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Although some Christians actually believe that their Idol was born on December 25th, and crucified at Easter Time and thus resurrected two days later, most of us are aware that these dates are arbitrary. If you want to know why, read on. Around Easter Time was the time when all the old tribes held their Spring Festivals and Rites. Amongst many of their beliefs, there was included one which stated that at this time their particular God was annually killed and afterward resurrected three days after. Adonis and Osiris comply (in some of their mythological tales) to this. December 25th, which is roughly (or close to) the shortest day, was believed to mark the end of Death, and the advent of rebirth - thus many Vegetaion Gods (which basically most major Gods/Goddesses were to begin with before time added humanity and character to them) were reborn annually at about this time. To convert more people to their hodgepodge religion, the Roman Elders decided to mark these two dates as the official birth and crucifiction of their Christ, so the people would feel more comfortable in converting to Christianity. And, of course, the Christmas Tree also came about for a like reason, in that Trees have been worshipped since time imemorial, and the Christmas Tree is a token of this Pagan past. So we have a glimpse at how religion may distort a mortal man and add mythological tenets to him. Jesus Christ was a man who was thrust into the role of a Corn-God, a latter day Osiris. Tritely, of course, everytime a Christian says 'Amen', they are also invoking that other Great Egyptian deity, Amen / Amoun / Amoun-Ra. |
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Those coincidences are machinations of the Father of Lies and do nothing to disprove the divinity of Christ. |
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i find rreligious historry verry interresting. |
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yes, that is the reason one can never argue with a Christian - it is always 'The Work of Satan' and that's that. . . |
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there are other, more "impressive" things about Jesus Christ... for example, the miracle of water turned into wine : some people found out that maybe it wasn't a miracle at all, but just Jesus having found out that water added to the empty wine jars would mix the water with the remaining lees of the wine, and that could restitute an ersatz for wine... ...and other stuff like that. think what you want of it. : ) |
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I get more mileage out of telling them I'm not superstitious - lets 'em know I esteem their beliefs the same as black cats and palm reading. |
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The question concerning the so-called miracles of Jesus will be readily explained if one considers that what we know as the Bible comes to us via Greek Translations. Whereas the Hebrews were very metaphorical people, the Greeks were very Literal. To give one instance: Lazarus. Now, in many Brotherhoods, if a brother leaves the fraternity, he is said to be dead -- if, as history indicates, Jesus (or Yoshua) was a member of a secret brotherhood whose aim was to rid the Middle East of the Romans, and Lazarus was one of the members who lost his nerve and quit, this would explain his 'death'. Yoshua then managed to convince Lazarus to have strength and rejoin the brotherhood, to be 'risen from the dead.' I believe that Yoshua would have been a very good talker, and this is one of the reasons he was fairly famed at this time. Even today, there are masonic rites (and the masons' family tree predates Christianity, and many are traced back to Antiquarian Egyptian Times - (incidentally, it is believed that Yoshua's brotherhood also included rites of initiation that stemmed back to Egyptian times - the story of Moses is an interesting one to study). So we have a simple non-supernatural explaination for the Resurrection of Lazarus. |
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When is someone going to prove the existence of Christ? and God? |
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'Jesus Christ' is a known historical figure. The gods evolved generally like this: fetishism - animism - spiritism - deism |
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jesus was a hippy |
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no, he was almost the antithesis of a hippie. He was a freedom fighter - he was more like che guevara than a hippie. |
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:D i was just saying some random stuff but you are right, religion distorts all the facts |
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Round about the same time they prove the existence of leprechauns, dragons and Santa Claus. |
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nobody fucks with the jesus. |
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You should also know that 'Barrabas' (the 'thief' who was crucified along with Jesus, and whose name means the same as Jesus'), is believed to have been Yoshua's brother. |
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what about the Romans? |
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its a fact that religion is a human invention |
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what about them? |
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Is there a book I can read more about this? |
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i war ship the lemur headed dark gods who's lair is in the foggy abyss. |
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The thing I love about a lot of Christians is that they'll tell you not to believe everything you read in a book. When you point out that the Bible is a book and they believe everything in it they say "But it's the words of God" I ask them how they know it. "It says in the Bible." I can't fathom the logic. It's like a mobius strip talking to them. This isn't all of them. Just some fanatics. |
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what does religion have to do with logic? |
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There is a good book you can read - in fact, I know there is an edition of it available to read online (it is long). this book supplies some of the information I have discussed here, namely the first post. I cannot remember the other texts I've read detailing the life of the historical figure of Yoshua... |
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Thanks mate :) epohs: plenty i think. |
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taking a leap of faith, and putting all your trust in something you can neither proove nor disprove is the antithesis of logic. |
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Logic isn't real. This is an important truth. Don't shun all religions because of one such as Christianity, which is merely a mozaic of conflicting ideas and stolen imagery. |
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Yes, don't let Christianity shake your faith in Breegor the Unspeakable. |
