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"You wouldn't steal a CAR You wouldn't steal a HANDBAG You wouldn't steal a TELEVISION You wouldn't steal a DVD DOWNLOADING PIRATED MUSIC SOFTWARE IS STEALING STEALING IS AGAINST THE LAW SO GO AND BUY FLOOPS YOU CHEAP BASTARD!" |
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thank god I'm not lots of people then. |
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Now that I think about it, how would not pirating prevent you from making music? You could sing, or buy a recorder for less than ten dollars, or use the vast array of free softwares - audio editors, VST instruments, VST hosts... these days if you buy an audio interface it comes with one or more host programs like Cubase LE etc. |
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Unlike most people you think you're unlike most people, eh? |
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I can't sing. I'm thinking of taking a class to learn how to, though... I also need to be able to program with precision, so I need software.. though I'm getting more and more hardware now... I did buy an audio interface, cubase came with it, but I can't make cubase do what I need it to do (it hasn't got the correct features), and I've tried other freeware things that didn't have what I needed either, so I use Acid instead. |
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With hardware you always get the kind of situations where you get used to using stuff that you dont own - playing around with a mate's keyboard or something, or borrow your friends xbox for a month... you just don't get that with software and a lot of people like me use software in that way; use it for a period if it comes your way, and then either delete it or permenantly incorporate it into your set up. The other thing is that you can't really sell on software. Whether this is linked to piracy is something else, but if you buy actual gear you can get half your money back later but if you buy software you dont like its £300 gone I dont think to say 'i need to make music' is valid - its not your right. it is a luxury as someone said, and also just saying flat out 'I can't afford it' generally isn't true either. Its just when it comes down to making the decision of either not having the software at all because its not worth the asking price, or paying a huge amount for it, most people prefer not to make that choice. |
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I have no delusions of being exceptional in any way; I am in fact average joe and quite happy with it. however, I'd be very very sad and extremely stressed if I couldn't make music; it's a recreational hobby. I'm very prone to stress and such.. in fact I'm stressing right now, and I have been for about a month, and this time, it's showing itself in me constantly biting my teeth hard together.. this in turn leads to pain in the teeth and a strain on my neck, so I've also got a stiff neck. my stomach is also a bit more out of order than it normally is.. very acidic and throat burns don't make the stress any better. I have, however, found that the only time my teeth unclench aside from when I suddenly become aware that I've been biting all day and concentrate on not doing it (you try and see how long you can keep your mind on not clenching your teeth together in a normal everyday situation.. it's not something you normally have to do, so it's harder, and you also quite often have to concentrate on other things), is when I'm making music. |
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it sounds to me like you could quite easily afford a workable music set up, if you were honest about what you 'need' |
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I think if people are going to pirate most of their software no matter what, they should, at the very least, support the more unique/specialized smaller, fledging companies as much as possible... in much the same way as people often pay for independently produced albums and pirate all their pop music. It's just that people nowadays, since they have everything splayed out before them, have their mind set at always having x amount of intangible 'booty' to keep them satisfied and will do whatever necessary for that. It's like someone with a cable television descrambler.. they sure as hell are not going to only descramble some of the channels. |
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did you just describe physical symptoms to something... to which pirated software is the cure? |
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not a general cure, and the software itself isn't the cure. the disease is stress, and the cure, for me, is making music. "making music" is, most likely, for any other person, substitutable for their hobby, and the sentence would hold equally true. the thing is, I'm not trying to justify piracy, and I know it's wrong, I'm just saying it's not a big enough wrong for me right now to really care. if I had to choose between not making music and having constant stress pains whenever I stress (often), and especially like with the stress right now, that I don't even know where is coming from (I can't really do anything about it until I know what I'm stressing about) and pirating a program to make music and relieve the stress, I'll choose piracy. |
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ive managed all this time with free software anyway! Thats the easy way around paying a months wages for a piece of software. the programs ive managed to find are a bit limiting - but it encourages innovation. |
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Wah wah wah, this cheap violin isn't medicinal enough, I have to steal a stradivarius. Also, GIVE ME MONEY TO KEEP FROM BEING VIOLENT. I'm just society's victim. Be grateful I don't find arson relaxing. |
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Wow. These arguments are stupid. I use hardware, and it feels 100X better than a bunch of shit on screen. For the record, the only software I feel comfortable buying nowadays, would be absynth and audition. |
