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I think all the numbers with the zeros are other forms of the album, such as vinyl. No one buys vinyl in America, we are about technology! Bah. And I think more IDM artists make it off of their money than you think. I know Aphex has more than a million dollars, so he definatly makes enough. You have to remember that they also get loads of cash to Dj and play live. That money goes straight to them, doesn't get filtered by their record company also. So they can get money fairly easy... |
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Well yeah, playing, and djing, and stuff gets more money. I meant from record sales, they arent making a living. |
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but i still dont think that extra stuff is enough to get by on |
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Interesting stuff to think about anyway, regardless of weather its fabricated or not, weather it has any credibility I'd imagine that people on warp could get enough money with shows, dj sets, releases, advertising..... I would think they could have a fairly comfortable lifestyle. |
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funny, if a rock band sells 9,000 copies they're nobodies (and if they are someone, their album is perceived as a total bomb due to the sales), but if it's a well known electronic artist we're all supposed to think that's a great number, or worse yet, pretend that only 9,000 people heard the album and liked it. |
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That's another point...there's a stigma attached to musicians who don't use or introduce the sound of an electric guitar in their music...anything done by computer is considered "cold" and "inhuman"... (of course, without computers, much of today's Top 40 music would hardly sound as good...) :) |
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I think it is a great number... for the sole reason that, thats 9000 people who are listening. Imagine if you sold a record, and 9000 people bought it, wouldnt that be flattering? I know id be happy. Thats 9000 people youve connected with. Its not alot, but it is. |
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Yeah, if your an "independent" label...if you're in a larger record company, though, you might not be employed long...(e.g. Wilco) :\ |
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A lot of rock bands have to split the profits amognst band members, managers, studio time, roadie's, light and sound tech's... With this genra: "IDM"/braindance, drill, glitch, whatever you want to call it, you cut out a lot of that other stuff that eats into profit, its just the manager and promotional costs mostly, so more profit is going to the artist, a considerable amount more then a typical rock band selling 9000 copies. Its a different game |
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well yeah... but im not talking about in a market kinda way. Just on a emotional/personal kind of way 9000 people who spent money to buy your CD, cause your music means something to them... |
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9000 is pretty sad if you've been in this music game for a decade plus. |
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think about it: with artists with as big reputations as autechre, BoC, mu-ziq, etc., if they sell less than 10,000 copies in the US that's fucked! think of how many americans are on this very board. it should show you how huge a problem piracy and promo-buying is among these fans. |
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yeah, I know from a market stand point. but you dont find it flattering that 9000 people would have listened to your music and enjoyed it? Its quality, not quantity. |
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wait. I see what you mean. |
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These numbers are totally unverifiable. I remember reading a press release from Sire records that Windowlicker had sold more then 300,000 copies worldwide. |
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Reputations in the _UK_, where they are likely to perform more often and are more visible... And Americans are trained to look for bargains...why pay full price when you can get for half price... (BTW, don't slag off on me...I've bought quite a bit from Warpmart, Skam, HMV, etc.) |
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9000 X 12.00 (average record price).... I dont think thats anything to complain about... even when the promotion fee's are added... Piracy is a HUGE problem, people need to realize ESPECIALLY with independant label's, you HAVE to support artists you enjoy, if you pirate you are stealing creative work that people have worked hard on, stealing doesnt help promote good art. Gawd, if I ever sold 9000 records in my life.... I would fall over and die because of the immense joy and die with this massive smile on my face w00t! |
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you understand me. |
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12.00 (average record price).... I'm assuming that's British Pounds...I want to know what shop you buying from if that's American Dollars (and I want to know what part of Canada + a map if that's Canadian Dollars). ;) |
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i know IDM is bigger over the pond but i also know that it has a huge following here as well. because we have such a bigger population i'd even dare to say that there are twice as many IDM fans in the states than in the UK. i mean you have to factor in college students (and there are SO many colleges), private high schools, coffee shop types, nerds, punks, etc. not to rub anyone the wrong way. i agree people are all about bargain hunting and don't realize (or care) that artists are getting fucked when they don't purchase their albums (legitimately) but it shouldn't be THIS bad. i'm sure there's at least 1,000,000 IDM fans in the US, and that's my word. |
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Totally Zeus, its an artists dream come true to know you reaced that many people, I would have massive heart faluire from the happiness! hahaha, thats very funny DaWeeze, very presumptious that you assume and generalize all americans that way "Come on.... you know your the girl of my dreams....." - Arnold Swartzenagger ROXORZ! w00t! |
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i million? I find that hard to fathom. 1 million people who own a CD or two of IDM, perhaps... but actual fan? |
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and zeus of course i think it's great that 9,000 (really more when you consider the uncountable many who listen via mp3's or promo copies) appreciate an album. it is a warm fuzzy feeling and i am not taking the piss. but you have to also consider that this isn't just a hobby for them but their career, and to make enough money for themselves (let alone their families) they need to sell albums to everyone who listens. that's why sales figures like these both reassure me (that i'm right) and piss me off (cos i'm, again, right.... in this situation, before some of you jump in with insults). |
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DaWeeze, thats factoring in the price of single's, ep's, full and double LP's and full and double CD's Ha Cha CHA |
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1,000,000 being people who've heard IDM and liked it. you can be a fan of rock music if you're 7 and don't own any albums. it's just what you like. it doesn't have to be exclusive. all i'm saying is that there's got to be at least 1,000,000 people out there who have heard IDM and know enough about what they heard to locate it in a store. i mean honestly, look through people's files on p2p networks (and i don't just mean soulseek) and you'll see a couple aphex twin tracks, a couple plaid, a couple squarepusher, etc. |
