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A good buy? i'm going to use it for scratch (2x technics sl1210MK2, hopefully), but I also want to put other sound-sources through it. |
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no-one to spread some knowledge? |
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If you want it predominantley for scratching, I'd recommend . Similar price and a great mid level scratch mixer. I've not used the Matrix 3, but I've used several Numark mixers and I've not had any complaints with them. Jonesy has a similar one to that (but designed more for house/beatmixing), so bump when he's on. |
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BTW, if you're into skratching, have you seen ? Looks good, but open to abuse... (eg putting the well known scratch samples through a granular synth, recording and sequencing each part on a PC etc. ;-) |
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yeah, the reason why i thought the matrix 3 looked good, was that it had extra channels and inputs with EQ and stuff (which I will be needing, as I plan to put other things into the mixer). btw: what is a hamster-switch? |
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Hamster Switch = Crossfader reverse button/switch. (named after a scratch crew called something like "the bullet proof scratch hamsters"!) Basically makes channel 1 become channel 2 and vice versa. A similar effect is acheivable with by simply wiring the decks in the "wrong" way, but of course, then your upfaders and EQs, etc. are also switched. It makes certain scratches a lot easier, but some people tend to use it on all the time and others don't use it. Personally, I use it for most scratches, but it's not very intuitive for beat juggling or beat mixing. |
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ok. maybe you know about the rest of the features on this mixer too? I think I know what it's all about, but I can never be sure. I would really appreciate a full explanation if you have the time (I am actually more or less determined to buy this, as I've managed to find some pretty good reviews, but I'm still not completely sure of what it is I am buying) . |
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Ok, it looks like: You can plug in any combination of 3 of the following: 3 phono (turntable) devices, 6 line out devices (CD player, synths drum machine etc.) the line in ports will be that small jack size, so if you have a synth/whatever you'll probably need a convertor jack to attach it. I've no idea what "Process looping w/ blend control" refers to. Sounds like marketing bollocks to me. From the looks of things, there are cue switches on each channel including headphones, which means you can listen to say, channel 1 and 3 in the headphones while channel 2 and the mic plays out of the master. You can put the master cue switch on and hear what's coming out of the master speakers through your headphones. The optical fader gives slightly better life (crossfaders wear out) to the crossfader, they normally allow the "curve" of the crossfader to be adjusted to (I'm assuming that's what "slope" refers to in the spec). This basically allows you to set it to a sharp cut in for scratching or a soft, gentler curve for beat mixing. The only downside of optical faders I've heard of (although I've never experienced it myself) is that if you're in a smokey environment, like a nightclub with an overly keen on the dry ice/smoke machine lighting operator, the smoke can get in the fader and (temporarilly) bugger it up. Seperate input leds for each channel and master out are handy. Helps stop you fading something in too quietly/loudly. Punch in/out allow you to override eq/fader settings for that channel, the sound will come through even if the fader is all the way off for example. This can be used to get a stuttering type effect (hammer really fast) or tapped rhythmically in time to pushing/pulling the record for scratching (NB this is generally seen as cheating compared ot using the crossfader ;-) The kills do not entirely take out channels, but at -40db it's near enough. The fact they're for seperate eqs is good. You can get some nice effects like killing the treble, turning EQ po |
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turning EQ pot for treble to the left, unkilling the treble, then fading it back in using the EQ. The bass kills are also good to get rid of (or at least quieten) the kick drum if you're running out of time to beatmix and just want to fade. One thing I recommend you check is that the crossfader/upfaders are replaceable (they almost certainly will be), their rough life (scratch mixer life estimates are usually based around 1 hour a days use) expectancy and how much replacements cost. |
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ok. it says on the site where i'm going to buy it that the crossfaders are easily replacable, so that is ok, then. Thank you for your help! |
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No problem, let us know how you get on with it :) |
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will do. |
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uh. seems I have more questions. What is a stylus? |
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The needle on your cartridge, which is the think that (usually) sits on your headshell, which is the thing that screw into the tone arm of the record player. |
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*which is the thing. |
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ok. i was wondering because I want to buy the Ortofon Concorde Scratch cartridge. And as these things are expensive, I wanted to know if I had to replace the entire cartridge when it got worn out. but as the stylus is the needle, and those are less expensive, it is not a problem. |
