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 (nobody)...and 391 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614114 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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hehehe I'll try to post in Spanish one day to give you a laugh ;oD |
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I couldn't say till I'm in the position to have to. It's a tough decision to make. Well for me it would. On one hand you've got life On the other you've got an unwanted (at the time) child. Oh man! |
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I think its a question of education about contraception, with both people involved taking responsiblity in a given situation. Contraception should be subsidsed and free to young women over 15, and should be sorted out at the time. Some people actually not have children like the girl I met at a friend place who had just had an abortion, was getting drunk after her operation and bragging to me about how she nailed her dead pet cat to the walls of her flat. On the other hand my best friend Jill is grateful to her parents that she was not aborted as a foetus as she was adopted as a baby. Members of my family are solo parents and their children are precious to me. I can't decide ethically on this one other than people should make an informed choice based on the circumstances of the pregnancy... |
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Forget contraception. The Catholic Church just released important information confirming that condoms have holes in them. |
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I heard they build the factories right on top of hedghog dens |
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So then is the only reason for one to do something good over something bad is because either a) in their subjective paradigm it is what is right to them or b) the majority of society has decided what is good and can force them to do it and/or punish them if they choose not to. Um, no. It's a good deal more complex than that. I think recognition of good and evil has to do with one's breadth of education and depth of reflection, because it involves empathy and the recognition of what all humans hold in common. So no, I don't think that morality in the absence of God is quite the caricature you're making it out to be. Are good and evil then defined by a majority vote? Were orgies and gladiator games morally right for Rome because the majority supported them? What about slavery? The Spanish conquests? The way one perceives such things depends upon the faculties at one's disposal - I believe a person with a decent knowledge of human history and culture and sufficient time to reflect upon it will come to a conclusion about such things that is near the center of the bell curve of what a wise person would call good. I'm sorry if that is not as clear cut as the dictates of a sky-daddy, but I don't believe there is a sky-daddy so we have to work these things out for ourselves. |
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Forget condoms as contraception except for protection from STD's, they are a primitive type of contraception, most doctors advise using a second form of contraception...there is no excuse these days... as is the Catholic Church...not unless you want to abstain. If all else fails there's always RU486. Be a girl scout...and be prepared |
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*The Catholic Church just released important information confirming that condoms have holes in them. That's because they still believe that all condoms are made out of pigs bladders. |
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catholic church is a total shame so many times |
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i think beatifying Mother Theresa is kinda nice though. |
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prro |
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indeed dont think the same about escribá de balaguer though |
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ProChoice of course |
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all pro-lifers need to mind their own fucking business and get real. |
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fleetmouse: ..but once again, this assessment works for you, but it might not work for everyone else, especially if we are subscribing to moral relativism. If one looks at human history and says I think Joseph Stalin and Genghis Khan were the best and I want to model them then who is anyone else to contest that, unless of course the majority disagrees and can force them not to behave in those ways. This of course being if there were no absolutes. In this way of thinking I am nothing more than a random set of processes that somehow worked out to put me here and I should be able to adjust my behavior to be just as random as those processes ... so long as the consequences don't bring me too much discomfort. Why be moral, why be just? We just made up these ideas anyway. I can completely liberate myself by doing whatever makes me feel good. Some might feel good by doing good deeds but what if I feel good by serving myself no matter what it may do to others. |
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against but pro choice i dont feel like telling people what to do and stuff but why cant you "just" have that baby and then give it away, you might not even want to do that then anymore. i'd not feel to happy being responsible for ending a life :( |
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I just hate Humans....I think this planet sucks, and we dont need more human trash... |
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..but once again, this assessment works for you, but it might not work for everyone else, especially if we are subscribing to moral relativism. So you object on the basis that some people might make bad choices? But the same bad choices are available and have been taken under your system too. If one looks at human history and says I think Joseph Stalin and Genghis Khan were the best and I want to model them then who is anyone else to contest that, unless of course the majority disagrees and can force them not to behave in those ways. In all my years of reading the Internet Infidels forum I have yet to see a single atheist / agnostic argue for the philosophy of "might makes right" or champion Genghis Khan as a role model. This of course being if there were no absolutes. In this way of thinking I am nothing more than a random set of processes that somehow worked out to put me here and I should be able to adjust my behavior to be just as random as those processes ... How wonderful is this fleeting temporary consciousness, and how magnificent it is that natural processes ahve combined to produce the web of life, some of it conscious, that exists on this planet. How cheap and meaningless it would be if it were merely some all-powerful being's parlor trick. so long as the consequences don't bring me too much discomfort. Why be moral, why be just? We just made up these ideas anyway. I can completely liberate myself by doing whatever makes me feel good. Some might feel good by doing good deeds but what if I feel good by serving myself no matter what it may do to others. It would be instructive to do a comparative study of the mentalities, behaviours and moral reasoning abilities of fundamentalist Christians on the one hand and evolutionary biologists on the other. Whwere do you think the average of each group would fall on ? |
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fcukin tyops |
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I'm kind of in the middle on this... I'm pro-choice (think the partial-birth thing should be banned tho), and I wish people would "choose life" (as the bumper stickers say) as often as possible. It's kind of a moot point for me though, given that I'm not going to get pregnant or get anyone pregnant. |
