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ok, i see what you are getting at, but my point is that all religious texts point at a particular force/energy/supreme being higher entity as a NECESSARY belief/object of worship IN ORDER to lead a good life. For example, it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for a muslim to believe in Allah in order to lead a good life and listen to Him in order receive council. Don't get me wrong, i understand what you are saying but it inevitably clashes with the belief systems and texts you wish to learn from as these stipulate once again that religiousness of many forms is a necessary component of any ethic. |
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yeah it is sad, we need a simple ethic that every can live by that would rid our societies of all artificial forms of repressive morality. But sadly your project is utopian and... lets be pragmatic... until all humans embrace this universal ethic and respect it to the fullest, our imperfect means of trial and punishment are all we have seperating us from chaos. |
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ok, cool, I didn't think I was being vague, but it happens. I agree with you as well though, to seperate religion from religious teachings causes problems straight away. The reason I mentioned all this is that a well rounded student might hopefully be versed in a few different religions and cultures as it seems marlowe is, and try and convice people there IS a happy medium. I don't know, I wish everyone was born with an inate ability to treat others nicely, but what fun would the world be then..........*sigh* |
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i know till the day I die, i will not give up on this world. I know that is my life's purpose, and while utopia might be impossible, I think people can make things a lot better, and I know that's all I live for. |
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Ah but thats the xltronic project isn't it? To unite pure spirited human beings around a common passion for a wonderful art form and communicate their love for one another and enthusiasm about virtually living together? :-) |
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lol, maybe, just maybe I know I'll die when something is accomplished, and I hope it's nothing short of people in this world changing everything. |
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Hehe.. 'Corn-God' :D |
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so-called christians and non-christians alike speak authoritatively of that which they have no knowledge. derision and attacks on other people are a false face to hide one's own flaws. identifying hypocrites who claim to represent the gospel and identifying the flaws in their models says nothing about the gospel itself. you who attack the flawed models of your peers, your models are just as distorted and incomplete. to you, "truth" is a badge of honor. "moral behavior" is insincere and therefore meaningless unless it is motivated by an understanding of the reason one chooses the behavior. if the reason is not derived from the source of one's existence, it will be flawed. there are very good reasons for not simply "going through the motions." "history is fables agreed upon." -voltaire |
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gossip |
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Lots of bible-reading, church-attending people shoplift, kill, beat the shit out of their wives. What a great world we live in. |
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people always quote voltaire when they want to appear clever, isn't that odd. Anyway, he never said THAT, he wrote something in French, which has afterward been translated as 'history is fables agreed upon'. |
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attacking people's major beliefs that bring them happiness, comfort, and hope is totally pathetic, as are the people that do it. |
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not when the people are being manipulated and lied to. Comfort is cold indeed when based on distortions and fabrications. It even says in the bible... "...And the Truth shall set you Free". |
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did you know that mathematical and physical theories can only ever be considered theories and not true laws because there can never be 100% certainty that it'll always happen the same way? even though in practice they hold true every time. christianity is something that billions of people in the world believe in and they're not going to stop because they can't prove without a doubt that what they believe is true. it just IS and you believe it or you don't. shame on anyone who tries to take away from someone else's beliefs. what's next, proving that blacks are inferior, that homosexuals are a genetic mistake, etc.? why is it that for people like you, race, gender, class, nationality, etc. are sacred (jokes aside) but when it comes to religion you feel justified to tear down someone else's heartfelt beliefs? don't you see something wrong with that? |
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yes, I know that nothing can be 100% proved -- but with mathematical theories, when they are disproved, they move on to different theories - they don't change reality to fit their theories. I thought you were a believer in Truth, travis - so why is Religion and Religious Belief exempt for you? I'm not tearing down their beliefs - I was pointing out how a lot of the myth surrounding Jesus (who I owned to be an Historical Figure) was taken from Ancient Religions and Magical Ceremonies. . . that's not the same as saying 'Your Religion Is False'. |
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because christianity IS truth. i accept other people believing different religions or no religion at all. too bad you can't do the same thing. (note: the most important mathematical theories are still not considered laws even if they're referred to as such. same with physics. you can never know if what has happened since the dawn of time will happen tomorrow or next year. obviously it will but you can't truly "know" something because no theory can ever be said to work every single time.) |
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very interesting views/information here.. too bad i entered this topic, misreading it as "some truths about 'Jedi Chris'" |
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How can Christianity possibly 'BE' truth, when so many of its doctrines were either 01) dropped for political reasons 500 years ago 02) adopted for political reasons 500 years ago If Christianity IS truth, then why are there so many differing branches - if it is, as it claims, the ONE true faith, then why is it so interdenominational, and why are Catholics blowing up Protestants and vice versa. Belief itself doesn't equal truth, it equals perception. And if that perception is being manipulated, or if it based on plainly provable untruths, then these untruths should be known, don't you think? After all, the Christian God started life as a minor Hebrew War-God. |
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hello, read what i said about not all things being provable but true nonetheless. anyone can open an encyclopedia or go on google and get gads of TRUE facts about christianity but the fundamental truths prevail. "God is still love, Jesus still died for our sins, there is still an afterlife, Christianity still is a guiding light in life, etc." believe it or don't but know that there isn't a piece of trivia in the world that you can pull up that could possibly disprove these things. i'm through with this discussion because it's mindblowing that someone can exert so much negative energy to make people feel bad about who they are while simultaneously believing that you're doing good. |