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With the Ortofon Cocorde Scratch (and in fact all concorde carts), there's no need for a headshell, so the extra £15 apiece there (dunno if Mk2s come with headshells) for headshells will go a small way against the cost. The shure M447 is the standard (most popular) cartridge, but personally I prefer the Ortofon scratch concorde cartridge. I'm saving up for a pair myself. The stylus is replaceable, the replacements are about £20 each. A while ago there was a set of a pair of the carts in a small box, with a pair of spare carts and a cleaning brush for about £120. Sadly, wherever I look that has a similar deal now doesn't include the two spare styli. |
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Don't get this mixer for scratching, you will regret it, get a vestax pmc 06/05/07 pro, or a rane ttm56 or a technics dmc mixer thing, or an elcer hac. less is more when it comes to scratch mixers, punch in/out is a waste of time and space. the arrangement of this numark is not good for scratching, too many buttons in the way, and the surface is not flat. it talks the talk, but doesnt walk the walk. numark are second rate in most peoples opinion for this sort of thing. their new turntables have really high torque, but that doesn't necessarily equate to being a good turntable, and the mixers are decidely middle market. as for carts, if you have technices decks, get the shure m447s. if you have pdx2000s or similar prolly the concords are better. |
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Dave, have you seen the thing I linked to in my second post on this thread? The TTM56 is a bit of a different price range to the Matrix3 though, eh? ;-) I'm interested to see what the Rane Serato Scratch is like when that's released. I'm getting alone nicely with the 06 D, Got my crabs down to 4 clicks in under 1/3 of a second last week :D |
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yeah, i suppose that if you dont know what a stylus is (no offence, you've gotta start somewhere) then get a cheap one. I just get carried away. Serato scratch sounds crap, (not sonically). ive had a go on final scratch, and i reckon thats much better, but it depends, serato is a plug in for pro tools, but final scratch boots its own os, so has total control over the resources. you need to mod the fader on the 06 for better results. use the washer mod i said about to change the cut-in time approach, so you can do transitions from crabs to other things, like twidles to crabs is good, but tricky. |
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ehm.. about the "have to start somewhere." I don't believe in buying crap equipment when you're starting out, and then upgrading as you progress. Buy the good stuff right away, I say (and rhyme!). About the concorde scratch, it says that it is almost custom-built for the Technics SL 1210 MKII. The extra features on the Matrix 3 will probably be good for me. I'm planning on making entire tracks with two decks, and the variation of killing treble or bass would probably be useful. |
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bump. ka-cha! |
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I agree with you on buying good stuff straight away (once you know you like it and will stick at it!), I postponed getting my decks for months to buy a better setup. With regard to what dave said, the TTM56 mixer we were talking about (whilst having most of the functions you requiired) is very expensive- about £620... it's unlikely that you'd consider buying that instead of the matrix 3 as it's almost 3 times as expensive. You might like to consider . I've not had a go on this particular model, but the previous version was good and this adds an FX loop (FX loops take line ins so you could actually plug a synth/whatever in there as a third channel). |
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yeah, I've actually tried my hand at a vestax-mixer, as a friend of mine has one (i have asked him about this, but he only recommends me the gear he has, because he wants me to buy it from him so that he can get newer equipment...). about the TTM, yeah.. that would be too expensive (and maybe even it is so good that i'll need even better decks than the technics???). ehm. about the cartridge. the ortofon ones are good for just listening to music as well, right? |
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Re: The vestax mixer- until comparatively recently, when Rane became more prominent, vestax were the king of scratch mixers. IMO they still can't be touched for the price. The build quality is fantastic too. Technics would be fine for the TTM56- a lot of the big names (who aren't sponsored by Vestax) like Jazzy Jeff use that sort of setup :-) Scratch Cartridges are notorious for poor "listening" sound quality (compared to the non-scratch versions, eg the regular concorde carts), when I tried the ortofon scratch the headphones were pretty battered anyway, so I can't really say how much was due to the cart and how much was the headphones, but unless you've got a great amp/speakers it probably won't be too noticeable. If you really want high quality listening you'd need a proper deidcated single deck setup as part of a hi-fi, but for "normal" listening I find my turntables are fine. |
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d'you think it would be lots of trouble just buying another cartridge and switching it when I want to listen to music? I don't know how much trouble it is switching the cartridge yet. |
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It'd normally be a real pain in the arse switching cartridges (as opposed to headshells) round all the time, but with concorde carts, there's no need for a headshell anyway. So, if you want to get a cart for listening you'd either need to get another sort of concorde one, or attach a normal cart to the headshell. Also, bear in mind that if you're scratching, you'll probably have the weight on the tone arm up high. You should reduce this when just listening (better sound quality and less record wear). |
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ok. thanks for your help. I think I pretty much have all the answers I need now.. I think... maybe.. "possibly maybe." |
