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 (nobody)...and 428 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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After the events that I have experienced, I would simply have to FORCE myself to believe that what I have and continue to witness each day is a product of random possibilities and coincidence, not at all associtated with a "God" in any sense. Those who question free will (determinism) should consider what would be necessary to to maintain mathematically precise outcomes to every cause since the creation of the universe billions of years ago. I will however agree with you, that a number of people are religious for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't have to be Christian JUST so you can save yourself from the fear of death. People have to invest their own time into spirituality, when THEY are ready, and do so in a manner that prevents corruption from the societal-religious fabric. I've been to church and I've been disgusted at what I've seen - a bunch of non-thinkers repeating like drones, psalms of forgiveness and salvation under the instruction of a child-molesting leader. I've read the Bible in my own time, and I pray behind closed doors in my room (just like Jesus instructs actually). Church is more like a fashion show than anything to do with God. |
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No I don't think animals practice religion, but to be honest, I think true (I like to use spirituality) transcends a superficial understanding of written or spoken text. True religion is a feeling and an unspoken understanding of the self - universe relationship. |
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I can't argue that religion has been misused to the point where I would doubt if it were functioning to serve the opposite of its intentions. |
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These events you experienced: I'm not trying to be facetious here, but were they experienced under the influence? |
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Plus, if I had the mathematical formula to determine all possible future outcomes, would I be a rich motherfucker. |
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Key_Secret.....are you referring to an epiphany? I've had them before too - they're like little mini-enlightenments. This was not an enlightment, and I do not know what an epiphany is, but this was BIG... It was not enlightment, but I became extremely aware of something... It was a fact I realized, it was one of thoose things taken for granted that I questioned, and realized how it really was. This is not the raw-food ting (eventhough I think that was kinda enlightning to), this was a sudden strike (something I realized myself, not reading anything, but when speaking to a friend) and I felt really scared by what I had come across for several hours... But instead of getting calm I got sortof stressed, and my hearbeat pumped real fast... well that's how it was. I like it, but it was a really scary experience, not pleasant at all. Though it was a thrill :) |
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If you understand the value of life, you will not worry about death no longer. I don't. you can not worry about death for other reasons, but understanding the value of life is vital. I would like to get into meditating. I think I could only feel better from it... How ofthen do you meditate, catharsis? |
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No - they weren't under the influence. Usually in meditative state (either walking or sitting). |
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Well - what was originally a couple hours of seated meditation per day has become daily active meditation for the most part. The technique of walking meditation includes giving every action intense and immediate attention / focus. Every action must be done with whole-heartedness both of the body and the mind. When I'm drinking a glass of water, I'm drinking it like it's the last sip I'll ever take and I'm not thinking about when I should start studying, or what's on the TV at 9:00. Try going about your daily business by focusing on present action and events - always reflecting and focusing on the HERE and NOW. I've put myself into some pretty severe mental states by doing this. I've even had my mom ask me "what's wrong" a few times while doing it. I think many people undergo a kind of transformation when they TRULY realize that they are going to die. Overcoming the fear of death is paramount. |
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It's amazing how often the mind deviates from its course - even when you TRY to focus. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to focus the mind. The important thing to remember is not to fight and get angered by these drifting thoughts, but to simply recognize them, acknowledge them, and then let them pass. |
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I find music making very Zen-like these days - It's an odd state of mind you get into, time loses all meaning, you're so focused but at the same time you're not really there - I actually only got into music heavily after getting anxiety after giving up smoking... Martial Arts is another form of meditation isn't it - That's what they're really about, not really about fighting, that's sort of a secondary aspect to them - But all the time you're concentrating on the moment and your body movements, living very much in the here and now. I don't really believe religion has ever caused war, I think it's just an excuse/scape-goat for a lot of people - In countries where religious segregation is causing violence I can only blame the bored/violent idiots who go along with it, not the religion... Jesus never justified going to war with people who oppose your beliefs!!! Surely not!! I believe spiritual progression is the only reason we're here, the only reason we have the ability to think on such abstract and introspective levels. |
