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And extend that argument Key... if humans can't kill animals... will we allow other animals to kill animals? Why is it different? If you say because we have free will, then there's really not much reason to save the animals, since they have no free will anyways. If you say it's natural, then it's as natural for humans to do it, as it was part of our evolution. We are omnivores, not herbivores, even if we're moving in that direction. |
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...but that's more because they're stinking hippie liberals! ;) Sorry, obvious joke, but I couldn't resist it. Key Secret: We've lost the bacteria over the years to allow us to eat raw meat safely. However, I don't mind eating sterile raw meat from time to time, like blue steak. |
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it's illegal to kill some animals already. so why shouldn't it be illegal to kill all animals? |
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because its food. lions kill otherr animals to eat why can't humans |
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Why shouldn't it be illegal to kill all animals? Alright, I'm done... I'm laughing too hard now |
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Because I actually like (non biting) insects more than dogs. If you make it illegal to kill seagulls, pidgeons, rabbits etc. you should make it illegal to kill ants too. And that would be impractical as you kill insects all the time accidentally- eg when you drive a car or even use public transport. |
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lions are predators : they should kill their food. We are not predators. Like Ceri JC wrote we cannot digest raw meat. If you can't eat something in its raw state, why do you think you are meant to eat it? You can't create something artificial and believe it to be better than nature. |
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why arre we not meant to eat it? without meat ourr brrains would not be what they arre today, so this stupid arrgument would not exist. |
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yeah I know... I wasn't serious with that argument... The thing is if you are aware of the culture/nature idea of mine you also know that creating laws in a society implies that people are not acting naturally. |
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You can't eat olives in their natural state, you have to marinade them for hours. You can't eat acorns in their natural state, they are poisonous. Etc, etc |
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I don't know about you, but I'm a predator, I'm sure as hell not prey |
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If we can't digest something in its raw state, we are not meant to eat it. Our organism is created to digest things like raw fruit and raw vegetables. |
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well who saids all vegetables/fruit are for humans? We're not the only herbivores on the planet. |
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I dunno, rape is "natural" among humans, but I'd rather there was a law to prevent it. Killing people in a rage is also "natural" for us, but I'd rather that was illegal too... |
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For me being vegetarian/vegan has several parts to it. Why do we love one animal, give it names and have them as a pet, and do we only use others to produce the maximum amount of food in the shortest period of time possible? It's not so hard to understand that these last animals suffer a lot. Being vegetarian startd for me when I thought about that suffering. Again: vegetarians/vegans aren't perfect, and those who don't use soap or so are extreme and so on. The only thing I'm tring to do here is explain why people become vegetarian/vegan. And those extremists aren't representative for a large amount of people who are vegan but still use soap and so on. |
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We have to create techniques, weapons and so on to kill animals. So I'm not too sure about humens being prey or predator. But that of course would be in a natural environment. |
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hahahaha this is so silly. we can eat it because we arre smarrt enough to. we arre not unintelligent crreaturres. why have a brrain if we can't use it to crreate nice foods. and fuck plasic is is man made, hell we can't be meant to use it. go and sit in a field naked. |
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if you are a predator why do you not kill your own meat and eat it in its raw state? If you cannot do that - you are not a predator. There's a classic example that goes something like, if you give a human baby an apple and a rabbit. What will it eat, and what will it play or something with? We're not natural predators, we can't kill that many animals when using our bodies only. We're not fast and not very strong and have nothing to tear them up with, like claws or sharp teeth. Sure we can eat insects, but still, you get my point. |
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Indeed, but food is something totally different than clothing and so on. And again: I'm only eating what I think is best for my body. And I 'm not convincing anyone here. I'm only trying to give the reasons that made me go vegetarian (and might someday get me intoa vegan diet). |
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no... you don't understand the argument completely. but it's a pretty theorethical argument, and it would take generations to get to it... In nature animals that are born "sane" act natural in "regular" situations. If somebody does something, they can be upset and so on. but still, humans do not need laws, especially when our system of preventing and solving crimes doesn't work. |