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all I ever did was shed light on some of the rituals of Christianity, giving them a Historical Perspective. btw, it isn't a fact that God is Love (he isn't - it isn't loving to commit genocide). Like I said, the Christian God started life as a minor Hebrew War God. If a person is going to commit themselves to a religion, they should find out all they can about said religion. And why is classed 'negative' to propogate certain truths about Christian History and Development? |
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"people always quote voltaire when they want to appear clever, isn't that odd. Anyway, he never said THAT, he wrote something in French, which has afterward been translated as 'history is fables agreed upon'." perhaps not assuming that all on the messageboard speak french and creating the impression of desiring to be perceived as clever are better than nitpicking and insults. |
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who else came here along with marlowe to shed light for us? |
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yes, I was being light-hearted when I wrote that. Too bad you're taking it like an Anal cunt |
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Ok okay, this has gone a bit too far... what the hell is all this Christianity is truth nonsense? The first christians differ greatly from the mainstream branches of faith that we know today: aryans denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, nestorians denied the double nature of Jesus Christ, monphysites denied any human attribute in Christ, Gnostics denied the validity of the cruxifiction, worship of the cross and the very value of faith. What we believe to be the pure doctrine of Christianity was created INTELLECTUALLY and not on the basis of any revelation by the Greek Elders and Fathers of the Church. Orginally philosophical contructs such as the very perverse Trinity (triple nature of Christ) meant nothing the overwhelming majority of Christians or followers of Christ's word. Doctrines such as the inviobility of the pope are modern 19th century as are many interpretations of the gospel. Now please don't give me any Christianity is truth nonsense. No truth is purely imagined or built up mentally by a small hermetic group of intellectually similar church men! |
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Got something against the French? Want my fist up your arse funny boy? |
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Blah blah, race issues, blah blah all the fucking time. Not everything is about race. |
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since when is "French" a race? lol! |
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Yeah yeah yeah, the thing you have to take into account is that Christianity was - wait, I don't give a fuck. Oh well. |
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That wasn't actually aimed at your post sir. Just a general statement in response to something that was brought up. My slow connection made it arrive late. |
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okay :-) |
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he's not referring to your post, MistahKurtz - I believe he's referring to one of Travis' earlier posts |
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Toxie? |
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god dammit i keep reading this topic as "the truth about jedi chris" |
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I've heard he's God in the b....... Sorry. |
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bathroom? |
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NO ! |
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bordello? |
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(note: the most important mathematical theories are still not considered laws even if they're referred to as such. same with physics. you can never know if what has happened since the dawn of time will happen tomorrow or next year. obviously it will but you can't truly "know" something because no theory can ever be said to work every single time.) So because it is impossible to know some things or all things with an absolute degree of certainty, total rubbish just might be true if you look at it out of the corner of your eye and squint a bit after you've had a few beers, is that it? |
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I love subjective reality. |
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i find it very interesting that mostly non-christians bring up the topic of God and Jesus on this board. most interesting indeed. |
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yes that ots but there are undeniable truths that stand alone and are not of the same nature as the law of physics or huamn predictions: the statement "i exist" for example is one of them. Or "there is a hand in front of me" if there is a hand in front of me. The existence of a human reality (Heidegger calls it Dasein) is absolute and undeniable (this isn't the same this as "I think therefore i am" that is more dubious). |
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I agree with you, I'm just making the point that he's reducing knowability to a false dichotomy - an impossible ideal of certainty on the one hand versus all human "knowledge" (including science, astrology and Christianity) on the other, with no appreciation of the degree of knowability of a given topic. By this trick, science is reduced to the level of superstition. |
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totally agree, that post-modernism for ya, the trick is to establish a different criteria for truth other than logic/reason. That of course is bloody hard and all scientific truths require a sort of "leap of faith" (to quote Kierkegaard oh aren't i such a pretentious git!) in order to accept them as such. Maybe the only way out is the mystical? |
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Well in a sense it is mystical or occult - "truth" to the postmodernist is anchored by the unquestioned, unexamined authority of the critic - it's a worse form of idolatry than MTV. In any case philosophically I'm a naive realist though I'm aware that there are more baroque modes of perception available... :D (the term naive realist was funnier when Korben Dallas and I had our Basquiat and Warhol avatars) |
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"baroque modes of perception" i like that! In my early introduction to philosophy school books they always used to say "common sense" realism! Always wondered what the hell "common sense" is supposed to mean there, an ideology accepted by the masses stipulating that there is one external reality and that i can perceive it ? or maybe a view of things that only the "sensical" have espoused and that turns out to be oh so common in the end! Okay now i don't know what i'm going on about so i'll shut up... leave you on a nice quote: "We must gain the mystical ability to live without a 'why'" ---Meister Eckhart |
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I love when people mention how there is an afterlife, yet they've never experienced an afterlife, nor seen it. There is no way to prove that there is an afterlife, just as there is no way to prove a before-life. |
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funny how faith works, isn't it? |
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oh yeah - I forgot to mention that Osiris was also speared in the side, too. |
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and that's precisely why faith is so easy to manipulate |
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you really think very lowly of christians, don't you? like christians are by definition stupid and manipulable? how insulting. |
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