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 Now online (2)big Hyperflake ...and 297 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Im totally for PIRACY !? Jeezus, how many reords are there released per week ?! About 200 in the Dance / Techno field alone, and than theres tons of other stuff you could spend your money on, like Video games etc, so those sales figures (real or not) dont suprise me at all Ill keep on pirating, cuz I couldnt afford the CDs anyway. Unless your name is Britney Spears or Eminem you wont make much money with music. |
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it's not like you're helping anything either with your burned idm albums (cex for example). and you're the webmaster of an idm megasite? for shame... |
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just to clarify, the only "music piracy" i'm against is assholes who burn albums onto cd-r's and never buy real copies. buying promos (which i used to do on ebay to save $) isn't much better. neither way does an artist or label make money, and if they're on a major the poor sales figures may just get them dropped or their next album delayed or not funded by the label. i am not opposed to music downloading at all. just don't be cheap and not pay for an album if you wish to possess a hard copy of it (or keep it on your hard drive). |
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"assholes who burn albums onto cd-r's and never buy real copies" You think people who burn mp3's to cd-r are assholes, but you don't mind if those same people keep entire albums worth of mp3 on their harddrive? I don't really understand the difference... I'm not against the idea of downloading... as long as people would handle it merely as a way of getting to know cool music. If they like what they hear, they should go out to a store and buy the album. But as long as most people (not talking about the board here... people as in "the world population") are obviously not able to handle such a responsibility (because there are MANY assholes out there who never walk into a recordstore anymore, and all the albums they own are burnt mp3's... also p2p-sharing IS affecting albumsales)... i think it should be forbidden altogether until a proper format is found that only allows you to download music after you paid for it. "buying promos (which i used to do on ebay to save $) isn't much better." Just out of curiousity... how does that work exactly? I thought promos were given out by recordcompanies to radiostations and such? And were among fans of any artist a bit of a collector's item? (in other words: worth more than a normal version of the album... so how can you save money on buying promos?) I think essentially i agree with you... except you say: downloading is not wrong, as long as people use it with responsibility. Whilst i say: you can't trust people for this... forbid downloading until a solution is found that forces people to behave decent :-) |
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the most sad thing about all this is, that many of this idm musicians produce albums for popular artists which then make lots of money with it and sad is the fact that most of the audience doesnt even know who producers for their favourite artists are, so they dont check their music at all that is why idm should be much more promoted |
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Most promos that I've seen are simply the CD with a hole punched in the booklet or a notch in the case. These are sometimes common as dirt and don't hold much value. Promos that are different from any public release (Aphex's Words and Music for instance) are the ones that can become valuable. |
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that's not what i said, George. read when i said: i am not opposed to music downloading at all. just don't be cheap and not pay for an album if you wish to possess a hard copy of it (or keep it on your hard drive). i think music downloading is the best tool for introducing fools to music since the radio. i've bought probably 200+ albums because of mp3 downloading. i just see it as a problem when people (like Phobiazero) decide, hey, why not just BURN THE MP3'S ONTO CD-R's (or copy from a friend) instead of buying legit copies. that's real shady. |
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Phob burns copies for all his friends? |
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yea as for promos, what IW said. promos are sent to everyone from writers to radio stations to record stores. there are usually thousands of copies of an album in promo form (which is just the album w/ a hole punched in the barcode, or the barcode crossed out w/ a marker (warp does this), or a sticker that says "promo use only"), sometimes as many promo copies as there are commercial copies! so lots of people have them, and if they want to make a few bucks they can sell them to record stores or on eBay. most stores realize they're promos (free to the seller) so they buy them for less and then sell them for less. legally, promos can be recollected by the record company at any time. however, no companies do this. promo purchasing probably affect sales nearly as much as mp3 downloading when it comes to IDM and independent labels of all genres. |
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he has tons of burned cd's, mostly if not entirely electronic. and he runs this site. how fucked up is that? especially for someone with a real job (internet technology stuff) unlike us working class stiffs (hell, i don't even have a job to go back to next week). |
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I wouldn't know... but with the ever increasing easiness/speed to download and burn cds, you'd have to be a fucking angel not to burn the odd CD. If it's there for the taking, and you can spend your hard-earned cash on things that are important (like food, heating, travel) then it's hard to say no. I dunno, this topic is just pure fuckin radge, man. |
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he has tons of burned cd's, mostly if not entirely electronic. and he runs this site...... and happily accepts donations from people using his site. Not paying artists to listen to their music, receiving payments from people who use his artistic creation... hm... |
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yea but when you live in sweden where there's next to no poverty (and no homeless or starved) it's kind of a different story. and i don't know how many burned cd-r's he has (maybe he'll chime in in a minute, he's on) but it's more than just a small handful. probably a couple hundred, but who knows. i just know it's "a LOT." and George, yea, makes you wonder. i'm sure the other webmasters and moderators buy stuff tho. i know jand collects like a fiend, xceque too. |
