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 (nobody)...and 114 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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when MAN can made a human being from SCRATCH What do you mean from scracth? You mean from nothing? One of the basic sciences rules states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. As for abiogenesis, we are working on it... |
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I can't believe you're discussing something so stupid as God.... I thought everyone was in agreement that God exists on the same plane as the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. |
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hehe the biblical text i was referring to was written before aristole.....=0) i just wanted to add my thoughts.....but as i mentioned before i'm not getting into heavy discussion on the INTERNET! you's guys have faster connections, etc....tee hee j/k and mousey NO STEAK dinnah for you! =b i have to limit the MB cos it's causing buffering problems with the radio show.......waaaaaah |
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Sssshhhhhh. I want her to ask me to show her how to make a person using only the elements that make us... you know, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, earth, wind, fire, fine satin sheets... |
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oh your're in it baby :) |
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"the biblical text i was referring to was written before aristole.....=0)" ok well you got me there, but people wrote the bible. Or do you believe that God dirtated it to them? |
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and mousey NO STEAK dinnah for you! =b Seafood will be fine then. *wiggles eyebrows* |
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next thing you'll tell me the bible was written B.C. |
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"the biblical text i was referring to was written before aristole..." 1. Still it means nothing, greek philosophers had knoweledge of the atom way before it was discovered. This doesn`t mean that their mythology is real... 2. The other numerous erroneous statements that the bible makes in the field of science, make such a discovery merely an insignificant exception... 3. It's hard to estimate the age of those writings since we do not have the original, and such passages could be subsequent add ons.... |
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"next thing you'll tell me the bible was written B.C." the old testament was written by Hewbrews ranging from 1500 bc to 300bc. theocide - I know. Some people just cannot be convinced that satan is our true lord and master! |
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thanks for that, you've convinced me |
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You want some jaw-dropping ancient science, read Lucretius. BC mind you, he's describing the molecular structure of materials with different properties, dominant and recessive genes, the basics of biological and cultural evolution... |
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the main thing to me, is that believing that the universe, and all the complexities within the universe came together by lots of little dust particles which were created after a big bang, is just rediculous... it makes more sense to me to believe in a supernatural being to have created the universe... |
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So you think it's more likely that a supremely intelligent and powerful being exists? How did he come about? Sounds pretty complex; something more powerful and intelligent must have created him, right? After all, that's your reasoning when it comes to the universe and its complexity... |
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it makes more sense to me to believe in a supernatural being to have created the universe... It used to make more sense to think that lightning were thrown by angry gods standing on a mountain... It used to make more sense thinking that earth was the center of the universe. It used to make more sense to think that earth was flat... And for some people it still makes more sense to believe that our current life forms were created as they are instead of evolved. |
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I was tihnking about this last night. First of all I thought the thread asked does God exist? But thats' besides the point I suppose erm I don't believe in god, in the great supreme being who sits at the pearly gates. I can't actyually remeber writing it butt in my mobile phone reminders it says "DO you believe in reincarnation" It also says in another reminder "strange Notion" I know what this is it's Love I believe in that today anyway :D but to get back to the point which was... Oh to hek with it |
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I don't know... I can't explain why I believe in God really... I just do... and isn't it enough to just really believe in something, and not have to analyze why? I know that God exists, and so I'm fine with that... I don't need to know how God exists, or whatever, I just believe he does... |
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It is good to have faith in something. It gives people hope, and something to turn to when life becomes too difficult. But, what happens when that faith is tested to the point of breaking, and all you have left is yourself. That is when things start to look a little more scary. That is when you will wish you had considered the possibility that 'He' doesn't exist a little more carefully. If you can have faith in yourself, and in the world around you that you can see, hear, feel, touch, and smell, then you will need no other 'God'. And with the disappearance of a need for God, comes the disappearance of God. |
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and isn't it enough to just really believe in something, and not have to analyze why? Well in my opinion it isn`t enough, but If it makes you feel good, I will not argue against it... |
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well, I don't believe in God because I feel I need to... but because He exists as far as I'm concerned... |
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So you have not 1 single doubt about Gods existence? |
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hehehe faith in myself? well, THAT explains why the earth is so screwed up nowadays. what terrible gods we make. can you honestly tell me you are so full of your own pride that you REALLY believe in this existential bs? puhlease! there is not a doubt in my mind that God exists, because i've FELT him. i KNOW him personally. i've seen the world through his eyes. i am a completely different person than i used to be (in a GOOD way) because of him. i'd like to point out that there is a reference in the Bible that Jesus himself makes about philosophy and science. it goes kinda like this; "what is wisdom to those who are saved, is foolishness to the pharisees and the greeks." what this means is that a person who is born again is enlightenment, and is IMMEDIATELY scoffed at without thought by people who believe in their own intellect & wisdom. does this sound familiar to anyone? does this same discussion not occur EVERYDAY on this mb? HOW long is this thread? i keep hearing the argument that truth is subjective... how so? how can something be ultimately true, and false to someone else? this is a contradiction. you want a contradiction, sit down and actually READ the bible... then, go out and look at the world. watch how people treat other people. only THEN will you see what true contradiction is, you will see it in EVERY SINGLE PERSON. that is why humanity needs saved, becuase it is blind. when you see THAT fact, then no, there is no doubt in God's most holy existance. |
