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 Now online (2)big dariusgriffin ...and 302 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614249 Today 18 Topics 127550 |
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I wonder why Indonesia haven't taken over Australia yet, lol <--- this is the gooon talking ;) |
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better watch your cartoons :D |
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okay mates, I've enjoyed this discussion but alas I must leave now and go raving :P yes, I know its a sunday but this is a special rave y'see, its a charity thingy for ppl who lost their houses in bushfires *sniff* night :) (damn i wish they were playing drukqs at this thing :P) |
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lol drukqs isnt very clubish enjoy :) |
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You say destroying, others say liberating... |
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ahah yeah the babies that gonna blow say liberty :) |
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they need a mother !!! mother of all bombs |
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i diserve five points for that last post |
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You don't have any alternatives though do you? If we don't go into Iraq the Iraqis could still be suffering under Husseins decades from now. |
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ok so you dont see on your tv that the inspectors actually find and destroy more bombs every day of course iraq lies, but i dont think they will go against totall peacefull disarm.. really.. they have no solutions except a global kamikaze, they wont. they wanna live. when its disarmed, hussein can be arrested ok? even if he decides at the very end to blow when they catch him then what ? people will take democracy by themselves they dont need bush dudes... respect other cultures bombs are not very full of respect although it could be so in a modern art gallery ;) |
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cant you see dead people everywhere ? |
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but i can understand maybe you only see information through cnn and such, it makes me feel sorry coz its everything except information... medias in europe arent excellent neither, but we can have our own opinion easier |
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One question remains: where does bush get the right to overthrow other governments? I do not say I'm fond of Sadam, I just don't think any country has the right to just overthrow another government. And I do believe this will have fundamentalist consequences, Bin Laden is always talking about palestines and Iraqi's and so forth. I just don't believe that you can fight violence with violence. And is there actually any proof of any link between Sadam and Al Quaida? |
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al kaida is a joke its a word used to globalize the phenomenon of terrorism. it s real but its only one group, there are tons of mini groups like that, and some of them dont even know people of al kaida. bush wanna fight against ghosts. but yeah violence leads to suffering, etc fuck yoda |
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The UN inspectors aren't finding and destroying bombs every day. What have the found so far? A few shell casings, the Al-Samoud II and a UAV. That's it. None of these have been voluntarily disclosed to the inspectors. Well, the UAV was disclosed, but innacurately. As with everything, the Iraqis just give away as much as they think they can get away with. Anyone can see this. The chances of anyone coming along and arresting Saddam without a military intervention are negligible, as are the chances of popular uprising. |
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I have all kinds of information sources, some like CNN I only use for factual info such as who did what and when. For interpretation I find Channel 4 news here to be the best. |
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I think there's a strong moral case for removing a government that oppresses it's own people. Human rights that transcend borders and our commitment to upholding them must transcend borders too. |
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ahah so why saddam is not killing all the inspectors with a big insane grin? try to stay realist... bush is as evil as saddam. |
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"I have all kinds of information sources, some like CNN I only use for factual info such as who did what and when. For interpretation I find Channel 4 news here to be the best. " ok then i understand you, no problem.. i saw a reportage on channel 4 too, they seem pretty nasty in their ways to treat information |
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I believe talking about human rights in USA is stupid. There's one western country that hasn't signed the universal declaration of human rights, the USA indeed. Furthermore: I don't linke oppressing governments either. I hate it. But we can not just overthrow it from the outside. I had this discussion with my girlfriend some time ago, and we as western people have our own values and beliefs which are totally diferent from muslims. We cannot continue with this cultural imperialism. And if human rights are the issue, why isn't Bush doing something against China, and so many other countries, why does death penalty still exist...? |
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What do you mean by nasty? |
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I'm not saying Bush is a champion of human rights, never have. It just so happens that what's about to happen in Iraq coincides with what *I* think is right. We may be different from Muslims in many ways, but I don't think you'll find many Muslims who would volunteer to live under a regime that routinely tortures it's own citizens and has gassed them in the past. |
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I think its you who needs a dose of realism! |
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I'm not saying that I know everything, but just overthrowing a government is useless. That's what I'm saying. You should offer an alternative, one that is not based on our western way of thinking! Before you do that, everything is useless. You will replace one bad regime by another one that we like, but that the population dislikes just as much. (and I never meant that the Iraqi's are happy with their present regime). I believe that in the present state of things war is not justified, and will do the Iraqi people even more harm than the continuation of the present government. Everything will need to be rebuild, a process that will take decades. And the people over there aren't well informed. Muslim press will totally talk bad about USA. 11.09 was a revenge for wars from before. Stop this violence. And definately watch "bowling for columbine", it's a good movie that explains loads of links. |
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Given a choice, there isn't a population on earth (except perhaps The Vatican), that wouldn't want a democratic government in their country. |
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america brings you democracy ? waaawww tell me how ? |
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This topic was made a year ago? Fucking hell... |
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Everyone on earth would want a democacy? Where did you find this knowledge? Have you read the minds of all humans? It just so happens that for instancein Russia the comunist party is gaining again. I'm not a commie, but there the people have a democracy! And again, the only thing I'm saying is that it is useless to overthrow from the outside. It has to come from within. The people there should be helped, instead of being killed. And lastly: we have no right to go on with our western cultural imperialism. The only thing we're after is more profits. The muslims have another way of life, that doesn't fit with our capitalist view of things. They lived relatively peacufull amongst each other for 1000's of years. Most of their wars began when europeans started colonizing and interfering in their countries. Hasn't history taught america nothing? |
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Im sure I heard he had drawn up the plans against Iraq just after Sept. 11th! |
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I didn't say everyone on earth would want a democracy, but I guarantee a vast majority in every country would. There's no reason why the Iraqi regime shouldn't be toppled from the outside. The Iraqis are in no position to do it themselves. They may not like who is doing it, but other than those who feed at Saddam's table they'll all be glad he's gone. You're speaking nonsense about muslims having another way of life that doesn't fit in with our capitalist way of thinking. I would say capitalism has served the oil-rich muslims of the Arab world very well. I'm not sure how capitalism is relevant though. Iraq, like virtually all other countries, is a capitalist state, nothing going to change there. |
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Capatalism has only served the rich, those who posses the oil sources. The poor who used to be farmers benefitted nothing. As I said, before the western imperialism reached muslim countries, there were no big problems. Where did Sadam gain his power? He got weapons from the US in the 80's. Rumsfeld himself was one of them who under the Reagan regime came to Iraq to talk about weaponry. Then, the americans supported the war against Iran, nog Saddam has no purpose for them, so he has te leave. And capitalism is the key issue. Oil is important and part of this war has to do with oil. And ever read anthropologist books? Muslims do have another way of living, and we as western people have no right to decide what's better for them! |
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yep oh god ! see we are both from "the old europe" oh maybe just france and deutschland don't know why but im sure the countries between are included |
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Muslims may have a different way of living, but wanting to live under a regime that tortures and kills them probably isn't part of it. The constant bringing up of past events is tiresome. The world changes, alliances and loyaties change. |
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the storm joins the battle |
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a strong one |
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i just hope it ends quickly and safely and all the troops (my cousin and friends from high school) come home safely.. and whatever bad intentions the war is based that freedom will be brough to the iraqis |
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