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so i follow an ideal of love. i do NOT subscribe to anything that goes against this. and i don't converse on such things to convert anyone, i just state my opinion and my belief. i hope no one thinks i am on a crusade here. i AM offended however that such a topic exists. i thought we were all alot more mature than this. |
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this should be closed yes. this will only result in a flamewar... the title of this thread is a bit too agressive, its better to discuss such delicate matters with a little more care and respect |
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agreed. and this is my only "cause" with this thread, is to hope people realise that this thinking is dangerous and innappropriate for the nature of the board. if skyfarmer's threads got closed for offending phob or the mods, than THIS TOO should get closed. |
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Tibbar, Christianity is just another superstition. It is based on fantasy and not on fact. Because it is divorced from reality, it can be bent into any malevolent shape demagogues and tyrants can dream up to drive the will of the people. It doesn't have to make sense because it's based on gnosis and revelation, on feelings not reason. |
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your random caps offend me. |
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so who WAS christ then? becuase, like i have stated before, there is tremendous CONCRETE factual support (from non-biblical sources) to support his existance. so who was he then, that men should remember him so? |
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do you believe non-christians go to hell? if not then why would the christian rligion even matter? if so, then that's wrong because a person who was born muslim is born to go to hell. |
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are you exactly who you were when you were born? culture is no substitute for a God. |
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if you think jesus is the lord, then i think david blain is the lord. |
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Christianity is more like a collection of older religious texts with a new testement appended. |
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you once again ignore evidences and choose subjective reality. to have a rational, logical discussion requires more thanme speaking into thin air, you know. |
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how could a person who has never known christianity be banished to hell for their ignorance. it doesn't seem fair. isn't god supposed to be fair? |
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sorry, marl... that wasnt directed at you. |
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they arent. they are like babies. they are considered innocents. you have to have heard of christ to reject him. but this too, will no doubt brings controversy. |
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of course, on the other hand, seek and you will find. |
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innocent? as opposed to guilty? what are non-christians guilty of? thinking differently? |
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sin. |
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yeah, seek and you will find nothing. why is your religion right, and other religions wrong? a friend and i we're talking about death and the afterlife. we thought about how many people will be surprised to see what lies after death. will you be expecting to be standing in front of a huge gate? |
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hehe, it's ok tibbs ;) I think that JC existed, but I'm more of the believe that he was a Hebrew freedom fighter and member of a society |
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Tibbar, what concrete factual evidence do you have that Jesus: a) existed b) was the son of God |
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so disbelieving god is a sin? just becuz a person isn't religous doesn't mean they don't have the same morals as religion. its commen sense that lying, stealing, killing, etc. is wrong. i don't need a 'god' to help me decide right and wrong. |
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i dont imagine theres a literal gate. i imagine its metaphor. if so, oh well, theres a gate. |
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what do you get from being religous? are you just afraid of going to hell? |
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before i go make lunch... fleet: if we just take for example the roman death warrant. nothing else, just that article. explain it. their government was TIGHT. explain that away. there IS no "undeniable proof" of his being the messiah. why else do the jews deny him. if it was completely undeniable, no one would have the crucial freedom of choice. neo: you misunderstand what sin is, apparently. it isnt not believing, its defiling yourself in God's eyes. he wants to help you. you want to do whatever YOU think you should be allowed. |
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Christianity, from my point of view, is a story mixed up with some true storys and other layers of older religions (ive said this before) A religion based on things that cannot be verified, and based on using fear to control people (IF sin = TRUE: GOTO HELL: ELSE GOTO HEAVEN) is wrong. However, people are free to believe whatever they want. Tibbar: im bloody seriously here, and i dont want to diss anyone, but what made you believe in god and all? |
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if that was my only motivation, i wouldnt be saved, would i? love of God and his son is salvation, not fear of hell. |
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whoa a lot of people posted before i was done typing that... |
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i believe i am smart enough to take care of myself and be respectful to others and be a good person without having a false prophet to show me the way. i am strong enough to stand alone. |
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jaroen: thats a LOOOOOOOOOONG story. seriously. it would take hours to tell. it took 14 years of my life to get where i am now. some pretty bad times. i really wish i had time to tell it and not have to type it out into the emotionless internet. nevertheless, i DO have to go now, as my lunch is cooking. good day, gentlemen peace, love, compassion |