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<- shrugs |
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shrug it off all you like, you can't wish him away... he is MUCH more real than you or i. you just don't see that because you are so far removed from him. he is EVERYWHERE. and he isn't on some throne sitting there way up high, he's right down here... he's sitting right next to every single one of you. why is that so scary to so many people? why is that bad? it's done nothing but help me become who i always wanted to be. if truth is truth and God is God, then there is NO escape from either one. i just can't figure out how that spells dread for so many of you. perhaps if you understood what it means to be the embodiment of LOVE first, you would except him more. or, perhaps not. |
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what this means is that a person who is born again is enlightenment, and is IMMEDIATELY scoffed at without thought by people who believe in their own intellect & wisdom. Variations on that argument have, in my experience, been used to justify almost every wrongheaded idea that has ever been proposed in human history. Ever seen Hare Krishnas chanting ecstatically for hours on end? They are as high as fucking kites, and about as rational. And I'm sure their certainty about their faith is no less certain than yours. But they're going to Hell, doot doo de doot de dooo... God is something that happens inside your skull. That's why you have to turn off your intellect and wisdom to experience him; your set has to be properly adjusted. That is, you have to be tuned between stations, watching the snow and static. And then you start to see things in the static, like a ducky, or a moo-cow, or Jesus. |
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because you're wrong and it's not true. |
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Body of Christ: it's not just for communion anymore call 1-800-COOK-GOD for fast and easy recipe ideas Jesus: deliciously simple, simply delicious |
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Existance is a spot on the pure face of God. And if it gets late in the history of the world, we will join Him. And there will be no eternity. ------------- I'm not sure about the translation, coz i dit it by myself, and my english is...khmm...anyway, hello to everyone :-) |
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A Grook: Nature, it seems, is the popular name for milliards and milliards and milliards of particles playing their infinite game of billiards and billiards and billiards. |
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"Body of Christ: it's not just for communion anymore call 1-800-COOK-GOD for fast and easy recipe ideas Jesus: deliciously simple, simply delicious" HAHAHAHA, fleetmouse you are silly 8^D This topic got everyone in a tizzy didnt it.... ;*) I have to admit it would be pretty funny if at the end of it all, when your dead....... there is nothing... there.... you just die..... Or if there was no god.... and people just went to this like waiting place to be born agian.... imagine how pissed off some people would be in the waiting room! HAHAHAHHA That is at least what I think what happens when you die.... your reborn. Just my thoughts though Wierd how no one really talks about other possibilities or hypothesis's on what may happen when you kick the bucket. I have this picture in my head of an extreme religious right wing lady waiting in this room place with this pissed off look on her face.... HAHAHAHHA! like an expression of : WTF, hahahah |
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Once I saw the truth and it almost floored me. I was on a subway--isn't public transport just the ultimate place for generating insight--and I was reading Joseph Campbell's Hero With 1000 Faces. (never mind that some say he's full of shit or misrepresents various cultures; that isn't the point) So I was reading about the mystery of the emergence of something from nothing, from the void, and just for a second I got it, and I realized gravity meant nothing: I was a dim point of consciousness floating in an infinite dark sea of the unknown. "Vertigo" is an understatement but it's the closest thing to what I was feeling. At that moment I realized that there are no real authorities on anything, that we're all feeling around in the dark, that no matter how many mysteries we solve, we'll never know why "is" is. Hey theists, if you want an uncomfortable silence, next time you're praying ask God why He exists. |
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I was on a subway--isn't public transport just the ultimate place for generating insight HAHAH I often think about that too... But usually subways make me reflect on human uselessness, and monotony of life... |
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"what is wisdom to those who are saved, is foolishness to the pharisees and the greeks." what this means is that a person who is born again is enlightenment, and is IMMEDIATELY scoffed at without thought by people who believe in their own intellect & wisdom. Cheap excuse, for covering that your arguments aren`t really strong, and often times are nonsensical... You can`t belive in christianity until you are a christian... you can`t understand dianetics untill you get in the church of scientology... It takes nothing to make an argument like that... |
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But usually subways make me reflect on human uselessness, and monotony of life... Mmmm. Sometimes it makes me sad the way we waste our lives and our potential commuting to and from work, being whores to the almighty dollar. Then I think, but money can be exchanged for goods and services, like beer and a soapy tit wank! |
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I believe in God, I just spell it nature.. "hehehe faith in myself? well, THAT explains why the earth is so screwed up nowadays." Nowadays? "There is not a doubt in my mind that God exists, because i've FELT him" Imagine a clock work mechanism, every cog interconnecting.. Apart from 1, u remove the cog.. The mechanism still runs perfectly.. I experience emotions that others would likely ascribe to God.. So i understand where tibbar is coming from.. Unfortunately my emotions tell me nothing about the wider state of reality.. Cleanliness is next to godliness.And the chip shop is next to the hair dresser's.It doesn't persuade me to visit either. |
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. |
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that trick he did with the loaves & fishes was great! great if you like fish in breadcrumbs |
