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 (nobody)...and 477 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614128 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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i used to be catholic i think. but i just like the organ - its cool. |
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my ancestors used to be catholic, protestant, ortodoh, islamic and jew. it gives me plenty of choice. i choose life. no religion thanx. |
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werd |
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But organised religion IS shit! ;-) |
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LMAO! And there, ladeeeeez and gents, is the problem with religion in a nutshell... |
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Whatever gets you through the night it's alright, it's alright It' your money or your life it's alright, it's alright Don't need a sword to cut thru flowers oh no, oh no Whatever gets you thru your life it's alright, it's alright Do it wrong or do it right it's alright, it's alright Don't need a watch to waste your time oh no, oh no Hold me darling come on listen to me I won't do you no harm Trust me darling come on listen to me, come on listen to me Come on listen listen Whatever gets you to the light it's alright, it's alright Out the blue or out of sight alright, alright Don't need a gun to blow your mind oh no, oh no Hold me darling come on listen to me I won't do you no harm Trust me darling come on listen to me, come on listen to me Come on listen listen |
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one of my least favourite Lennon tracks |
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Yep, same with heaven. I've had difficulty debating this point with other Christians despite it being quite clear in the bible that judgement day hasn't happened yet... |
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I've never met a Christian who's actually studied their holy book. Not that I'm saying there aren't any -- I just haven't met any of them yet |
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Why do you suppose we are not just another animal on this planet that by astronomical coincidence has formed? Just because we can think? Can we think because there is god, or is there god because we can think? I go with the latter. And what is this interesting surprise? Rapture? You've been watching too many Kirk Cameron movies. |
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And by the way, the Earth is billions of years old, not thousands like it says in the bible. Fuck! |
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Yeah, I see people reading the bible on their lunch breaks and shit (I live in Florida) |
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fleetmouse > excellent link!! ^^ 30. ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (II) (1) God is love. (2) Love is blind. (3) Ray Charles is blind. (4) Therefore, Ray Charles is God. (5) Therefore, God exists. |
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THat breaks down by trying to link (3) to (2). Just because Love is blind, doesn't mean everything/everyone blind is love. |
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Yeah, but looking at a 2,000 year old religion is as amusing as looking at 200 year old science... The Tao of Physics is a really decent read - Draws comparissons between eastern philosophy (within taoism, budhhism and hinduism) and modern day quantum physics... There seems to be an incredibly sophisticated level of innate knowledge contained within religion. I know Christianity (for one) has been warped and abused, and used to control people, but the essense of all religion and the innate knowledge is what interests me... It's like humans have certain fundamental/innate beliefs, ideas and concepts, then rational thought comes along to question them - The only thing you know is that your rational thought is probably infantile and incredibly limited... It's always prooved to be in the past. If a bird started questioning it's innate knowledge of when and why to fly south, build a nest, etc... it would just wander around aimlessly and die - A bit like modern man... |
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Friend, you must put aside your doubt and come unto Ray Charles as a little child. |
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So is Stevie Wonder also God? |
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Um, welll, you see...... HERETIC |
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:P |
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Humans have innate knowledge of religion? No, I doubt it. If you raised a child in a way in which there was no trace of religion, I highly doubt they would acknowledge god. Granted, if humankind reset itself, and there was no longer religion, I think they would eventually invent one to answer all of life's unknowns. It would probably look very different though. Humans will always be weak and need guidance |
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The innate knowledge comes out over thousands of years and through masses of people - When you look at how religions and beliefs of early man evolved in different continents - It is clear the concept of God and eternal life is innate in the earliest human tribes - Maybe not on an individual level... I have felt it myself on LSD - I know that arguement wouldn't win anyone over, but taking LSD and psychedelics has helped me see these things clearly... They've also identified a region in the temporal lobes that is directly associated with religious experience... I am also convinced of an underlying intelligence in nature and evolution. |