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what do you need salvation from? sin? telling lies? how could you repent for your sin, when at the time you sinned you knew you were sinning, but you still went through with it? do people like you accidentally sin? |
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still going i see. |
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Do you have a link on this death warrant? there IS no "undeniable proof" of his being the messiah. why else do the jews deny him. if it was completely undeniable, no one would have the crucial freedom of choice. I'm not asking for "undeniable" proof. Just some evidence that he was more than a man. |
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there is evidence that Jesus (or Yoshua) existed, but none that he is the messiah. |
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the problem is, something doubtfully exists untill it has been proven to be false. |
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im pretty sure he existed, its just that everyone adapted the stories to fit their needs... check some history books.. |
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im sure the stories were blown way out of proportion over time too. |
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But how much do we know about this Yoshua? How much of the gospels is really about him, and how do we know? It's like the Minoan civilization - we know they practiced a "sacred sport" called bull-leaping, and this fact was distorted over time into the legend of the Minotaur. Complex myths need only a tiny grain of fact around which to crystallize. |
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Hey I can't stay on right now, I am on my lunch break. I found an article relating to Tyre that addresses some of the alleged discrepancies. I will see if I can find anymore. Here is a link to that article. http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr1996/r&r9612c.htm If you are all willing, I would like to come on later and present evidence that Jesus of Nazareth was the prophecied messiah of the Old Testament. There is enough extra-biblical evidence for the existance of the historical Jesus alone that most scholars agree that this man walked the earth and was crucified pretty much how it is told to have happened in the gospels. The item in question would be whether or not He was divine or only a man. |
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:: braces for lord, lunatic or liar argument :: |
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It's inhabited and rebuilt. Case closed. |
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There is evidence that he was a regular Jew worried about the Romans and that he was a member of a couple of groups who were pretty spartan... but like I said, no proof that he is the messiah or that he was 'THE' literal son of god. BTW, the thief Barabas that he was crucified with was his brother (Barabas also means either son of god or king of jews - I forget which) the term was applied sarcastically of course. |
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From a purely rational/logical standpoint, the Bible is garbage. Two-Valued Logic demands at least internal consistancy, and thus the New Testament fails. For a super quick example, compare the two different versions of the cruxifiction as described in Mark and John. Mark says someone carries Jesus's cross to the Place of the Skull, while John asserts that Jesus carried it the entire way. Who's lying? If we are not going to throw Reason out, then one of the two conflicting versions MUST be incorrect. Also, why don't Mark and John agree on what Jesus's last words were? Once again, someone has it wrong. Further, in Acts Paul tells three conflicting versions of what happened to he and his companions on the road to Damascus. Rationally, only one can be correct. Even if we throw Reason out completely and take it on faith, which version are we to have faith in? Want more confusion? Genesis contains not one, but TWO creation stories. Guess what? They are totally different in order of creation and what happens after creation. Etc. Etc. Etc. I would like to understand how Christians rationalize these obvious inconsistancies and still maintain the veracity of the Bible. |
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"Fuck off !!" "....?....How shall we fuck off oh lord ? " |
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Empiricus, what you want is some . That is the science and art of making excuses for the absurdities, cruelties and inconsistencies of the Bible. Though what a text inspired by God needs in the way of excuses from poor fallible humans I don't know - Anyhoo it's an entertaining read, mostly because they often leave the glaring errors and contradictions unresolved and hanging right in front of your nose. It's like they can't even see it. |
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Thanks. Pretty amusing stuff. |
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If you've ever visited then you've probably already come across this, but what the hell: |
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well, I must say I'm on the side of tibbar... this thread is downright offensive... it seems some people have some definite anger built up inside of them towards Christians... and I really hate it when all Christians are blamed for anything wrong that has ever been done in the name of Christianity... hey, I have never killed anyone for that, so please don't lump me in with any fanatical people from the past... I'm a Christian, I have my own personal beliefs, and I don't throw them at peoples faces... so please, can you respect me for my choice of beliefs, and not make fun of them? It's really disrespectful, and like I've said before, is like a slap to my face... people talk about evidence and all that, but there is no concrete proof for the existence or non existence of God... no matter how much people call Christians ignorant, or silly for their beliefs, there is still no concrete proof that we're wrong, so how can you do that? Doing that, harrassing us for our beliefs, is just as ignorant and silly... my belief is a personal thing... if you choose not to believe, fine... but dammit, please have some respect for my beliefs ok... we are civilized human beings here are we not? |
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The Invisible Pink Unicorn told me that there is no God. That's all the proof I need. |
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