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Cleanliness is next to godliness.And the chip shop is next to the hair dresser's.It doesn't persuade me to visit either. So what can we tell about Unseenmachine? He's dirty, godless, and hungry, having a bad hair day. Brothers, let us pray. O , ye amazing dancing beaver deity, we beseech thee, grant unto our new friend Uncleanmachine a shower, a comb and a bag of chips. Amen. |
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you non god believing devils should probably read this http://douglass.speech.nwu.edu/edwa_a45.htm |
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heres a sampler The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. |
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It's like a . |
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The message of Christ is a simple one: "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!".... I remember my first religious experience. I was alone at the time and so was able to clear up the mess before anyone noticed. Get thee behind me Satan! Get thee in front of me God! Let's have a threesome! |
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too many posts to reply as if i'd never left the conversation. here's how i feel about the topic at hand: science can be both a tool for material progress and a means by which to understand the universe, BUT, science can not be the end to understanding the unvierse. it is a limited perspective on an infinitly comlex thing... existence. as science answers why this particle does that and that force does this and maps the macro and micro processes of the physical it will always create more questions; think fractals... chaos applies to mist everything at the core. the scientific process of answering fundamental questions of physics is actually the process of fragmenting the questions. this is most explicitly seen in the fragmenting of matter into smaller and smaller pieces. there is always another "but why?" to sum it up, reality cannot be rationalized. ask yourself seriously, how can all this be? is not everything a miracle? this is what i meant by "god is that which holds my body together." where do forces and matter and energy come from? no where? they just are, and always have been? what is eternity? how can there be no beginning? god is the rationalization of the mystical experience, which is not rational. beyond mere contemplation, when your body becomes consumed by the awe and wonder of the unanswerable questions--the mystery, the miracle--one may no longer identify with the human body, but come to realize that your identity is the entire universe, or that your body is a mere focal point of consciousness within the grand body of all that is. at what magical point during evolution did the identity of the self seperate from the earth? at which magical point did conscoiusness click? there is no solid boundary between you and other, but rather a continuum. this is often felt as not just you identifying with the universal body, but the universal body coming to you. this is what god is. such an awesome experience is often interpreted as that which created, or makes the decisions. t |
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such an awesome experience is often interpreted as that which created, or makes the decisions. in a sense it is what is always creating, because it is the totality, the sum of all that is. i understand how silly relgions seem to be, but realize that the foundation of all religion and the many faces of god is this experience. it is one that spans all of humanity. iroel, i say you were ignorant of the mystical experience because it has nothing to with delusion and you speak as if you have no knowledge of it. it has everything to with seeing with the broadest perspective, one that cannot be rationalized but can inform one's personal life. i don't think i'll read your papers because i thought you had specific articles that you knew of that related to our conversation. i could do a google search on neaurology myself if i needed, but i've read enough of that and there is nothing in neuroscience that is anything but confirmation of the miracle. |
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tibbar, im not afraid. |
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i dont disrespect your views. i just see things a little bit differently. im happy to be who i am. that has been my biggest accomplishment |
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Jupitah, science and religion are both models we use to map things out in our heads. The fact is that science is a better model, though religion may have more emotional appeal and even make more sense in the light of the experiences you're describing. But the problem is, dogmatists don't see religion as a model or an allegory. And in various other times and cultures they'd burn you alive or stone you to death for saying what you're saying, even though to us what you say seems in defense of religion. If folks like the allegory of a religion to make sense of the world, then that's fine. I can talk to them and find some common ground between my model and their model. However, too many people who are religious get up in arms at the mere hint that anything about their model/allegory isn't 100% literal truth. The mystical experience is wonderful and exhilarating but I think it says more about what's inside us than what's outside us. "It's only a model." "Shhhhhhhhhh!" |
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there is a cosmic balance, but today i believe it has personality and makes fun of me...;( i always thought everything comes at the right time, but rephlex..., bad timing... |
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beliefs showing more about our inner than the outer world is true, i´d like to have it anylized what it means to believe in that everything will be good ; or what kind of a person someone is who believes in fate.. or a balance maybe persons who beleive in fate or abalnace had some bad expereince with trust in childhood that example would fit to me.... |
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fleetmouse, i don't know if you think you are arguing against what i am saying or if you are just simply saying, but agree with you on much of what you say, so if you think what i was saying is opposed, then you've not understood me. i know religion is a model. my point was that the spark experience of all religion is a valid experience, but it is that attempt to rationalize it into a dogmatic religious model that brings about the absurdities of religion that we know. my relgion is simply my life, my body my church. i never said that science isn't a better model of reality than religion. but the mystical or religious experience doesn't have to lead to idiotic blind faith in some text or some person's opinion on the divine. and it's not in your head any more than day to day experience in your head. it's simply a different mindstate, a different point of view to observe the world. one can have a religious experience driving their car. is there any particular part of what i said you disagree with or don't understand? it seems as if i'm not really communicating. |
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