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I've got tons of burned cds... but I've also bought about 2000 original cds as well. Now for instance, I've burned the entire works of Plaid and listen to them in work, until the CDs appear in HMV again, the only place I can get them (and I don't trust HMV's ordering service, haven't since a few bad experiences). As long as your collection is more than 50/50 in favour of originals for any given band, then fuck it. That's about as good as I get. |
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I misunderstood you i think.... "that's not what i said, George. read when i said: i am not opposed to music downloading at all. just don't be cheap and not pay for an album if you wish to possess a hard copy of it (or keep it on your hard drive). I read it like: "and if you're not going to buy the album, atleast keep it on your harddrive instead of burning a cd-copy of it." But now i see how you meant it :-) Yeah... i agree with you then. There's nothing wrong with people using it wisely, there's just something wrong with people who use it to avoid having to buy the actual cd.... real shady indeed. I'm sure the temptation must be enormous... what with all that free music floating around. But i think it's a shame people are apparantly so childish that they cannot resist abusing those possibilities. (btw, how do you underline stuff??) |
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underlined with <,u,> and <,/,u,>, minus the comma's "just to clarify, the only "music piracy" i'm against is assholes who burn albums onto cd-r's and never buy real copies" Yes, this and people who have like hundreds of albums that they never intend to buy, those are the people I want to find and cut off their genitals with a dull knife. I think its perfectly fine to have some mp3's of rare stuff that you could never find that they have stopped pressing or having a couple to mp3's to check out new artists, or to burn a mix cd with your favorite tunes for a friend, someone who wants to check out the genra, or something like that, its the people who abuse this who are the problem, like I said, the people who have hundreds upon hundreds of mp3's that they never will think of buying even if they see it in a music shop and a howdy doody fuck you too to jarworski 8^D |
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interesting stats, although, some (that peel session one, i own it too) don't seem right. i also could have sworn i read that geogaddi pushed 100,000 in the us. either way, its agood thing i buy my music. more people could do the same and i'm sure those numbers would be a good deal higher. |
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shit in what way? because the numbers arent high enough you mean? |
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I also own like 300+ Vinyls & CDs and still feel like that is nothing compared to what would like to have. Of course I have to DL Stuff before I get it cause in my town they have shit in the shops. So I have to Ebay & Amazon cause I order a lot of stuff just on the Idea that it might be good. Some Stuff like Venetian Snares(I die when I have to listen to that "Dance like your are selling nails" Snippet ;(() / Phoenecia is nearly impossible to find. So my point is : Better (any) Promotion and availability in germany. Plz. |
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bump...for evolume |
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i only read through the first few posts... and i hope someone pointed out, at some point during this thread that those zero sales figures probably indicate that the format was not available stateside... because they are always coupled with much larger sales figures... |
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those aren'tinteresting facts at all because there is no way to say what they represent what period of time - how many of those were returned etc - it's just meaningless figures |
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well, i dont think many copies are sold after the album is released, so it gives you a little clue i guess usually the biggest amount of copies are sold in the first six months or so ... |
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"well, i dont think many copies are sold after the album is released, so it gives you a little clue " hehe this is a funny statement...what i meant is that most copies are sold right after the album is released and not much more after it gets older |
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yeah maybe - none of you would make good detectives or historians as you've taken somethingyou've seen on a messageboard as a fact when it's not got any other evidence to back it up .. if this was a murder case - it'd be slung outta court |
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It usually works like a 'Nuclear half life' thing if it's any good, each 6 months sales half and half till they level off at how good the album actually is. |
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"best of aphex twin"? |
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it doesnt give you any facts...im not saying that, but it gives you some clue that it is not all that popular after all... and, i dont really care - i wish electronica artists would make more money tho! |
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and the figures that really matter are european sales... |
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ok...sorry for bringing this up :) |
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you should be dammit! i wanted figures... and you gave me figures... but we're bad detectives! this won't stand in court! who hired you?! |
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hehe, im not doing this anymore...from now on you're on your own |
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Don't listen to that evil little doll! I believe they are real figures, they look about right to me apart from a few discrepencies which could easily be a typo. |
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thats ok, i dont take things too seriously low figures for a big market like US especially since lot of electronica is purchased through internet... (i feel sorry for the artists) |
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bwoy watch it ..you've seen childsplay havent you ;) |
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thanks for bumping! |
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don't astrid, I have enough sleepless nights as it is... |