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Let's see if marlowe floats! |
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My personal belief is that our concept of individuality is created by the brain - They have found that region too - And when it is depressed, through meditation/LSD/etc... your consiousness feels freed in some way - You become a part of all things again... So I don't believe you are ever alive/individual in the way your brain thinks you are - But death is basically like freeing the soul/concept of self, returning to Godhead? Maybe just a personified way of looking at it - But basically what I find most believable. |
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That's an interesting concept. I still believe only in man's ability to create answers when they are not available or evident. I think that is what religion is, at its root. I agree that in many societies it is used as mind control, etc, but at its very foundation it is more genuine. I don't need these answers. I feel like deep inside, I know the answers and it involves no higher being. It does involve a higher power, though. Nature is and always will be a higher power than any animal on this earth, even man. |
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The Bible is the most vaguely written thing ever. It's open to all manner of interpretations. The fact it's been translated as well from so many different languages and slightly altered in all manner of ways seems to escape most people. |
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And the fact that is has been editted and censored by the church. |
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Yep. |
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Yeah, you seem to have a good perspective on things - I've always thought it's more worthwhile to question "what is god?" rather than debate his existance... Physicists use the term God as an underlying cosmic order that runs through all things, religion generally has a more personified concept of God. I kind of go along with both of those ideas myself - Just different perspectives, not different Gods... Either way, the underlying cosmic order has created you, nature, your consiousness, etc... all from pure energy - On a 4 dimensional model it would appear as if the universe itself has become aware/consious - Maybe we're nodes in a consious network - Your own body (made up of millions of separate living entities/cells) and centeralised ego is your own proof of this. I actually am in favour of religion in many ways - Because most people don't have time to think about these issues, and it has been proven that people who believe in religion/spirituality are less likely to suffer from depression/anxiety/stress, cancer, heart problems, etc... quite recently in fact - And there are dedicated regions of the brain for it - So I'd imagine it's an essential part of being a human and living a healthy life - Otherwise your "Gods" become money, security, sex, intoxication, etc... Maybe I'm starting to sound a little too much like some kind of preacher! |
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"Otherwise your "Gods" become money, security, sex, intoxication, etc... " That implies a NEED to worship/follow. I'd like to read the source of the dedicated region in the brain if you could point me to it. I took some courses in university on anatomy, and in one course we studied the "geography" of the brain (not that I remember most of it). I don't doubt the part about having less of a chance of suffering from some diseases or conditions, but I think anyone of equivalent peace of mind would suffer equally less of this. If it were tied to religion, that would be like saying that your own body punishes you for not believing in god. |
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I think there's a need to find spiritual meaning in life - I honestly do believe that's innate - The un(/less)conditioned ancient civilisations all focused their lives on spirituality, from very earliest man - I think it's pretty likely that when you lack spiritual meaning in life you try to compensate by looking more towards intoxication, burrying yourself in work/study, escaping into the internet/games, an unnaturally high sex-drive (surely man doesn't really need to reproduce monthly/weekly/daily?!), etc... Apparently the way the human mind sees images in clouds is a demonstration of how it's always searching for meaning. I saw a documentary on UK tv a few months ago about religious experience being a brain function - It's somewhere in the temprol lobes I think! They stimulated it with electro-magnets and induced really profound experiences - To me, the physical evidence of religious experience actually reinforces my beliefs and sort of goes against the classic ideas that religion is created out of fear of death and all that... If God (whether he be a "he" or a cosmic order) is a part of everything, then the physical existance of these things doesn't make them any less valid to me. |
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Stimulating the lobes of the brain will surely present different results based on the subject of the experiment. I don't think that documentary would hold up well, but I haven't seen it. Maybe if they probed someone else in the same region of the brain, this person would have a sensation of flying or floating, rather than the perception of a divine experience. If I don't feel religious, am I then defective? Maybe I was born without this part of my temporal lobe. Now i'm worried ;) |
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theres no god, no jesus and religion is humanmade manipulation. |
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agreed. |
