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 (nobody)...and 299 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Okay, this is getting a bit off topic. :D |
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kinda, i mean... it all ties in, depending on the outlook. but yeah, it is kinda ot for the board |
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okay, to bring it back around, just the fact that we obviously don't agree on moral principals; doesn't that support moral relativism? something that glasse said was "whether one is a christian or not, they have to at least admit to there being good and evil." to me seems disproven just by this example here. |
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well abortion is a question of ethics its only become a religious issue due to the vaticans stand, and all the press |
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I don't think christianity teaches to seek out suffering, but when suffering comes on account of your faith stay true. It also teaches not to blame God for suffering because this life is set for trials that will build character and if one is faithful relief is on the way even if one should die. |
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no i doesn't support moral relativism... You may believe killing is okay...you would be wrong.... ps. i am catholic so lay off.....i believe that rituals play an important part of life...but i don't really believe in god so don't worry about it.... religions are good for the people...they help the poor and such.. now islam on the other hand.... |
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as i said before No faiths condone it. huge surprise there |
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I think I was pointing out the logical conclusion to not believing in good and evil. I understand that many don't. |
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this is where i sign off... this obviously isnt going back to the abortion issue, and ive already partaken in TONS of religion debates on here, so... have fun. |
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what you said before about duality pricked up my ears it interests me that a duality christian faiths seek to combat is the good/evil one, and coming to terms with being those things as a person i dont spend any time thinking about extremes of good or evil.. i think that my life is going down the trail of solving the buddhist mahyana/sangsara (reality/illusion) duaility interesting to me how theyre solving the same problem different ways.. overcoming misguidance and seeing things for what they are :) |
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I'd love to continue some time but I have to crash for now. Good night all. |
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heh nice place for a theological discussion anyway..! |
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I change my mind froim time to time. I ve always been pro, but this last years I was feeling against but I think I am really pro [this was a serious post, even though it seems I am taking the piss] |
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when I say pro I mean pro choice (I had to read the whole thread to make this point) |
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Pro. I don;t think it should be abused though |
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I'm against... it's murder as far as I'm concerned... |
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To be honest how anyone can be against it baffles me. Who the fuck are YOU to say that? |
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How can you murder a foetus? |
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shrug, I have just as much right to say that as anyone who says it isn't murder... |
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punching the mother in her lower stomach |
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sorry... this is not the thread to be funny |
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ofcourse morality is subjective. it is thought up by humans - animals do not think in good or bad. and yes, there is a 'majority vote' in there - if most people think killing is okay and the law also accepts this change in moral climate, it then becomes the new moral standard. to a lot of people that is a real frightening thought - there is noone beyond the police who will punish you for acting immorally.. |
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Well I don't tend to go round dictating to people what is right and wrong, I leave them to make their own choices since they have their own lives to lead and they know what's best for themselves, y'know? Hey there's a Christianity parallel here somewhere, let me think of it.... |
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I don't know... it's obviously easy for me to say that... I've usually been pro choice in my time, thinking that the woman should have the choice... I've always been against myself, but have still felt it should be up to the woman... but then I think that this is life we're talking about... I don't know, then I think it should come down to responsibility of the woman, so if she has sex and gets pregnant, then it's her fault... but then what do you say when a woman gets pregnant from being raped... shrug, I don't know... me personally, I think it's wrong... I'm just glad I don't have the responsibility of making up laws, and defining the specifics about it... cause I don't know... |
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Picture this: You sister get's raped and is obviously truamatised by it. A few weeks later she misses a period and it turns out she's carrying this rapists baby You're telling me it would be wrong for her to abort this baby ?!? |
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what if what people do affects you in any way? just a question |
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also, making it the sole responsibility of the woman is pretty awful. you'd have to have huge investigations why someone became pregnant. there was a leak in the condom..? do you still have the condom, miss? no? please come along, miss. |
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I also think that a woman who doesnt want to get pregnant has the right to abortion if she gets. I mean, no need to be a 13 year old girl who has been raped and is in danger of dying it can be a 35 year old woman who has her own life and nice work and just dont want to have a baby in that moment |