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I doubt that you could tell the difference between most cartridges for listening quality. Yes, some have better frequency responses than others, but generally, apart from the cheap ones, they are all reasonable, some are more reasonable than others. Some cost lots more and are very good, but you want want these with scratch decks, infact you will wanna get decent carts with rega planars or similar expenisive hifi audiophile listening decks. I think that you should go with the djing option, and if you find the sound quality for listening to be poor, then get a proper listening only turntable as well. Oh and I wasn't necessarily saying get the cheap stuff, get middle range things, because cheap=nasty and can put you off and be lots of hassle, i.e. belt drive decks (get direct drive). However, good gear will set you back around £1000, for a alright mixer and couple of alright decks, and a quality setup, is more like £1200, so a fairly substancial sum. My first setup cost me around £450 quid, and was ideal, not too advanced, not too crap. It gave me equipment good enough to get me hooked, but also left a few quid for vinyl. NOTE: leave lots of money for vinyl. you will spend much much more on records than gear, even if you don't want to. |
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Yeah, I already know about the vinyl. I will probably want to learn beatmatching and mixing, and will probably have to buy two copies of some of the records. I will start buying lots and lots of vinyl once I get the deck. |
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"NOTE: leave lots of money for vinyl. you will spend much much more on records than gear, even if you don't want to." Damn true! Even though initially I planned to buy a final scratch and only buy a small proportion of my music on vinyl, I've ended up buying far more records than I ever did with CDs. One thing to consider is buying your decks second hand, especially if you're getting technics- technics are exceptionally durable and as they're comparativly simple, it's easy to check they're working okay. The money you save on them can be put towards getting a better, brand new mixer (which you really have to check thoroughly when buying second hand). Also, if you are buying brand new and you're getting a whole setup from the same place, buy it all together and ask for a discount. I've heard of people getting almost £200 off the list price when buying a £1400 setup. |
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Re: Learning to beatmix. My advice would be two copies of the same house record. Anything with a 4/4 very simple, 133bpm (or thereabouts) beat. Once you can mix it into itself, get a couple more house records and learn to alter the pitch slightly to get them in time. Even if you don't like house music, it's the easiest to learn on. I swear part of the reason house is so popular is that even technically poor DJs can mix comparatively well with it. Only noise is easier ;-) |
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Yeah buy two copies of a record with a simple beat. Then buy super duck breaks 1 and 2 Then peanut butter breaks by peanut butter wolf Then heehaw breaks Then practice (Then show up Ceri :P) Oh and Ceri, mixing noise is probably the most difficult thing. white noise is completely random, so mixing it is a bitch ;) On a similar note, for a great effect, partially unplug one of you phono cable to the decks so it buzzes at 50hz (60 for yanks) and cut that. |
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Dave, what battle records, aside from those you mentioned, do you recommend? I like DJ Rectangle's Ultimate Battle Weapon series and Also Cutmaster Swift's Battle Breaks. |
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i don't really want to buy house-records, as I really dislike house. i will probably be okay with two singles from methodman (method: straight forward), though, and then, I can probably mix the acapella and the beat as well. |
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Ceri, the DJ rectangle series is rubbish. I have a couple of them, and I got them when I first started out. After I bought some better records, I realised that DJ rectangle is actually poo. Once you get a proper record, you can see how all the samples lead in to one another, whereas dj rectangle has just random samples maybe on a theme, maybe not. Something like heehaw breaks has one side full of samples only, and they all inter-relate. The super duck breaks 1 and 2 LPs are really good, the two ive got have some really rough samples where I have used them for scratching so much they are lofi :) they are great for practicing. have a look at for some good real audio demos. I recommend: roli rho: abodo breaks (very nice instrumentals) peanunt butter wolf: peanut better breaks (very nice instrumentals) dj butchwax(actually dj flare): hee-haw breaks (tons of samples) at least one unskippable tool, e.g. ' Y ' Dj Qbert:Bionic Booger Breaks Drum crazy vol 1 and 2. Something from dj craze -------------- some of the ones i have are white labels, or very limited runs by 'dj nobody' or some unheard of producer, so basically have a dig for them. |
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I like the single shot hit samples and some of the instrumentals are good, but I agree the scratch sentences and general layout are awful. Also, whoever does the cover art needs to be shot. I know not all genres are as 1337 as IDM, but those early-mid 90s style CGI images suck sooooo bad. I got D-styles' "Gag-ball Breaks" at the weekend, great record and at long last I have that synth sound used by the Scratch Perverts in their DMC 2000 routine :) |
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battle records? fancy word for sample records? |
