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 (nobody)...and 349 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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my thoughts on the issue: nothing works in purity because nature is a system of balance between forces, on many levels... atomic, cosmic, biological, social, etc. pure socialism is no better than pure capitolism. that's why there is no clear logical answer as to how these systems should work. there is a balance that can't be easily identified. |
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communism is a wonderful thought... hard to make it work but it would be great... im a socialist and member of the socialist party of sweden. If you're not active you cant complain about anything really.. |
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If every human being cared about the next generation and the next one and the next one after ... if we had more respect for the future, the world would be a better place. we are to selfish. It is so easy but so hard at the same time. We have no respect for the future nature. The way we live today is just terrible. it really is. |
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If you look at the world...and compare to history....nothing has changed. we have changed in technolgy and science , but sadly at the same time destroyed more and more. and more will be destroyed. |
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if every human being was aware that they aren't separate from the whole system then they would realize selfishness is really harmful to the self. what if all children were taught from day one that they were not separate from their environment or the people they interact with? what if that native american indian proverb (don't recall exactly) that goes something like: "take away my limbs, my eyes... i will live on. take away the air, the water, the ground beneath me and i die."was taught to every child? i think if children were raised from day one to realize these things we would be better off cause nobody could fool theirself into thinking they could be happier than if they were living in harmony with everyone else. i mean who the fuck raised people like the bush family and what were the values? |
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the answer is greed. the cure is real true love. without a doubt. |
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amen! |
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what if all children were taught from day one that they were not separate from their environment or the people they interact with? what if that native american indian proverb (don't recall exactly) that goes something like: "take away my limbs, my eyes... i will live on. take away the air, the water, the ground beneath me and i die."was taught to every child? unfortuantely they would likely get anihilated by those who more technically advanced then they. |
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hell yeah! |
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what does understanding true identity have to do with technical inferiority? you think truth makes you weak? |
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no, i was only pointing out the actual outcome of the people which you quoted (very generally, the american indians). and that a good amount of people aren't convinved that being in touch with nature is finding truth, but in some romantic notion beauty or naivity. it's not what they believe inside, but what they see. i wasn't disputing the greatness of what you said. |
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okay, and thanks. i suppose that's a bit righteous of me to claim i have found the real nature of identity. never-the-less, i think there is potential for us if we start thinking in terms of synergy and realizing the artifical nature of boundaries (e.i. skin being the boundary to self). i guess i'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but i don't think that we have to lose or asvancements to return to whole-nature consciousness. |
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sorry to make an example of you, but people like you are the reason that ppl are so self centered, because you BELIEVE that people are self centered. its a self fufilling prophecy. You've got to believe, to the point of naiviety (sp :-/), that people are good and will care for eachother - otherwise no chances will arise where ppl can show that they are good. for example somes youths find it almost expected of them that they should be delinquents, so they commit crime. you think it as impossible to make people care, but thinking that isnt going to help the matter. |
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i'm basically with you, and was only saying that your belief may not be the popular vision. |
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Im with all the capitalists here. Lets blow up a small nation of little brown people tomorrow. See you guys there. |
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yo'lil'sis'- when you play chess, do you assume that the other player will ease up on you? 'you think it as impossible to make people care, but thinking that isnt going to help the matter.' i never said anything like that. i only believe in working within the world you exist, and the reality of human nature, which is to protect itself. this doesn't preclude vision, but requires great creativity to improve things. |
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I'm all for a mixed economy with a free market somewhat restrained by regulations. Seems to work pretty well in lots of Western democracies. Libertarians and laissez-faire capitalists have been getting the upper hand in the US too much lately, with the result that more money is getting concentrated into fewer hands and abusive monopolies are being formed with the (publicly) unstated goal to strip mine as much money as quickly as possible. A free market is something that paradoxically requires a lot of guidance and restraint. Libertarians and laissez-faire capitalists have an almost superstitious faith in the "invisible hand" of the free market, but they wouldn't run their own companies the way they expect the economy to be run: blindly. "Oh well that's different". See, there's only this appeal to what's "natural" and "darwinian" when it suits them. When it comes down to asking two executives to have a knife fight to see who gets to be CEO, they pussy out. |
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i'd say thats pretty accurrate...we should ease the market enough to at least let them wrestle. |
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hmm, perhaps i needed an IF infront of that statement. and it was the general you, not you personally, in that sentence. but if we accept what surrounds us, and dont question those who ruke us, anything could happen. that was a general statement, not aimed at what you said sorry, i dont see the relevance of the chess question. please explain |
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Lets be blunt by saying that those people who are basically weak as fuck and can't cope with life, tend to vear towards the fantasy of communism. Those who accept the challenges that life is presented with, appreciate the values of the capitalist world. The problem with poor countries tends to stem from many fundamental issues, such as tribal warfare, religious conflict, dictators, bad infastructure (brought on by warfare), weak currencies etc etc. So the list goes on and on and as a result of the constant strife that goes on in these countries, it doesn't even begin to give them a chance of moving on. Stability is key in order for poor countries to move on. Lots of countries have been poor or 3rd world and moved on. So please lets not delude ourselves with this crap about capitalism not working. Best fucking thing we've got. If you don't like it sod off. |
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do you read noam chomsky? |