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of course its not only the women decision, we have to decide too, but... dont you think that really they have the FINAL decision? |
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I'm not that person am I? I can give advice but at the end of the day it's their decision and I would abide by it. I'm not a Jedi master, mind control is beyond me. |
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I do not see why it would be okay to abort a rapist's child and not another. because the woman certainly did not want it? but in the other cases she also doesn't want it, no? I mean, she wants an abortion.. ah, but then it's her own fault..? what an awful way to think. what a happy family that child will be born into. |
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I wasn't talking about the decision, I was talking about this idea that it is the responsibility of the woman because she had sex in the first place. so, some of those who are against choice, then also believe it is the woman's fault for getting pregnant, for having sex. |
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I just don't know... my gut feeling is that it is... but like I said, how can you say... if the woman willing has sex, and gets pregnant then the baby is her responsibility, and to abort it there I do think is wrong... but as far as the rape situation is concerned, I'm not so clear cut... I do think abortion is wrong, but as well I think it's wrong that the woman should have to have a baby she never planned, or wanted to have at that point in time... when I say I think abortion is wrong, that's my gut feeling... I guess it should be pro choice... because it's true, who am I to decide what is right for someone else... it's just my opinion that abortion is wrong... |
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I understand exactly what your all saying and I totaly agree, it's just an example where abortion can be acepted by some people in certion situations and not in others. |
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no, but the rape scenario is based on the idea that the woman has no choice whether she gets pregnant or not... the sex is forced on her... if a woman has sex willingly, knowing the consequences, that is in my opinion different... but who's to say? |
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what I mean: you cannot just say: its others decision not mine, they can do whatever they feel they have to do. cos imagine they decide to kill your family... you would want them to be punished for that wouldnt you? cos they are doing something to be punished for... so it is not that you are deciding for them or anything, it is just that you dont want their decision to be legal... cos they are going to kill your family so here we are deciding if it should be legal or not... so people who are against arent deciding for others, ... I think btw... I think abortion should be legal |
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well I can see how it would be hell for the woman in question to also have to go through a whole pregnancy from a man who raped her. but then again, I am pro choice in all cases. |
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But it's still murder. The baby has done nothing wrong. It should ultimatley be the woman's choice because there is a different bond when you have a child inside you. I don;t agree that you should have an abortion just because you didn;t "plan" the pregnancy or you cant be bothered to take resposibility, you have to look into what life you and the child will have. What atmosphere will the baby grow up in. Age of mother regardless |
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A foetus is not a fully-formed human being therefore it does not carry the moral equivalence of killing a person. Women should have the right to abort a baby as and when they choose. It is THEIR body and any right-thinking person would recognise that they have the right to determine what happens to their body. |
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ah but there is a difference there. a woman wanting abortion makes a choice about her own body, not other people's bodies. |
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Does anyone else understand that? |
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lol.... you mean my post was chaotic and understandable? |
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I think he means that judge and jury decide about what happens to other people and you would want to decide what happend to someone who murdred your family |
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and really, to Jarworski and whoever else, if someone I knew got pregnant and they asked me whether or not they should get an abortion... I would probably say no... but that's just my opinion, and it comes down to the woman really... I would never look down at someone because they had an abortion... but if me and my girlfriend had sex, and she got pregnant, I don't think I could live with myself if we got an abortion... cause in that case I would be involved... the life, or potential life (however you want to look at it) would be partially my creation, and I don't know if I could ending that life, or potential life... I don't know though... I've never been in a situation like that, so I don't know... this is just how I feel about the situation... but I guess my final feeling would be that pro choice is the only fair way to go about this... shrug... |
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well, I'm not saying it's not murder in that case, I'm just saying it's a difficult scenario which I'm not qualified to decide on... |
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ok I made a ridiculous post but please dont make fun of me... my english didnt help this time sD |
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well, I guess I'm not qualified to decide on any scenario... but it's all just my opinion... I don't know... |
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she wasn't making fun of you. |
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I know... dont worry... its more that I was making fun of myself |
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don't think I'm having a go btw, I'm just pointing out that theres more to it than deciding you don't "want" a baby. Alot of the time it's better if the baby is never born. Think of all those abused children and orphans. There'd be alot less pain if it never happend. |
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