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Yeah I get your point. Although I assume most vegans have done some reading (or gathered info elsewhere). But if you compare a healthy "regular" diet with a healthy vegan diet, the vegan diet is WAY healthier. And a healthy rawfood vegan diet is of course even healthier. |
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I don't know... I think I'd be bored if there was too much peace and harmony. I'd rather cause controversy and keep my ADHD raddled brain in full multifaceted wonder. Oh well... I need to sleep, I have a final in 7 hours |
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you know...other animals eat other animals... |
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yes well there are so many diet related diseases that cost the state millions every year both in sweden and in finland.. it's a real problem, heart and vascular diseases and most of them could have been avoided with a good diet |
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my bf has bad add and still he is vegan(ish) (the ice cream) |
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There is evidence to the contrary on both parts key... science is notoriously finicky when it comes to "proving" health one way or another. Too many variables to consider. Most vegans I know got their information and beliefs from the social group they first subscribed to veganism from and don't question it. Like most religous people I know I mean look at their web sites... huge scare tactics... bleh... I'm sleeping... I'll continue this tomorrow if anyone cares |
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you are completely losing me. i think that healthy = healthy. of course if you take a really healthy vegan diet and you take a fairly healty "regular" diet, the vegan will win out...but if they are both the same level of healthy, then they are equally healthy. so what are you talking about here... |
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Exactly that, that vegans are not necessarily "more healthy" because they are vegan, it's not a good argument for becoming vegan |
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yeah... I don't want to make some stupid reasoning here, but yes some animals are carnivores, others are herbivores. Humans are obviously herbivores. Just because you can eat meat doesn't mean it's healthy. You can't eat raw meat which makes a fucking point. Cooking food is a cultural bad habit, and should be avoided. |
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eating meat / drinking milk is not good for you. That is my point. |
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yes, it is so obvious that we are herbivores, that is why no humans ever eat meat. |
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meat is even better than milk in adult age.. in a health way.. |
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i was gonna say something.....but phiz summed up my opinion about 9 posts down from the top. |
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yes, it is so obvious that we are herbivores, that is why no humans ever eat meat. What do you actually mean by that? That if a lot of people do something = it's healthy. Bad reasoning. the amount of people who do something does not make that "something" better. Too many people do not know themselves very well. If people knew something about nutrition and what the things you decide to eat actually do to your body - we would see a much healthier world... |
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didn't eat meat for almost 10 years, i didn't stop eating it from some concious reason, guess my organism just didn't get along with it, i didnt lose any weight though, i gained some... now i eat meat sometimes, in small amounts... i need proteins too and i got a bit anaemic. i live in a meateating country, you just can't be a vegan here, i tried but i starved for about a week, you just can't buy soy cheese or something like that, that can substitute mik, eggs and stuff like that.. can't live on vegetables |
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well OBVIOUSLY i was commenting on your use of the word OBVIOUSLY...i didn't say anything about it being healthy, i just meant that maybe it isn't as obvious as you say it is. |
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true. you vegan girls are great. And the concept of milk - I just laugh at it. Drinking another animals milk? just like Morgoth put it; it's designed for the calve not for human beings. This past year has been one of the most interesting experiences of my life. I have realized so much, and a lot of that probably has to do with me (through a friend) discovering the rawfood diet... People who understand the vegan diet do not critize it. One should know what one eats. Experiencing different diets is a way of finding out what effect they have on you. However you can't experience a diet for a short time, you have to do it for a longer period of time. |
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I'm not vegetarian, I love meat! Yummy!! |
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the funny thing is that i've got no problem with the vegan diet....just with people who think they're the top shit over what they eat! :) |
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I like to use the word obviously when it is so fucking obvious. The people who do not think it's obvious haven't thought about it enough. It may sound real weird, but it's the way it is. We're mostly discussing facts here. |
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we're not discussing anything, you're preaching.. |