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"We can indeed fight nature." Yup, but if we won the battle we'd find ourselves on the losing side. I'm not going to try and validate those stats I wrote earlier. If you don't beleive them that's fine. You clearly have an irrational loathing of people who choose a non-meat diet. So any argument put forward would be just like pissing in the wind. Oh, one thing though you said though... "If "the whole world" were to change in that direction, great, I'd jump aboard." Why? Have you not the courage to do it now? Do you need to wait until everyone else is doing it first? Pfft! Sounds a bit sheepish to me. Baaaaa! |
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Ah right, a Jungian rather than Freudian type philosophy (in broad terms)? It's more that modern life and rules make us "evil" than stop us acting in "evil ways", is that what you mean? (roughly speaking) don't worry, I won't argue about fundamental beliefs with people, it doesn't change them and they won't change me :) |
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Well I haven't read so much of that, and I don't agree totally... It's more that modern life and rules make us "evil" than stop us acting in "evil ways", is that what you mean? But evil does not exist in nature. And I think there are several reasons that it does exist. Some of them might seem weird so I'm not going to name them now, but they are sortof on the same subject; in the nature/culture thing. I believe that the law-system we have today is fucked in the ass. It doesn't help anyone; not the victims and not the criminals. |
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It's kinda weird actually talking about "evil" when such a thing does not exist. I do believe there are justified and unjustified actions though... |
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if meat eaters went out and killed your own animals and did your own dirty work instead of hiding it in warehuses, Id have no problem with it. paying a killing machine to do it for you is ludicrous, the animals get treated horribly and thats why theres so much diseased food. if I did eat meat I would buy meat that was produced without chemicals\hormoes\pesticides and where the animals lived freely and not in cages all the time. another fun fact for you: most meat at fast food places is over a year old by the time you eat it, they just add A LOT of perservatives. (also if i did eat meat I would never go to fast food places, i hope none of you do anyways) |
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yeah the most evil part about the commercial meat industry is that it takes away the animals freedom. All animals should be free!... |
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"Indeed, but food is something totally different than clothing and so on. " but it still apply's. if things arre only meant to be used if they arre as we need them the second we toucthed them we would live in a fields naked. it applys to everrything not just food. humans arre not the only ones who do things to food. take cockatiels. they crrack the seed out of the shell beforre they eat it. |
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I follow your reasoning, but for my personal way of living, I think that eating as natural and healthy as possible (I believe, yes only believing), is important. If I would be leaving for a deserted island, I would take a knife with me to kill an animal if necessary. But I would not steal their freedom, stuff them up with food as fast as possible for profit. But that's what I would do, I'm not saying what others should and shouldn't do. |
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you don't understand this, you don't understand that, you just don't get it....hopping through the forest in a loin cloth eating nuts and berries is so complex! sanguine, you are my hero. |
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It's not sheepish If the entire world went on board, we'd be making vegetarian products that were quality. There is a restaurant in San Francisco called "greens" which maks fantastic vegan food. If there was food that tasted that good and was affordable, I'd have a good reason to change. Either way it's a lot of work to make it into a healthy diet. For that reason I do not eat at fast food places more than once every few months, and usually cause my mates do. I know all the horror stories, and I don't like to eat that type of food. And hey, you try and go catch your food on a regular basis and see how it goes. With the amount of people hunting already, animal populations are getting scarce, don't suggest that unless you're willing to see even worse consequences. Cause I'd be fully willing to hunt my own food if it was an option. Check that... maybe there is an easy way to solving the problem... OPEN SEASON ON HUMANS!! |
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eeeww disgusting |
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I'm turned on now |
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i'm becoming vegetarrian. i'm waiting till next week then i'm getting a cook book so i can eat well. i'm also only drrinking soy milk etc... not vegan exactly, i'm not going to be that strrick. but i'm not eating eggs eitherr. |
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i wonder if you could become vegetarian finally :) |
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there's only one thing that could make me become a vegetarian. kylie minogue. |
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why kylie? she loves sex with vegetables? |
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i'd do anything for her ;) |
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i see, and if she said "bark!" ? :D |
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COOK HER WHOLE! |
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woof! |
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humans can digest raw meat. eskimo's eat raw seal. it's common to eat raw beef, carpaccio, beef sashimi. raw fish, sushi, oysters, clams. raw insects, meal worms, larve. well eating raw bugs is not necessarily common around here but still... humans cannot, however, digest cellulose a main vegitable matter. that's what makes it such a good source of fiber. |
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