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 (nobody)...and 124 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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sheesh, Mormons .. trying to start a whole new thread eh? |
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I just think it's interesting that BYU doesn't have much on its site about anthropology/archaeology. I started looking when a Mormon friend told me that sure, there was lots of evidence that backed up the events in the book of Mormon. I'm still looking. Oh, and I didn't get a burning in my breast either in case you're wondering. |
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rockenjohnny: oh, no doubt -- both sides (believers vs. non-believers) often miss the point. some of the most ignorant and hateful people i've ever met are supposedly christian. it's really heartbreaking but that's life. |
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hehe yes I don't really see how anyone can buy Mormanism. needless to say alot would feel the same about Christianity.. but still, considering Mormainsim is a spin off of that. I agree, there doesn't seem to be anything to back it up even remotely. I'd be interested in chekcing out that site.. |
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Christianity has the saving grace of some wisdom on the part of Christ. Mormonism is like 19th century Scientology, and about as convincing. is a tale they aren't too proud of... On the other hand most of the Mormons I've met are nice earnest people. They think I'm damned, but doesn't everyone? |
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hey no Cfern bashing while i'm asleep. :-) i don't think that I was being pretentious. you can say say that religion is a personal choice. this is true. however you personal religous choice will be wrong. hinduism, buddism, athesthism, chrisanity, jewism and Islam. By logical definition, only one of these can be correct.. Jews and Christians cannot both be correct. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, Jews don't believe this. These are logical opposites. It is impossilbe for them to both be right. people have opinions this is true. but this isn't about opinions its about logical contridictions. consider these 4 statements. 1. "Grape Jelly is my favorite Flavor of Jelly". this statement is fact, it is my favorite and no-one can say other 2. "I believe in God" indeed it may be true that you believe in God 3. "There is an invisible Gremlin which causes all objects to gravitate to each other." True we can't prove this wrong, but in science the simplest answer is the best.. you don't want extra things in your theory that aren't provable and have no bearing on the real world. 4. "God exists" We no proof, historical, scientific, obserable or indirectly obserable of God's existtence. therefore the logical conslusion is that he does not exist. whew! |
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well, you can't prove that God exists or doesn't exist... so, if I read that essay it wouldn't sway my opinion that God exists, because i have never proven God exists, and I already have faith and believe in him/her/it in the face of a world which throws so called "evidence" at me every day that he doesn't... so, I'm in a hurry now, and can't stay long enough to read that essay... but, again I repeat, you can't prove God exists, yes that is true... but you also can't prove he doesn't exist... so I'm sure the points are all valid and interesting, and I already know of so called "evidence" that God is a myth, and yet I still believe in Him... A believe in a god is based on faith... if you believe an entity is supernatural, and is all powerful, and then try to prove that it exists or doesn't exist, well, it's just a stupid thing to do... God will never be proven to exist or not, at least any time soon... because, how can a scientist or essay writer prove that a supernatural, all-powerful being doesn't exist? I believe God exists, and that's good enough for me... |
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Now that you're decently hatted I can reply. if christianity were trendy among the so-called educated white middle class then you'd all be christians; as it's been for the last several decades, it's more hip not to believe in God. i agree w/ earthleakage: atheists tend to be just as naive as the most bible-thumping christians. I have to ask you, do you believe there's an objective reality that we all share regardless of race, class and education? Or do you believe that everything about "reality" is socially constructed? |
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i fail to see whats naive about being an athesist. to funk and others: i think it's fine you have a unshakking faith in God... to each their own. The essay should be read by philosophy types who believe that there at least a debate. |
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damn a few more points... not believing in god is nothing new. Nietche "God is dead" 1880ish. this essay was written 1927. it's just that back in the day, you would be burned alive. |
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"I believe God exists, and that's good enough for me... " I admire someone who can believe with all their heart that a god exists. I respect a person who has so much faith For all you people who are trying to show signs or explainations on how a god doesnt exist..... why do you want to disprove something that gives so many people comfort and joy in their lives? I could see why you would want to do it for one reason, to make the extreme religious right wing stop being ridiculous.... but most people are not right winged god toating converters, most christians I know just keep it to themselves, as a personal thing. |
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it's just that back in the day, you would be burned alive. Not always true. If you confessed the names of your familiar spirits, sometimes they would be merciful and strangle you before lighting the fire. |
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but you also can't prove he doesn't exist I'll prove you that God doesn`t exist, the day you'll prove me that you don`t have invisble elves in your bathroom... I'm serious...don`t tell me that I'm being childish... |
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I'm not trying to be agressive, but I've seen more than once requests to prove negatives which, as I hope my example pointed out, are ridicoulous, since it is an impossible thing to do... |
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i believe in one God and that Jesus Christ is our (humanity's) lord and savior. i also think that there is truth, wisdom, and admirable qualities in all major world religious that everyone can benefit from. i'm not imperalist in my beliefs, so while i don't think hindus or muslims are followers of the true faith, i respect them and their beliefs. i do think a LOT of atheism and "God bashing" is just a fad though. sure, it's not that new, but it's really only gained popularity since the 60s. it's a phase a lot of teens and 20somethings go through to strike out against authority and act cool. more and more people are never coming out of this phase (some do), but i still think a good percentage of people who put down christianity and espouse atheism are just following trends. some people i give more credit (although it sucks even worse for them, IMO, since i do believe there is a god and an afterlife). i'm not trying to create an infallible argument, cos it's not, but i don't wish to discuss the existence of God any further on my birthday. i'll make further comments tomorrow if need be, but this is all i have to say for now on the subject. |