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well religion can't cause war - it's impossible. Cause it's not a living thing. However people can cause war, and should be blamed. |
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Yepper...I took martial arts for about 5 years (too expensive to keep training in Toronto), and martial arts and zen go hand in hand (speaking of the true martial arts - not the fighting skills). Karate for example contains meditative sequences called "katas" which are pre-arranged techniques against "invisible" attackers. While it seems rather dull and pointless at first - most karate masters (not the Chuck Norris kind), insist that karate IS the kata. I transform into an entirely new energy when I do kata. If your mind is wandering during the intense focus of the kata (done correctly) the energy of the kata snaps and dissipates into a meaningless movement. |
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No, were YOU under the influence? |
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Humans can cause war, and other crimes against humanity, in the name of religion though. To me, reiligion is on the same level as politics in so many ways. |
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some think they have an informed opinion on "god", yet they rely on the uninformed to pass judgement on the validity of belief in "god." in my experience, this awareness is inevitable for all individuals, but no amount of arm-twisting or persuasion will hasten this process. i was raised lutheran, and then became atheist, and then agnostic, and after about 17 years i was no longer able to deny what had been demonstrated to me. i could no longer justify my agnosticism. don't be mistaken in thinking that the crude models that we call religion do anything more than point in the direction of something that is at once strange and familiar, what is at the core of our being. i insist that each of you will persist in conscious form after the death of your body. is this good or bad? can you appreciate that this question, in this context, no longer has meaning? at the very least, you will have your proof. |
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The only problem is you insistence. That's what crosses the line between opinion and evanglelism. Don't get me wrong, I respect your beliefs, as I respect those of J Swift and Catharsis. These to guys present very well-written, interesting points of views while not once saying "No you're wrong there IS a God you will see." They get the point across that they are sure in their hearts. Don't insist to me what will happen to me after I die. The fact is, insist all you want, but you don't KNOW, you BELIEVE. That is faith, and that is entirely different from knowledge. I don't believe in god because I have not seen proof. There are those that will infer and interpret proof in anything they see and say "Look at the prefection of that sea anemone. There is your proof of God." I'm not convinced by that. There are those that will say, "Believe in God, because at the end, if you believed in God and were wrong, it would be better than not believing in God and being wrong, and burning in hell, etc." That's not being genuine and I'm not with it either. What I AM with is whatever you believe, you present it as your faith, relate experiences that have made you spiritual, not just blindly stab out with I INSIST, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I've worked with some crazy people that remind me of that. |
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key_secret, you are like a dancing spring. maybe the most important act of all would be removing all of the divisions between people. smart, stupid, lazy, industrious, this race, that race, left wing, right wing, orthodox, pagan, ugly, beautiful. i'm not saying to deny your experience of these things, to deny your humanity. but if you look beneath these distinctions, you will see only brothers and sisters. as long as you see a bite of food in your neighbor's mouth as a missing bite from your plate, we will endure tremendous suffering. ayn rand's misguided philosophy is like a poison in our collective well. all of the riches and gifts of capitalist endeavor, how do they serve ayn rand now? |
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Plus I was raised catholic. I got to an age where I realized that the catholic church is a racket and the pope is a thief. The vatican is a fuckin solid gold palace. that's what started it all for me. Then for the first time, I really started to think about what religion means to society and I looked within myself and discovered that I am satisfied with my own points of view, my own explanations. Just from really thinking about it. I feel like I get everything religion truly sets out to accomplish within myself. Therefore, as an institution, I don't need religion, and as a spiritual leader, I don't need a higher power, a prophet, a priest etc. |
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I look at it as a bite missing from my plate only if it was taken from my plate without my offering it. |
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atg, you misunderstand what i mean by insist. i don't mean, i insist and will twist your arm until you agree. i *will* say that i *do* know, and i *will* say that you *will* see. you can believe as you will, this doesn't affect me, nor should my belief affect you. don't think because i assert this that i put myself on some sort of plateau above anyone else. if the subject comes up, as it has come up here, i will report that i have seen the proof, and it is absolute. again, as i have said, i recognize that no one but myself can accept this proof. so i report it, acknowledge it publicly, with no expectations on your part. i have not even spoken about who god is. to me, "is there or is there not a god?" is not a meaningful question. i can't even tell you if i believe in god, unless you can tell me who god is. |