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Battle Wax/Battle Records/Battle Breaks/Mix Tools etc. Annoyingly, a lot of record stores file them under "breaks" So you get battle wax next to Freeland etc. There's no set definition to battlewax, but typically: They have a few largely instrumental hip hop/electro track and they have a few "scratch sentences" (load of scratch samples like, "Ahhhh", "Fresssh", etc. in a sensible/easy to use order.) You get other things like locked grooves (continuous loop- a sort of intentional stuck record), pitched tones (tuned to say, C), Spoken word intros and/or disses and "unskippable" (same sample runs parallel over many grooves- even if it skips, you don't lose the place in the sample) scratch samples on others. |
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Dave, you seen/hard any of the bastrd language tour (d-styles & friends)? Turntable music that doesn't sound like turntable music... it's almost like a real danceroom/lounge band from the samples I've heard. |
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So have you bought any gear yet? Or just still saving for that killer setup I mentioned? |
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hehe.. well.. I'm waiting for it. It seems the page with the mixer on special offer is rearranging their catalogue, so I'll have to wait for them to finish to see if it is still on offer there. If it isn't I'll find some other place to buy it. I'm actually still waiting for the Technics SL-1210 to get here... they sent me a mail saying they were out of stock and had to order... the good thing about this is that by the time it arrives, I will probably have enough money for a better djmixer than the matrix 3, but we'll have to wait and see.. i'm going to Roskilde this year as well, so that will swallow some of my money... |
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It's well worth the wait. Just don't forget to get some decent slip mats and shure cartridges for the decks. I'm sure the mixer will be good, but probabl won't last as long as the decks. Although as you know, its an expensive hobby. The equipment is one thing, but buying all those records as well! Argggh! the amount you will spend! Worth it though! |
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re: Slipmats BUTTER RUGS BUTTER RUGS BUTTER RUGS BUTTER RUGS BUTTER RUGS! Seriously, Thud Rumble's Butter Rugs V.2 are brilliant for scratching. Sure they look ugly/plain, but they're so functional. re: The expense. Very true, you find yourself sacrificing a lot of other things to have more money for records/gear. I can't wait to be back in work, purely so I'll have far more disposable income. |
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I saw these things in a record shop which were rugs for rugs, or something. made by thud rumble. they were all sealed and i forgot to ask what they were. from the blerb on the packet, they seemed to be something you put between slipmats and platter??? They cost as much as mats, so save your money, and use a cut up plastic record cover, or something. p.s. remind me, what was the dmc 2000 routine, was it the one that goes, "everybody's talkin bout the beat-beat junkies, but theyre still tellin lies to me...." at the start? |
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are you sure about the shure-cartridges? (that is one of those jokes that are so silly that they aren't even jokes) I'm still hovering over that ortofon concorde scratch-thingie... it says on the description of it that it is built to match the technics... and while we're on it.. i've been recommended vestax-mixers from here to.. over there somewhere... How about the PCV-275 for scratch? (I'm going to need more than two channels, I'm sure about that now...) |
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boink. |
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No no no! PCV-275 is a great 3 channel house/techno mixer, but definately not for scratching! I have the predecessor (PMC-270A) which is pretty much identical except for the fader. I used to use mine for scratching as well as "normal" mixing but: a) It's not a very good layout- you catch your fingers on the EQ kills (either side of the fader), especially when beat juggling. b) There's no curve adjust knob and it's a very soft "mixing" curve. c) I got through crossfaders pretty quick (third one in about 18 months). Point C shouldn't be a problem for you- by all accounts the PCV faders have great durability, however, bear A and B in mind. One thing perhaps you should consider if you're determined to have a three channel scratch setup, but don't fancy forking out for a Rane Empath (they're v. expensive!) is getting a three channel mixer (perhaps a second hand one) and a scratch mixer? The way I have mine set up is a three channel mixer as the master, with FX, drum machine, mic etc. on that, then the input of the scratch mixer (to which the decks are attached) going into that. The only real disadvantage is that I can only assign FX to the turntables master out, not one deck and not the other. The three channel mixer needn't be expensive even one of may be enough for what you need. |
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Yes, I've heard about those Flying Carpets, not used a pair myself. They're designed for people who insist on having "pretty" slipmats from an aesthetic point of view, yet like the low friction of butterugs. Like you say, if you're going to do that cutting up record sleeve lining is just as effective, albeit slightly less durable. The DMC routine was the "DMC 2000 Team Showcase" I don't think it was actually a competition as they were using PDX2000s, PMC-07s and PMC-06s (although I think the gear regulations are looser on team competitions). It was probably just one of those shows they have at the start of the event before the competitors come on (and so you can see how poor the competititors are compared to Cutmaster Swift et al ;-) The routine makes extensive use of the earth hum (cut/EQed through several mixers) and styli tapping. At the end of the video Tony Vegas swears at the camera and the message "Take that, Mickey, Love." appears at the bottom of the screen. I'll sort you out with the video on SS if you like. Mail me if you're interested. |
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