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"For all you people who are trying to show signs or explainations on how a god doesnt exist..... why do you want to disprove something that gives so many people comfort and joy in their lives? " because of all the suffering done in God's name. heritics burned at the stake. 3000 + people killed on 9/11 in GOD's name. the last 1000 years of European history. the protestants and catholics killed each other in the blodiest battles. and they believe in the SAME god. |
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i still think a good percentage of people who put down christianity and espouse atheism are just following trends. I'm curious to know why you think it's a trend... |
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well it's tits b-day so he won't respond. it's not a trend. religion is just as popular as ever. |
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I don`t know what kind of trend can be, since from what i hear many atheist use "euphemisms" as ' I Have no religion' or disguise themself as agnostics, since they fear to be judged or to encounter people's prejudice... And cfern you are right...after september 11 church attendence has broken several records... |
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"because of all the suffering done in God's name. heritics burned at the stake. 3000 + people killed on 9/11 in GOD's name. the last 1000 years of European history. the protestants and catholics killed each other in the blodiest battles. and they believe in the SAME god. " So, because the idiots who commited these horrible crimes said they were doing it for "god" God is now bad? Hmmm, that's a pretty lame arguement... These two religions (Islam, and Christianity) are all about peace and love, and nothing about war... so, obviously these so called believers, those who have commited, and will commit horrible crimes in the name of God are dead wrong... people shouldn't rely totally on the actions of others... I understand it can be a huge turn off from religion, these types of actions can, but still you have to realize that nothing about the religions are pro-war, or anything at all horrible like that... Most people who are on the outside of religion looking in focus only on the bad parts of organized religion... they see priests molesting children and say "Oh, look at that... that religion is horrible!"... and they forget about the people who actually do good, and live amazing lives helping others... Religion is 100% a personal thing... you either believe, or you don't... I think it's as simple as that... forget what others are doing, and just look at it personally... if you don't believe, fine... if you do, great!! |
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Funkmaster, good explanation. when Peter cut off Malchus' ear, he thought he was helping Jesus. what did Jesus do? he put it right back on. He doesn't encourage violent acts, it's the ignorance of certain followers. |
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well i was just trying point out religion has done horrible acts. this was in resonse to leave religion alone! statement. ok i guess i'll attempt to leave this topic be. hopefully it at least provoked thought |
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conflicts because of religion have killed more people than anything else in history. There are way too many religious wars\conflicts to list but look at all the conflicts that the protestents\catholics in ireland also the conflicts between islam\chiristianity. I think that organized religion is not a good thing, people should come up with their own answers without attening a place where so called answers are spoon fed to them. again there is nothing wrong with being a spiritual person and is probably good for everyone but figuring things out for yourself is the only thing that makes sense instead of taking someone elses view of the world and of a god. also, most(not all) people only believe in a god because thats what theyve been told since they were young and do not want to question theres parents of their sourroundings. |
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the post coherent post on this topic yet!! *Applauds * |
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i'll put my 2 cents in........ i believe in God. i consider myself a christian. i try to be follow the golden rule, be good to others and they will do likewise. i respect others opinions. but i will not be drawn into a on-line discussion about a topic thats too important and impossible IMO to be discussed on-line. if anyone comes over to my casa.....we'll have a REAL chat! RESPECT for what others believe is the KEY word IMO! |
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yes, there have been countless conflicts over religion as you've said... but again, you have to realize that Christianity for instance promotes the acceptance of others... Jesus in the bible would associate with the "lowest of the low" even though the so called "elite" looked down on them... Jesus accepted everyone... I believe in God, but I no beef with anyone who doesn't, or anyone who believes that Buddhism is the right ideas... these people who can't accept other belief systems, and cause conflicts over it are definitely not getting the messages that are supposed to be made clear in these religions... but it shouldn't be a reflection of the religion that these people are fighting for, because they are not fighting for the right reasons... |
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it seems you say that because it's a coherant post that ISN'T pro-religion... I've seen lots of other excellent posts... |
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this topic is hot... *burns finger funkmaster - most christians don't live by christ's teachings. true or not? if you are rich give to the poor. if some one hits you turn the other cheek. this is all good stuff, Jesus was a very wise man. |
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"funkmaster - most christians don't live by christ's teachings. true or not? " No, I don't think it's true... because as I said before, it's the bad things that stick out... the people who actually do good are forgotten... Also, no Christian is perfect, and no true Christian would claim to be perfect... if a Christian makes a mistake, you can't really judge them and condemn them to death... we're all only human beings... |
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also, I would love for someone to actually gather statistics on how Christians do or do not follow the teachings of Christ... because it seems that the main arguement of atheists sometimes is that "Oh, well no Christians live right, they're all hypocrites!" And some very well are... I've met plenty... but not most... |