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atg, i make no claim to know anything about *what will happen to you* when you die. i never said that you would see god. your death will certainly provide proof to *you* as to what happens to *you* when *you* die! you seem to be offended by people taking a stand on what they believe, as if you take their disagreeing with you as a judgement against you, as a statement of your wrongness. i don't believe that you are wrong. i see us looking at the same thing from different perspectives. i choose not to be wishy washy about it for my own reasons. neither will i claim to know what i do not know. i spoke of my personal experience, and can do no more. |
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Religion shouldn't have anything to do with politics - because the purpose of these two is way different. And again, think about what you're saying. You can go to war in the name of anything - it's still the ACTUAL WAR that sucks and shouldn't exist. And the war was not started because of religion - because religion is a concept [a way of looking at life/the world] and is not "alive". In fact it's very similar to blame religion for war as to blame Marylin Manson or a similar artist for violent acts. I mean do you think that is right? The people who start war are "guilty" of starting the war - not their beliefs. At present, it's probably more important to realize how many people suffer today because of capitalism?... We should put a stop to that as soon as possible... |
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atg, i realize now that my use of the word "see" implies that you you will come to agree with my perspective. by "see," i mean only that you will perceive beyond the death of your body. however, i did not intend to imply knowledge of anything else relating to your personal experience, or even imply that you would as a result come to believe in "god". |
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It doesn't offend me, it just annoys me. You've looked at this through the eyes of an atheist. Did you not ever feel that? Not everyone does it though. Look at Catharsis' and J Swift's posts. When you start insisting and saying you KNOW, you are saying someone is wrong. Now if I'm wrong, so be it. But no one can put forth any evidence. It's always the same song and dance. You don't need evidence to have FAITH. You do need evidence to say that I'm wrong though. That's the only issue I have. |
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Sorry atgmartin. NO I was not under any influence other than my own meditation when I have these experiences. |
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Has there ever been a Jewish president in this country? Ahhh, don't mind me, I'm just stirring shit. :) |
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i believe that whether or not there is a god is irrelevant. If some supreme being exists, i believe it is very likely that it is not a concious entity. It has no knowledge of our existence or if it does, it does not care. either way, what concerns me during life, is life itself and sucking ever last drop of it. If i let it go to waste, and it turns out to be the only one i get, i will have squandered away a fantastic opportunity for experience and that would be a great tragedy. |
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I know I've said this before, but "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", as stated in the Old Testament, is just one of many justifications for war with religious support. Despite the fact that Jesus condemned the practice of revenge (I thought it was human produced bullshit from the start myself), people will ignore Jesus to favour any other passage in any Holy text that grants them the right to wage war. |
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The Mafia has no trouble beating people to death with their newly severed stumps so long as their is a Catholic Church around the corner to repent sins and ask for forgiveness. The very fact that the Vatican is made of gold is hypocritical, disgusting, and is a slap in the face to all of Jesus' teachings and the millions of people who could have benefitted from a church made of bricks instead. |
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Evolume (like your new avatar), that is very Buddhist of you. Some religions are concerned with after-life, some religions are concerned with life. |
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Maybe not a Jewish president, but how about a really fucking stupid one? |
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I like that. I agree. |
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Oh, they've had their share of those:-) |
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This is funny. It might be a bit small, but you can save it and then zoom in with a picture viewer, or some such program. |
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I'm surprised at the high number in each category. |