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the funny thing is that i've got no problem with the vegan diet....just with people who think they're the top shit over what they eat! :) Well. It's good you accept it. But I wish you could understand the concept here. for your own cause (and others of course). You can eat a vegan diet bouth for the health reason and the ethical reason. The ethical reason involves other individuals than you, but the healthreason is JUST ABOUT YOU. So eating a vegan diet is taking good care of your body; which results in you feeling better, understanding the world better. When I write "vegan diet", I of course mean "healthy vegan diet"... More people should listen to (healthy) vegans. |
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I agree.. |
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So it may seem to you, unfortunently. But I am not doing it for myself. Fuck, if I didn't care about other people I wouldn't write it here. But the thing is that it takes time for some people to understand the vegan diet, so hearing about it, or "discussing" it with vegans, really helps. If you think you're fine eating a standard diet, you're way off... I am writing this for all of you people to think about your life; what is cultural and what is natural? Can you motivate everything about your life? If you can't, or do something just because you've "always done it", you should sit down and about it think--until you can motivate everything about your life. It's an important part of understanding the world better. |
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It is wrong for you to force your ideals on others....you shouldn't do that That being said, would you like a Big Mac and Fries? :P |
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Pros: When you go out for a curry, the vegetarian options are much cheaper than the meat ones. Cons: Despite what you think, you will very rarely be served food in restaurants that contain no meat at all. Most chefs I've spoken to just don't take it seriously and have the "if they don't know, it can't hurt them" attitude. |
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as I wrote, I am sorry if it seems like that, since that gives my posts a bad "vibe" (I assume). But you look upon it like this for several reasons, one is you don't have enough respect for me. If your parents, or someone you look up to, (as a vegan) had discussed the vegan diet with you (and of course talk about it in a real discussion, not just in posts on a messageboard), I'm sure you would think about the content of the discussion differently. |
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congratulations on being enlightened! really i am happy for you. |
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I am not forcing my ideals on anyone. If you have an argument against my arguments, please tell me. I am not trying to "be right" here. I never do in discussions (since I don't learn anything then, but just stick to something old). My only aim here is to make you nonvegans question your vegan diet. There is a lot more questioning to do (when making the world a better place), but becoming a vegan is a good start, because it will also improve YOUR life (if you do it right of course). |
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yup, it's kind of the same thing as those anti-marijuana public service announcements. the older brother smokes dope in front of his little brother, and his little brother wants to grow up just like him! i am not anti-vegan diet, and i am not interested in defending my diet to you because i really don't think it's worth it. in my experience, vegan is pretty much synonymous with self-righteous. |
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damn... I still look like a preacher? I don't want do that... sorry for that, and please do question me. I guess the best advice I can give to you is to talk to some decent vegan, if you want to know more on the subject. And if you don't; well it will affect your life, more than you will ever know, but it's your decision. Although as you might understand from the past sentence it's not a fair decision, since you do not know what it's about really (without trying out bouth diets)... |
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okay mr "im not trying to "be right" here," explain yourself! "I like to use the word obviously when it is so fucking obvious. The people who do not think it's obvious haven't thought about it enough. It may sound real weird, but it's the way it is. We're mostly discussing facts here." now, the facts part of that post seem to imply that you're trying to be right... |
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yup i'm uninformed because i heat my food up..... |
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yup, it's kind of the same thing as those anti-marijuana public service announcements. the older brother smokes dope in front of his little brother, and his little brother wants to grow up just like him! yeah it's my point. If all people knew about the natural/cultural situation (as I like to call it, don't know the real word for it) we would have a so much healthier world. |
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"I like to use the word obviously when it is so fucking obvious. The people who do not think it's obvious haven't thought about it enough. It may sound real weird, but it's the way it is. We're mostly discussing facts here." yeah. I was thinking about wether I should write that or not, and then I decided to do it, because that is how I look at it. Some things are just really logical, but unless you understand it it's a mess. I'm not saying I care more about people than you, but when I know about something that could improve the life of others, of course I want to tell them about it. |
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meat is good for your body! |
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yup i'm uninformed because i heat my food up..... hehe. even vegans heat their food. Rawfoodists don't however, and it's because there isn't just a good enough reason to do it, when eating for nutrition. I don't know what people think but I think atleast the "big meals" of the day should be eaten for the nutrition. Any nutrionist (the right word?) will not agree on the rawfooddiet, but all of them wil tell you to that a big part of your diet should consist of raw fruit / vegetables. |