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If thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments…The Lord will smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish…The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart” (Deuteronomy 28:15-28) hmmm, I guess, according to the bible God is not too happy about people who don't believe in him... |
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holy fuck God means business! |
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Just be glad you're not a Midianite. |
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I have to really disagree with what titsworth said though about atheism Religion doesnt work for everybody. Sure there is the disgruntled teenager who wants to lash out or what have you. But there are some people that dont believe in a god. You dont need the rules of a religion to live a "good" life and "follow the rules" It takes your own steam and willpower. And I have even more respect for people who dont claim a religion live as good sumaritans. I believe there are many problems with some religions. History has exposed some of them, some are left lingering. But as LeCouer said, its about respecting other peoples beliefs. But thats a two way street, on the part of a non religious person, and on the part OF a religious person. Often times when I get into discussions about religion with people, they talk down to people who claim no religion, this holier then thou type attitude. Respect is a two way street that is for sure. The whole converting thing in religion really is just wrong. I see people who are born into a religious family, and have extreme pressure put on them not to question any of it, to just accept. Its almost as if which ever religion has more followers wins, in the churches eyes at least (ie the vatican) I was going to post a long something after reading this: "because of all the suffering done in God's name. heritics burned at the stake. 3000 + people killed on 9/11 in GOD's name. the last 1000 years of European history. the protestants and catholics killed each other in the blodiest battles. and they believe in the SAME god." but it seems funkmaster said everything I wanted to say allready. People can get inwrapped into religion and twist it and turn in to suit there needs, religion has been used many times in the past to suade or acuire support for an issue, vote, invasion... but people who think this way, have lost all concept on what religion and faith is all about. |
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I would come to your house to talk about religion and philosophy LeCoeur, as I am really interested in this type of discussion, but I might shoot all your cats then eat them...... ....so I dont know...... |
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plus titsworth might beat me up ;*) |
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here's a little text from the bible about the acceptance of other religions: "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up...And he said...They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger...For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs" (Deuteronomy 32:17-25)." ......I love this old writing-style! amazing... |
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i'd BEAT you up if you hurt my kitty kots!! gets medievil on yo arse!! actually i think tits agreed that RESPECT for others beliefs is key. what i've found when talking about this subject with others is that it usually boils down to someone calling the other 'weak minded' and to me that ends the convo RIGHT there. it's not weak to have Faith (in whatever you believe) and any suggestion to the contrary is just a WEAK argument.....and the last straw of a desperate person who is LOSING an argument!! my purpose is NOT always to WIN a discussion.....you usually learn more when you just listen and the other person listens. religion, politics, and sex discussions usually provoke name calling ....dunno why....but it's been my experience. |
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are all about peace and love, and nothing about war I disagree: God claims to be both a God of peace and a God of war. God ordered Joshua, to slaughter the canaanites and to open the pregnant women. Christ, promises more than once tortures to anyone that would not accept him. Meh... |
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I really like Christmas even though I think Christ is a myth. Christmas is the engine that drives the economy. They should call it "buy everything month" and we can spend all of December burning rolled up Adbusters magazines in the fireplace. |
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"religion, politics, and sex discussions usually provoke name calling ....dunno why....but it's been my experience" Only on rare ocassions do I see someone talk about this without resorting to insult I never implied that people who have religion had weak minds LeCoeur. Yea, I couldnt garuentee that I wouldnt hurt your cats.... especially if they looked at me funny. But maybe I could contain myself...... who knows |
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don't worry i'd CONTAIN you *looks at you funny* <--------- |
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OH DEAR! KEEP AWAY! *puts on jet pack* *fly's away back to the moon* WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! |
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You wouldnt happen to know an elderly woman that lives in the Santa Fe area by the name of Geneah Rickman would you LeCoeur? Or a city council member by the name of James Rickman? |
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prenez garde !!!!!! Dieu vous regarde ! :) |
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...it's a phase a lot of teens and 20somethings go through to strike out against authority and act cool. more and more people are never coming out of this phase (some do)... If the best you can do is slander the psychology of the opposing viewpoint then I shan't discuss it with you anymore. |
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i will say one thing: you're right, that was an unfair comment for me to make. it stems from talking to some really intolerant, uneducated, and manipulative atheists; i shouldn't apply my experiences so generally if i expect others not to judge me and other christians from televangelist wackos and hateful southern baptists. my apologies. |
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anyone older will tell you the same thing. 'religious' belief is almost defined by your age. first you believe, then you don't, then you come to realise how stupid you were to think either way. god is an inherent protective mechanism, it's not real. at all. if you speak to people who believe in a god then you come to realise they're all talking about somebody completely different. |
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god is simply that which holds my body together. |
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As one santa to another, that's cool. Immature jackasses desperately clinging to an ideology to prop up their deflating egos are never the best representatives of any point of view. And it can be anything--atheism, doctrinaire Randite objectivism, Satanism, Christianity, right wing, left wing, whatever. |
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