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you are missing a key step before 18th century deism and enlightenment: Theism. God as omnipotent, good and omnipresent in the lives of all men and things. Deism simply rid God of any care and action upon the world. I see you are interesting in a demystified vision of Jesus, so I am: i recommend you read a very good book by TOLSTOY (hehe!) called the Gospel in Brief. it was Wittgenstein's favourite book. Tolstoy basically goes back to the greek/syrian roots of christianity and rids the gospels of myths, miracles and falsity. He believes the Lord's Prayer, from The Sermon on the Mount is perhaps the only true and perfect teaching of Christ. |
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"merely a mozaic of conflicting ideas and stolen imagery" this is how i see almost all religion. not that i see this as necessarily a bad thing. most religions seem to be an amalgamation of very similar ideals and myths. the product of thousands and thousands of years of humans trying to make sense out of their experiences. of course they are going to borrow themes from other places that make sense to them, and fit into their believe structures. as far as the confliction... well, find a person of any religion, and i'll find another person within the same religion who belives quite differently from them. i doubt conflicting beliefs are unique to chrisianity. i firmly believe that most who blast cristianity as 'worse' than other religions are trying to subvert the dominant paradigm. giving credence to lesser known, more obscure religions because of their obsurity... rooting for the underdog so to speak. |
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I think people take pleasure in blasting christianity as it is the most institutionalized and political world religion. Most belief groups are organized in churches where hierarchy and spiritual superiority are encouraged and the largest are true ecclesiastic powerhouses with hundreds of different levels of church men and organisational units. Christinaity has also lost alot of its simplicity through the ages: catholicism seeked to justify its dogma through numerous intellectual twists and the many variations of the official belief system had to be forced upon simple people. Faith has become convoluted. |
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Well both had beards but Jesus never wore a beret or smoked cigars. He preferred Burberry baseball caps and Embassy No.1 |
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for some reason I read this thread as "some truths about 'Jedi Chris' " Boy was I confused |
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I've always been tought that the Bible was a story, not meant to be taken literaly. However, lately I have heard a man preech very well that the Bible is in fact completely true text, and is the key to being "Saved" as he calls it. ------------- I personally find the Bible, which I have not read in it's entirety yet, though I mean to, to be a good guide book for anyone looking to live a moral life. In the same sense that reading the Qu'arn (sp?) would also be good reading for someone to live a moral life. You bring up good points marlowe, things I have been thinking about more and more lately. |
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Any morality should be purely human and should not require a divine justification or basis. |
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*nods* |
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I don't understand why you felt the need to disagree with what I said. The books I mentioned well outline what a moral life is considered. You can disagree or not, but if you think you alone determine what is moral and not, and stick a high thumb to the world that has come before you and what has been learned, I won't even have this conversation. |
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in fact, your kind of thinking is the same as my presidents. Fuck the past, and fuck what anyone says, no justification and no basis. |
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plus, christians have really stupid hairstyles... like it's still the 80's or some shit. |
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last six posts really killed an otherwise good thread. sorry marlowe |
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well you should have kept you hair on boyo! I wasn't making a major anti-christian remark, i was simply saying that there is a real danger in using god as a basis for human morality no matter what the ethical system is. Morality should be transparent and accessible to all, non-believers included. If I do not believe in good how can accept that i should lead a good life in order to reach the kingdom of heaven? |
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and i don't see why i am thinking like the fuckers who run your country: they use god as a justification for the atrocities they commit, that exactly what i stand against! Maybe you didn't understand the terms "basis" and "justification"? |
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Blatant, I think you are just referring specifically to the New Testement -- if we followed the Old Testement we'd all be out fucking our sisters and sacrificing our children! |
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lol!!! |
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i was refereing to the generally morality explained in a non religious fashion in most sacred text. just the morality, not the religion, just reading for the lessons and examples of how to live a good live. |
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live = life |
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I still don't understand why people are so immature, even as adults, that they need sky mommies and sky daddies to tell them to be nice to each other. |
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in the bible, the religious text you were referring to, morality is inseperable from the belief in and worship of a supreme being. |
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listen, you didn't read what I said at all. I again refer to all religious text as a good guide to living a moral life. It is not Christian, Buddhist, or anything. It's compeltely non-religious. However, the relgious foundations in a number of faiths stress treating all people with respect, loving your mother and father, etc. please read what I said before you try and pick apart an opinion. Taken with faith or without, all relgious texts provide a good baseline for a moral life. |
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in this country we need a jury and group of lawyers to tell us how to treat each other. a million dollar settlement shows everyone else how to live. it's stupid and I'm sick of it, but if you think people are in any way cappable of determining what is right and wrong with no prior knowledge, then this coversation is moot from the start. |
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form a society to end it all ! don't give up ! |
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