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"The un(/less)conditioned ancient civilisations all focused their lives on spirituality, from very earliest man" I attribute that 100% to tradition and parental influence. The first religion that caught on? I think maybe a radical developed a huge following of people that needed answers and the rest is history. A mass of humans can get very out of hand. |
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THat breaks down by trying to link (3) to (2). Just because Love is blind, doesn't mean everything/everyone blind is love. > NOOOO? really?!!?!!?! O_O ; P |
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Christianity is a forgiving religion. To claim that you are of Christian faith, and that the Lord gives forgiveness to those who ask has been abused by millions of people who continue to partake in evil action. Religion can act as a haven for anti-humanistic criminals who can justify their actions through the misuse of religious precepts, or through loopholes of forgiveness. Religion shouldn't be knocked - the ignorant folk who abuse their wisdom should be at fault here. |
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I don't believe in religion because I want to, or because I have to. It is illogical to assume that the universe was created by an explosion of mass and energy that never existed and was never crafted. If you can't see the inherent perfection of this universe, you should either look more carefully or go back to school. I believe in God because there is no other rational explanation. I encourage you to provide alternatives. |
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I don't go to church, I read the Bible with my own two eyes. |
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the groove. |
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How would you suggest that the Bible describe the evolution of life on this planet? Do you think people even living 300 years ago would understand the concept of archaic bacteria? Just because you know that the universe wasn't created in 7 days doesn't warrant that religion be regarded as completely false. Atgmartin, I used to be just like you. I would like you to suggest an alternative series of events that would explain the origins of this universe. Regardless of what we define as "God", do you honestly believe that this universe was unintentionally thrown together by accident? When you see someone helping a blind man across the road do you reflect for even one second on what has just transpired? Having a degree in science hasn't removed me from my religious beliefs, but rather enforced them. When you understand and reflect upon the perfect complexity of the human body, plant biology, or the ecosystem, you will soon realize that an intelligence far greater than ours has crafted a perfect cause and effect relationship. I'm not debating that our cognitive abilities may allow us to be aware of higher conciousness, but can you be certain that we "created" ideas of gods, heaven and hell, or merely that we are capable of being "aware" of them, as they have always existed. |
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"""I feel like deep inside, I know the answers and it involves no higher being.""" Are you certain of this separation between your mind / spirit and that of a higher consciousness? I guarantee that if we spoke with Buddha (you meditate more than 8 hours a day I assume), he would suggest something quite different. |
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I can agree with you there... |
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Surely you realize that God is not rational or logical at all. Rather, it is easy-to-digest and readily available, and has been instilled in you since childhood by parents and/or society. Look at it objectively. Say you were explaining this to a robot that understands only logic. It's circuits would start frying. Also, what was there before god? You're going to tell me "God has always been there," and I'm going to ask you how that is any more logical than the universe being formed by a mass of pure energy. |
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If you throw 1,000 monkeys onto typewriters, for an infinite amount of time, eventually, one of these monkeys will type Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet verbatim. |
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I have my interpretations of our purpose on this earth just like you do. I didn't have to meditate for 8 hours a day to come to my conclusions. All I had to do was look at every other species of life on this earth, and adopt a bit of humility for our species. All life had the same purpose. Not to serve a lord, or spread the word, or whatever it is religious people like to believe. It is simply to fuck. |
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and by "fuck" I mean procreate. |
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nah, they would die way before. waaay before. |
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Immortal monkeys. |
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now that's a crazy idea. thoose monkeys would run out of ink anyway. |
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Also, do you not believe that there are other planets in this infinite universe that sustain some form of life? I would say most likely. Maybe not in the Independence Day or Star Trek sense, but there has to be. Are they governed by a god? A planet's atmosphere is a mixture of gases. A planet's temperature is determined largely by its distance from the sun. At one time, there were single celled organisms. Now there are millions of species. If anything, single celled organisms are god: all life came from them. |
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