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I don't want to digress too far off the thread topic, and if we choose to continue perhaps we should start a different thread. The point I am trying to make is that under an athiestic, morally relative model absolute nihilism or anarchy is just as valid as the upright family man who gets to work on time and pays his taxes. There is no point to anything except what one decides the point is to them and there is no right or wrong. What one chooses is their choice. Once again I don't believe this, I do believe in moral absolutes. That is not to say that every situation is black and white, far from it. The reason we don't see total anarchy is because people have a conscience. Some supress their conscience more than others, but it in any case it is a built in mechanism that tells people what is right and what is wrong. A conscience can become seared over time if one supresses it for too long. I'm not sure how creation is a cheap parlor trick? Have you been outside lately? There is design everywhere. This does not happen by accident. Ok fine if you don't subscribe to Christianity, but doesn't it seem logical that there is something transcendant that made it all? Anyway I really don't want to go down that road of discussion again ... |
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Also, to address the point you made about Christians making all the bad choices that others make and worse. You are absolutely right. If you read the Bible you find that every person in there is shown for who they are, flaws and all. Some people who were considered to have a heart closest to God made some of the worst mistakes. It started of course with Adam who fell, Abraham was an idolator who ended up sleeping with his wife's handmaiden, Lot offered his two daughters to the people of Sodom in place of the angels who were his guests and later allowed them to get him drunk to sleep with him, David premeditated murder because of a woman, Peter denounced his Lord three times and the list goes on. The bible is about God's fogiveness. We also believe that Satan is in the world attempting to exploit the church, tempting people to sin, skewing doctrines and creating false ones, etc. Turn on TBN some time and watch this process at work. |
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How is it you know about creation? The Bible. The Bible doesn't say anthing that wasn't commonly known at the time and it even includes misconceptions and outright fallicies. Had it maybe revealed such things as: atomic structure, DNA, evolution, the galaxy, the universe, then maybe you could have reason to hold it as 'holy'. But that's not the point is it? Because there is no reason in belief. Sure, as an aetheist, I can deisgnate my own absolutes. Do I go out and hurt people because I know God doesn't exist? No, not at all. There's not a single nobel laureate that believes in the creation myth. Do you Christians know something that the leading minds and thinkers of the world don't know? The following chart says a lot about the whole creation legend. |
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At one time the church believed the world to be flat. This was based on passages in the bible where Jesus says that He will call angels from the four corners of the world. That was what it said, and that was that. When science discovered for sure that the earth was round the church decided that the passage is metaphorical in context, which should seem obvious but wasn't to the people of that day. No where in the bible does it say that the universe in its entirety was created less than 10,000 years ago. There are christians today who believe that the days described in Genesis are ages of time. This is based on the Hebrew word for day having the possible translations of a) 24 hrs., b) the daylight hours, or c) any long but definite period of time. for more information regarding the view of scripture. |
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I don't know where I stand on this issue of the days in Genesis. I think it is possible for God to create everything in 6 24 hr. periods of time in spite of what science has found because in some ways we are all still like that boy standing by the ocean with his tin cup. Science has also been wrong about a great many things in recent enough memory when taken in scale with the length of human civilization. |
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"Science has also been wrong about a great many things in recent enough memory" Like? Should be easy to name a few if there is such a great many. |
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btw that page also has articles that give scripture references that allude to an expanding universe and a lot of other items that science would agree with today. |
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Looks like a Christian Science website, is that what it is? |
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Here is one for you .. can't get the link thing to paste ... bertholf.net/commentaries/worstscience.html |
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no christian science is different |
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ugh dude..... i KNEW this would happen. have fun filling the spot i once did. |
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theologically they are conservative evangelicals, although there are those who believe in the traditional Genesis interpretation who would not say the same. The one guy is an astrophysicist while the other is a biologist. |
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page cannot be found. |
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heh .. |
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re: tibbar Heheh, I never tire of it. If I'm really bored I go to Yahoo! Christian voice chat rooms to argue. |
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http://www.bertholf.net/Commentaries/Worstscience.htm |
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i just come to the point where i realised... you know what? im not into the infinite debate. and i learned to recognise where and when that is. |
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yea I think I am about done for tonight myself, just wanted to get a few points out there. However there is this Haujobb thread that should be picking up but isn't for some reason. |
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Okay, I'm kind of looking through the first site right now, so I'm not going to reply probably for a little while. I just want to make the following statement> When you disprove a part of science, the rest doesn't fall apart; science can be revised, and in essence, that is what defines the scientific method. With science you conduct experiments to discover the outcome. Now I don't think you can disagree with the following two statments: 1. The Bible is the word of God. 2. The word of God is infallable. Am I right? Is this what you believe? So when Christians go out to conduct what they call 'science', they are working backwards. They aren't discovering, they are distorting truth. The only data/results that can be true, are data/results that agree with the Bible or else this would prove that: 1. The Bible is after all not the word of God, and/or, 2. God's word is fallable. ^That right there would cause the whole belief system to dissapate; there is nothing left if you remove either of those two "axioms" of the Christian faith. |
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i believe the bible is fallable, as far as being tainted. it has been, that much is known. but the things in there which ARE gold (first 5 books, for the most part, most of the new test) and are at there core unaltered, are correct. |
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see, ill admit the bibles been altered over time... some would say "edited" but i think you can check the truths in it by other facts in general life and by its core. |
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Revelation all the way back to Genesieee |
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i hope youre not saying what i think youre saying... dude, watch a history channel special one time on the bible. the fact that book shave been cut out, edited, etc... since before christ time make it hard to deny. but if you want to go that road... |
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I think there are other books out there that were inspired, perhaps. Certainly the Jews had more scriptures than we do today, as did the early church, but I also believe that God guided the formation of the canon and that every one of those books in the bible today is inspired. |
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Maybe God gives to people what is necessary for them at the time they are given, and takes away just the same. I don't know ... |
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i dont agree. |
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