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it's a bit outdated now.. what did tricky disco sell, 2 copies last week? har har.. but seriously, these albums sell slow so they really depend on honest fans who will go to the store and buy it. musicians aren't charity cases, they just want their music to be appreciated (enough that they don't have to work another job). my opinion anyway. |
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i would assume that the verzions listed as zero are just versions that weren't actually stocked in us stores. the numbers seem right to me. "IDM" isn't very popular in general. even the big artists are still not promoted to get album sales. the real question is to compare these numbers to new numbers post file-sharing |
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those stats are bullshit -- quite a few of those releases have made charts, atleast college charts. i can count more people that I KNOW that have bought some of those releases new than are listed. |
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perhaps the didnt buy them via internet :) |
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does it say these are internet sales? maybe i cant read here, who knows. anyhow though, even if they are, i find them far-fetched. |
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actually it looks like those are records shop sales statistics...so no internet included (confused) |
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it's like trying to make sense out of nothing. just can't do anything with out of context statistics. |
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the list is the truth, just face it. All u stupid dick heads think that your favourite idm-star or whatever u call them is making money out of this better snap out of that fucking dream. THIS IS REALITY. And think about that the next time u download/steal from these artists. Yall a bunch of rich lazy ass greedy net nerds (u got got a connection so u cant be that poor), I hate yall ;) Do u really think Chris Clark live off his music...HEELLLL NAW. Just peep the interview at www.milkfactory.co.uk He didnt make a single dime of Clarence Park, and he got another job, ofcourse. No one is living on this shit except the top seven. So forget about your dreams making it in music, just make this for the love, for the joy, for the art and ofcourse for the cause. |
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sure, but chris clark can live on the streets for all i care |
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well maybe that was harsh.... but i really agree with "So forget about your dreams making it in music, just make this for the love, for the joy, for the art and ofcourse for the cause. " i buy albums mainly because i want them, not so much because i want jega to have his grocery money. but i just think if the artists cared so much they would go to labels that would release their work in quantities that aren't limited to 250 copies. not that warp really does this, but still. this doesn't seem like a genre where the artists are really that concerned with the cash flow, and i like that about it. it's about being PLAYERS. |
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Im a artist myself (with a record deal and got some knowledge about this "shit" the music biz) and I thought those idm sales figures would be even lower than that. I got surprised when I saw that it was only US, I thougt it was the total sales figures. |
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"i buy albums mainly because i want them, not so much because i want jega to have his grocery money." I totally agree, there is a lot of shit electronic music. But when im looking at all your lists at Slsk I see a shit loads of albums that u must feel or else u would have deleted them, right? "but i just think if the artists cared so much they would go to labels that would release their work in quantities that aren't limited to 250 copies." Hehehehehe oh my god, u kidding right??All the labels saying is “Give me three hit/pop radio friendly singles” or else we dont care. And they dont care about instrumental music, if its not a massive soundtrack to the latest blockbuster. Look at how man fans of "idm" their is (I hate that term) and look how many supporting the music. the idm fans are the worst, im telling you, look at the support of the bling bling rappers in the south, u got these dirt poor ghetto children from the gutter starving trying to hustle doing whatever i takes just to get the latest Cash Money record (they dont got money, but they support, they do whatever i takes)!!!! I mean we could easily push those figures if we want to. peace |
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Christ this thread is all over the place. Lets face it. To make money from this music you have to become a big name "star". That's not going to happen that much really. This genre of music is not that popular. I don't care and neither should you. These sales figures are bollocks though. Any sales figures that don't incorporate every way of buying the item new is worth shit. I think it's very hard to give an exact figure. It's hard to find anything by these people in a normal record store. I lost count of the number of shops I went in trying to find a Venetian Snares album. That's why most of my stuff is bought off of the internet. I came to this place with a complete lack of knowledge on electronic music. I had heard Come to Daddy and Windowlicker. That's it. I know have a good knowledge of the genre and a large collection of vinyl and CDs relating to it. I also have a large collection fo MP3s of artists stuff that I haven't bought. That's not to say that I won't buy it though. I've downloaded loads of stuff as I want to hear it but it's not that easy to get it and I'm fed up searching. The fact that it's easier to download it than get it to buy speaks volumes about the labels. I would love to order every album that I wanted from WarpMART but I can't. I buy a lot of stuff off of eBay. No money going to the artist there, does that make it a bad thing? In theory you could buy every release by an artist without having given them a penny using eBay. Another thing is that a lot of this genres releases are limited. Global Goons new album is limited for instance. So when that's sold out but there's more people who want it. What happens then? They could buy it off of eBay maybe but then no money would go to the artist. They could download it then. Oh wait, no money to the artist. What do you do then? Not hear it? |
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