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too many tasty meaty dishes. too many of my favorite foods involve animal products. lets see... 1. sushi - oh god yes. i love sushi 2. carne asada 3. carnitas 4. tonkatsu 5. tempura 6. bacon n eggs for breakfast 7. the infamous "paul burger" - 2 parts beef, 1 part sausage. grill to perfection. serve with bacon and a fried egg on top. listen to your heart struggle to beat. mad tasty. i have vegan and veggi friends. they are cool as long as they keep their politiking out of my belly. |
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"Any nutrionist (the right word?) will not agree on the rawfooddiet, but all of them wil tell you to that a big part of your diet should consist of raw fruit / vegetables" you couldnt be more right, except you forgot that most of this nutricists would tell you to eat meat as well (in small quantities ofcourse!) |
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well. I wasn't wrong either :) you couldnt be more right, except you forgot that most of this nutricists would tell you to eat meat as well (in small quantities ofcourse!) I didn't say they didn't tell you to eat meat, since most of them do (in small quantities like you said). I urge all people here to do some studying in the area of nutrition. It's really important. I've only discussed the health-thing about the diet here, not the ethical thing... |
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Oh as an aside, I was a vegetarian for about 10 years, I then started eating meat again and now I'm somewhere inbetween. I regularly eat fish, but read meat and poultry only very occasionally. Whilst I don't have a go at vegans, for their diet (so long as they're not one of these whining "meat is murder" bitches...) I've yet to meet one in the flesh I'd deem "healthy". I must have met about 10-15 and they all seemed: dangerously underwater, had an unhealthy complexion, rather lank hair and weren't very strong. Whilst I don't doubt it's possible to live a healthy life as a vegan, very few vegans seem to. I live with a med student (who already has a degree in Biology) and he says that it's very unhealthy and unnatural. The fact people have only been vegans for the past 50 years or so and many use synthesised vitamin supplements etc. to maintain a healthy balance show jsut how unnatural and fake it is. I don't buy into this "years ago we just ate nuts and berries". Bollocks, why do we have incisiors (fang like teeth)? Also without modenr medicine, I doubt few would survive hundreds of years ago. You need some body fat for times when there wasn't much food about. And if a "primitive" human was hungry, there is no way they wouldn't kill a chicken etc. and eat it. |
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the american dietist's society (not being a vegan semi-religious thing, I understand what Sanguine meant, and there's a point in there that loads of vegans only get infor from convinced organisations) has stated that a well balanced vegan diet is beneficial can be beneficial for your health. Then again, I'm not trying to convnce anyone here, I'm just explaining why people don't eat meat and so on. There are pros and cons, and for me the pros have won from the cons. I just want anyone to know that a vegan diet can suply all essential nutrients (yes, even B12). |
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dangerously underwater = dangerously underweight :) Too much swimming on the brain! |
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The key here is that you need to have a balanced diet. I mean, only eating french fries will not give all nutrients, as does only eating steak will not give you everything. As a vegan, you should take a littel more care about getting everything, but you do not need supplements. Loads of people use them, but if you take time to investigate this matter, so that you know where to get what vitamin/mineral/amino acid, it's perfectly possible to live without supplements. |
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yeah dude. It's actually business to scare people to take pills. Morgoth how do you get your b12? I get it from different things... Some people say the best way is to get it from dirt (e.g. by not washing your organic greens) so I'll probably get it from there in the future. |
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I am not vegetarian... I love meat!!! but I love vegetarian food too!! I love to eat really |
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He he, there's meant to be something in soil that is addictive if you eat too much of it.. watch out if you start rolling your carrots about in the garden before eating them! |
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yep, being responsible for what you eat is essential. You have a healthy attitude towards your diet, and I dig that about you. I have a healthy attitude to, eventhough I may seem fanatic ;) sometimes I just get the feeling like; aw I should discuss this with people / tell people about this. so I do. |
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I'm not a vegan actually. I am a vegetarian, but I've always been interested in being vegan and one day will become one. It's just that right nog I don't have time to spend loads of time on searching for the right foods and there is not too much supply here (I'm living in a city based around a university and mostly you can only find junk food here so veganism would be unhealthy). But as far as I know, you can get your B12 by not washing organic vegetables too hard, as certain bacteria produce it. And furthermore: we hardly need any B12, it's just in such a small concentration that we need it, and our body can recycle it (just coming back from a physiology exam, so I know a bit what I'm saying here). |
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haha... didn't know about that. |
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