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"but you have to also consider that this isn't just a hobby for them but their career, and to make enough money for themselves (let alone their families) they need to sell albums to everyone who listens." yes, I agree totally. Im not defending illegal downloading, if thats the impression I gave. I was merely seperating money out of the picture for a moment. No real purpose... just kinda like "but if you really think about it 9000 people is alot..." It does bother me a great deal people dont pay for albums. but as I plan on goin into releasing my music, I am completly aware of piracy, and I accept that I will never make enough money to live on, based solely on record sales (and the fact that IDM doesnt have a huge audience). Im just doing it for the enjoyment of doing it. Thats why Im going to college... so I can get a real job that pays. I dont know what my point was... i got sidetracked. but basically, yeah. I agree with you. |
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Yea, titsworth is right, stop pirating independant music, CUNTS! Get out and spend some money on *gasp* on something you enjoy *gasp* and not being cheap you pirates! How do you expect a genra to grow with people stealing music ? And no there is NO excuse now, if you have internet access and you have paypal, or whatever... credit card... whatever... you can get this stuff. |
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ok, then ill buy that number. |
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wow, i thought the numbers were pretty low, but it all makes sense to me if it's US only sales. and 1 000 000 idm fans in the US sounds pretty high, if i compare that number proportionatly to how many people i know in real life that know about idm. but perhaps the scene is much more important over there. |
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Mickey Mouse, Zeus and all the other twats who call people who download music cunts - two words. Fuck. Off. |
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But think of all the European sales and Japan too. |
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Those figures are just bullocks according to a reliable source. Pure randomness! |
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blow me |
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wouldnt be suprised. But hey, it sparked an interesting discussion. |
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Judging by the state of your folically challenged face you don't get many offers... but no thanks, maybe later, saint. |
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I didn't believe those numbers for one second... and I've smelled some horse shit in my day, so I know when it's around! |
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so clever you are. |
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I usually download some first if I'm iffy about a release, and if I like it, then I'll go and buy it (with some exeptions like anticipated new releases). This is totally fair and acceptable to me since I don't believe I should pay for something I end up not liking. |
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sounds cool - most sites ofe some form of internet listening nowdays anyway |
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agreed. im talking about selfish like pricks who dont pay for the music at all, because they are too busy caring about themselves to realize that without a paying audience, the artist gets no income, hence record labels wont release more work, hence no more good music. O_O |
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yeash it's stealing basically - and unkind - people should get paid for thier work - mos people wou;dn't like it if their boss suddenly turned around and said he wasn't gonnapay em for a days work |
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exactly |
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How do you know that isn't my situation? If you saw the thread I made earlier, I said one of the cons about being into IDM is the fact I can't get the music. I can't order from Warpmart because my bankcard is unsuitable. If you saw the files I share on soulseek, most of them are bootlegs of underground rock bands. OH WAIT you were too busy trying to look all angelic for buying cds and not considering the fact that not everyone lives in the capital of their country. I've bought so many shit albums in the past that now I have access to the internet, of course I'm going to try before I buy. And I DO buy, everyone does to some degree. It's just we don't all have rich daddys to pay for them, some of us work shit paid jobs in shit cities. Keep trying to feign intelligence, I find the results amazingly funny. |
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Are we SURE that these numbers don't represent a hand full of record store chains only... ??? check your sources peeps. anyway... The truth is that no matter what the numbers are, us kidz shouldn't be stealing from our fav artists. Sure DL some tracks and get the idea, but if you like it enough to keep the mp3s, you need to buy the LP/CD. No question. Shame on all who don't. Feel guilty now! heh-heh... Seriously, we should all help out this electronic movement by buying a CD/LP this week. Warpmart is good. But don't forget about the other cool sources on the web too... Sometimes they have records Warp don't have. Like Forced Exposure, Opal Music, Throb Records, Rough Trade. <--- Top web locations. etc etc ... ta ta |
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There is always a way to find music. I lived in suburban Virginia growing up, but I still found the CDs I wanted. And like I said, its cool to try before you buy. And my "daddy" doesnt pay for my stuff. I work a shit job too. I install phone jacks, and fix phones. Sure, I go to college, and this is just a temp job, but I work for my money as well. If you want to be bitter that I am in the position to attend college, go ahead. Keep trying to sound righteous, its even funnier. |
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I am EXTREMELY bitter yes... how I would love to attend college in the US *rolls eyes* I earn more than most of the graduates I know. That's fucked up. I'm not on any kind of speaking the truth trip here. I just hate people painting things in broad strokes. Anyway, enough mud slinging, there's been plenty of that in the past already. |
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well, you seem bitter about something but agreed. Discussion ended. |
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I totally agree with zeus and titsworth and all the other folks who spoke against piracy in this thread :-) I used to think this board was completely filled with musicpirates, but after many discussions about it, i get the impression most (or at least half) of the people here download music just to get to know new music... try before they buy. Which makes me happy :-) This is the right way to go! Now that i've got a job i can afford to buy maybe a couple of cd's each month... but when i was still in school i also had to save up for a cd... buy maybe one album per 2 months. Which sucked ofcourse... and it feels unfair. But it's no excuse to go steal the music of the internet instead. Artists have a right to make a living out of their art... especially if many people like it. It pisses me off when people say "oh, it's their choice to be a musician, and why should i feel responsible? Get a real job blah blah..." If you feel that way: fine. But then don't listen to the music either! |
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Most people I know here in the US order this sort of music directly. I suspect the numbers would easily double or triple if considered. |
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i always try before i buy but, boy do I buy. I have a list of like 100 more cds that I want to get eventually(on top of the 200 or so cds i have already, all legitimately pruchased by the way). and thats on top of all the stuff that ive never heard that i might possibly buy. |
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