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If you think of things from a global perspective, subscribing to one religion and all its details would seem absurd. Without getting into too many details (I can give quite a few), the commonalities of world religions are more important than the ritualistic details that vary from culture to culture. I'm inclined to believe that religions WERE created by humans, BUT these religions were more of an organized reflection of a self-aware culture connecting with the universe. Regardless of whether Jesus was the son of a Christian God, his message and the messages of those like Him (Buddha, Lao Tzu etc.) are remarkably inhuman in nature and reflect an individual with transcendence beyond ordinary human thought. We all have this inner awareness of God or Universal Force, or Consciousness, but religion is a reflection of that awareness and is very unique to every culture. If you examine the central core of every world religion, you will see that the commonalities are remarkable. IN FACT, did you know that the phrase "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is evident in over 20 world religions (variations of the phrase of course). Could you imagine what kind of world would exist had we exercised this lesson? Were ancient societies so full of peace and love that they included this phrase into their religious texts? |
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Yeah, it's scary really. |
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in reply to catharsis' question way down there that i missed: negative |
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im totally with you catharsis i pray one good for all the people who believe in something because we all have the same god, he has all the faces he wants adaptated to every culture thats what i think |
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The parable of the elephant and the blind men (shortened version): 15 blind men were lead to a new creature (elephant) that none of them had encountered before. Each held out his hand and each man was directed to touch a different part of the elephant. One man felt the trunk, the other the tusks, the other the eyes, the other the tail, the other the nails and so on and so on...... The men then began to argue and fight over what it was that they were touching. Each one insisted that the other was lying or incorrect and violence began to ensue. If they were not so blind, they would have tolerated each other's unique experience of a singular phenomenon. (Take from this what you will) |
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Once again, I'm inclined to disagree with you mappatazee. |
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Very interesting explanation for how all religions are derived from the same inability to explain the world as we know it, they just do it in all different ways. |
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What would seem more likely to you? 1) God created the Universe 2) The Universe created God 3) The Universe IS God If you have any other rational suggestions I would be very interested in hearing them. If you found a watch laying on the beach, you would instantly assume that it was created and placed there. Why is anything else so different to you? You're looking at your monitor right now composed of trillions of atomic particles, glowing phosphorus and emitting radiation of various kinds. How do you explain what is in front of you? I don't want to give the impression that God is a big translucent human-like creature floating around in space, but I find it hard to believe that you have no idea what this "God" could be. Perhaps it hasn't hit you yet. |
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I think many people are still trying to define God. What does He look like? His eyes, ears, beard, clothes..... What the fuck do you think? He doesn't need eyes, ears, a mouth, a voice box, two arms, to legs, fingers, hair etc. Heck he isn't even a HE. Unless there is a Mrs. God complete with a vagina, I fail to see what would make God ANY gender. You've got feminists arguing that God is really a female when if you stopped for two seconds to think about it you would fail to see the necessity of God with a body at all. |
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or 4) Humans created god. I'm not trying to push it; it's just another valid option that represents some beliefs. |
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actually i "felt" god a few years back...since then i believe so... its a profond feeling very pure...... im 21 im not gay and not influenced by anybody... why did i talk about gayness? |
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Then perhaps humans created the universe as well? Do you have any suggestions on how the Universe was formed? |
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I ask you this. Did humans create atoms, radiation, electrons, quanta, photons, heat, cold, and the other elements of the universe as we know it. If the answer is "no" then I fail to see how humans could similarly create God. |
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If I could properly formulate a suggestion, I would not be sitting in this wank chair at this wank job right now. :) I can only suggest cosmic phenomena of which I can not fully express, I can only throw words around such as "entropy," "energy" which remains constant, "mass" which remains constant. I wish I know more answers to this question. To be honest, it interests me, but not to the extent that I wish to read up very much on it. (I would rather go home and play computer games:-)) My not knowing the answer to this question does not trouble me. I know that the universe has formed, that I am on the planet, that I will be on the planet for a very short amount of time, that I have a set of ethical guidelines by which I live my life, that I do not answer to a higher power, that I don't believe there is one to answer to, etc. In the immortal words of Thought Industry (though slightly out of context) "For I believe in no god, and not god believes in me" |
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