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exactly. if I'm going to steal something, I'll steal the big one. |
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Hey, fleetmouse... |
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Did you pay for that copy of photoshop, taxidermist? |
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Came with the computer. |
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I would like to point out that you seem to be taking this whole piracy thing very personally. |
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Anyway, have you ever downloaded an mp3, recorded a television show off tv, burnt a dvd, made a tape of a friends cd or the radio as a kid, photocopied anything from a magazine or a book or anything along those lines? |
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totally missing the point. did you read the thread? |
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Well, seeing as I contributed throughout the thread, yes I did read it. I think I understand the point. But explain to me how is it off the point? Not paying for software that you are using is identical to not paying for music that you are listening to or a movie that you are watching. Your analogy about the apple is off, because if a merchant buys an apple for the purpose of selling it, then there is a loss of product if it is stolen. If a merchant buys a copy of reaktor for the purpose fo selling it, then there is a loss of product if it is stolen. If you download a copy of that software, then use it, there is no loss, only the increased chance that that person may go out and buy it later. I am going to use the argument of the guy who developed audiomulch here. Most of the people that use cracked software use it because they can't afford to buy it. There would not be a loss anyway... wait a second. i can't believe there has been 71 posts in this thread. This is asinine. Fucking hell people, WTFC? I am going to go back to paying my hard earned money for something that I can actually feel, hear, and has resale value, and not seeing the computer as any kind of music tool. |
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One last point before I go, if you ever use a recording from another piece of music in your music without permission, that is piracy too. If you think there aren't any grey lines, then at least hold yourself to that. Don't be a hypocrit. |
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If you've ever hummed a tune off the radio, or taped a sporting event without express written consent, it's exactly the same thing as pirating a very expensive piece of software. Exactly. Well, um.. basically it's the same thing as illegally removing the tags from a matress that you weren't technically the 'consumer' of. |
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You misunderstand. This isn't about intellectual property laws. This is about my own experience - being told by a local retailer that they don't carry NI anymore due to piracy. What do you call it when your target market already has your product? Market saturation. |
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I think people who pirate software imagine there's a mythical "someone else" who pays for it and keeps a roof over the developers' heads. It must be the same "someone else" who's going to cut down on carbon emissions, put in hours volunteering for charity, clean the kitty litter, etc. |
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i really like how understanding an issue makes you an extremist, whereas ignorance of the subject means that there's too much grey area. that's a good argument. it's sooo mysterious and confusing, you're right. i won't answer your questions again because i already did. you simply refuse to understand the answers. i know this is uncomfortable, but the fact is that your own view, your personal moral justification, doesn't get to define the facts in the real world. |
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Jews |
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I'd only buy the software if the freeware equivalent didn't exist. Windows --> Linux Reaktor --> Pure Data WaveLab --> Audacity ? --> csound,supercollider :) Are freeware developers pirates(or at least evil) too? Don't they effectively "steal" the profits of the commercial ones? |
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by that reasoning you could call any competitor in the field a pirate for stealing your profits. |
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The fact that a lot of freeware plain sucks is not really helpful. |
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I don't think you guys are actually seeing the full picture. |
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Well explain it in a though provoking cohernet and intelligent post then. |
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qrter: where'd you get the picture of the kid with the dreds and the pirate patch? im 95% sure I know that kid... his names eric and plays acoustic bass |
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I did a google image search for "pirate yarr" - the webpage. |
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HAHAHA! Thats him! Holy hell! |
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When you pay for software, you aren't paying for the software itself. You are paying for a licence to use that software. Generally, if you want to use that software on another computer, you have to pay for another licence. If your computer crashes, and you want to reinstal that software, you have to pay for another licence. If you decide to switch your computer over to another format (mac to pc, vice versa), then you have to pay for another licence. Etc Etc. Now how can I feel comfortable paying $300 for something that I might loose in two weeks because of a hard drive crash? I can't. I am not saying that piracy isn't illegal. I am just saying that it can be justified. Fleetmouse feels that his not being able to get an NI product is because of oversaturation of the market. I ran around for 4 months this summer trying to find a Nord Lead 3. None of the distributors had one. It wasn't because a bunch of people were running around with cracked nord lead 3's. Thats it. I am off to work. |
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You misunderstand. This isn't about intellectual property laws. This is about my own experience - being told by a local retailer that they don't carry NI anymore due to piracy. how do they know it's from piracy? that argument is always used when a music or software company goes broke. but what about other arguments? maybe people buy things like these online? bad service from the retailer?I dunno. I bought my software online. If some kid in school didn't give me a cracked version of FL I'd have NEVER EVER EVER bought it. |
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the first part of that is like the worst case scenario and the exception to the rule. then you get to the point you are trying to make: Now how can I feel comfortable paying $300 for something that I might loose in two weeks because of a hard drive crash? I can't. so don't buy it. case closed. what does it mean? it means the world isn't fair, software costs money, computers cost money, everyone is trying to get your money oh. it still doesn't justify stealing it. |
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Yes it does. Doesn't matter how fair it is or isn't. On a side note, let me re-itterate. I don't use cracked software. I have it, but I use hardware. I only test out software so that I can give people advice on what to buy. There is a resale value for hardware. I don't have problems with it crashing. I have a physical tool that I can touch and use, and I don't feel like I have been ripped off. Personally, I think software is tacky, and it pisses me off that more and more people decide they would rather use software, and all the great companies stop making innovative new hardware and the retailers aren't carrying as much hardware because the demand for it is reduced due to consumer interest in software. Akai almost went bankrupt because of people using inferior software samplers. Because of that, I nearly couldn't buy an MPC in canada for a six month period. Do I go around bitching about how peoples software use is making it more difficult for me to find great new hardware? No. Its up to what people are inspired by, and I choose not to judge people based on what they use to make music with. And as far as I am concerned, that is a much more honest way to go about things than judging people for what they use because they can or cannot afford it. |
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Since when has a crashed hard drive meant you have to pay for a new licence? I've never seen software like that. The only case that would apply is if you lost your licence key. |
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if you've bought the software, and lost your license key, I don't even think it's illegal to crack it... at least it shouldn't be.. what license key you use should be irrelevant if you've already bought the software. |
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Taxidermist can't separate the issue of not liking software from the issue of piracy hurting developers, wholesalers, retailers and legitimate customers. And this: Akai almost went bankrupt because of people using inferior software samplers. Yes, but using software instead of hardware is neither illegal nor unethical. Buying a word processor instead of a typewriter is not morally equivalent to stealing a typewriter. Capisce? |
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if i ever make vst's and music it'll certainly be free. |
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I think there would still be great new software being made even if nobody paid for it anymore. Same goes for music. |
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i paid for my copy of Live5 and i'm proud of it. hopefully i can start paying for all of the VST's that i've been using as of late. i still need to pay for a copy of windows................... |
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Oh, and about licensing: I don't know how other companies work but NI, for example, lets you have two machines activated at any time and lets you transfer the licenses to new systems - or even to a new owner. What if your house burns down? All you need is your serial number, your NI website login and an install disk to get up and running on a new system. If you don't have the install disk or a backup of it NI will send you one for a small fee. |
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Rubbish, maybe if you're talking about glitch hop or micro blipcore. Orchestras, Choirs, quality session musicians, studios to record the beat you are sampling etc. etc. cost a lot of money. same with the software, Adobe Creative Suite CS2 wouldn't be here without serious investment. |
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Only a professional really "needs" any of this high-end software stuff, and at a professional level, you know, things work differently, I don't know, licenses, support, umm, all sorts of things, I'm sure there's more money to be made from studios and development and custom projects for films, anything, than just relying kids and hobbyists buying the packages. That might be why they're not fucked about trying to sell it. You can't have a product that's intended for some state of the art studio that's also going to be within the reach of DJ Handjob, aged 14, in his bedroom. How's that going to work? How do you price that? Do even I know what I am trying to say here? |
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I reckon the FBI have already got all our names and addresses |
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