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omg - promo - WHO do you contributed to the unstable state of poor countries?!?!? (maybe you were sleeping during the history lessons?) And to: raimons mylittlesister marlowe jonesy - you make me proud, maybe there is possible better future after all. Respect to you! |
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Eat some Magic Mushrooms and squeegee your Third fucking Eye. May humans survive the change in 2012. peace. |
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Silly, the change is coming in 2112, and we'll be long dead. ...unless... OMG Antoine, is that you? Did you get the milk? |
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2112? Antoine? wtf? |
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Don't get coy with me Antoine. Gunter has your tap shoes and he's just itching to use them. |
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i'm so fucking sick of the "best we got" attitude. if it's fucked up, but not as fucked up as some alternatives, it's still fucked up. and avart implied, our great wonderful capitolism is only good for us because the lack of restraint allows our large companies to rape foreign lands. i can't believe you can turn your head to that shit. PURITY DOESN'T WORK. it's as simple minded and ignorant to say capitolism is the way as it is to say communism is the way. like i've already said, nature doesn't work like that, it works in balanc. the balance is determined by innumerable variables and a dumbshit idea like capitolism is not going to solve the equation. |
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I love you man. |
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If we keep going forward by being afraid of everything we will continue to kill and destroy. sorry... stop being afraid of the future. |
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What would you do if someone invaded your country tommorow? If ´someone toók away your rights? You cant watch tv anymore, no internet, read books etc...no material things. Which is the best way to live then? Do you have an answer to that? Would you think the same way you do now? would you? |
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sorry...that wasnt meant for you but for promo. |
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"The problem with poor countries tends to stem from many fundamental issues, such as tribal warfare, religious conflict, dictators, bad infastructure (brought on by warfare), weak currencies etc etc" Try western imperialism and its role in underdeveloping the third world. Have you never heard of the British Empire and what it did? |
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Very good points- The pragmatic puritanism of America and strong work ethic is one of its reasons for success. People are quick to criticise it and say it is grossly unfair how much better the standard of living is there. However, compared to other developed western countries, people generally work longer hours and have fewer holidays. It's unsuprising that they have more disposable income. A lot of infighting and tribalism as well as a reluctance to adopt democracy are at least some of the causes of the 3rd worlds problems. Capitalism is also good in that even at its most right wing it allows more freedom than any other ideology. Yes, you can say, "it forces you to work", but that is good for the general populance. If there was no capitalism, you'd have to work or starve anyway. If you're a communist living under capitalism, you're free to start your own business and run it for the benefit of the workers, start your own commune, etc. If you're a survivalist you can buy a bunker and land for crops etc. |
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one word. imperialism. say no more. |
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"A lot of infighting and tribalism as well as a reluctance to adopt democracy are at least some of the causes of the 3rd worlds problems." Sorry mate but you are way, way off there. The west has installed puppet dictators and bought off elites in countries since the British Empire. It is in the west's interests to have dictatorships in colonies. For example, the CIA desposed of Salvador Allende in Chile and installed General Pinochet. And in Iraq they installed Saddam's Ba' athist facist party. It is not that the people of the third world are at each other's throats and are against democracy (how in the name of shitting Christ can people be against their own freedom?). It is that htey have been denied those rights by an elite in their own country and the west. Read up on the American Fruit Company for their role (with the CIA) against democracy in Latin America. |
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jonesy...go on! |
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Some people are against democracy! Look at the ketchuan indians. It is part of their culture to have a ruling elite. Read Hunter S. Thompson's (hardly a capitalist himself...) accounts of his trips there in the 70s. The country was screwed up by trying to adopt democracy when it went against hundreds, if not thousands of years of tradition. If a countries elite are bought out, that is the problem of the country- in WW2 England's aristocracy could of quite easily saved its own skin by surrendering to Germany and their quality of life would probably of actually improved. Out of love for the country, they didn't and gave huge amounts of personal wealth to the war effort. |
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Well, some of the royal family had close ties to the Nazis so... As for the ketchuan indians, they do not represent the third world as a whole. And imperialists have not just used bribes to buy off elites; they have used violence. Why do you think the British had such a large navy in the days of empire? And why is the US threatening violence in Iraq now? |
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"democracy" is a fabrication. |
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I'd rather have a just ruling elite than democracy... |
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Well what DO we have if not a ruling elite? |
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We have a fascia of democracy which wastes resources in maintaining the facade. There would be a hell of a lot more money available and lower taxes if they stopped pretending... A ruling elite comprised of aristocracy would be great- there's no need for them to swindle taxpayers money- they're rich enough already... |
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So rich people aren't greedy and aren't corrupt? That's an interesting point of view. |
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But where do the rich or the aristocracy obtain their wealth? They don't create it themselves. You hark back to an age that never existed mate. |
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Then why don't George Soros and Bill Gates just pack it in and go lie on a beach? People who have lots of money want more, and power too. Mostly it's a power thing, of which money is symbolic. Elites raise their children to grow the family fortune, not to be complacent and satisfied with what they already have. |
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Eh? Bill Gates isn't leaving any of his money to his kids- he wants them to earn money themselves... Marlowe: A lot of very wealthy people are great philanthropists. |
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so in the system of elitism, the poor people will rely on rich patronage? Or will the poor people be encouraged to be Capitalist themselves, and tread on their fellows to make their fortune? |
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Ceri, we're not living in 19th century Britain anymore. So what will happen to Gates' wealth when he dies? He will give it up to poor American black kids? |
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The latter. Jonesy: Last I heard he is giving it to microsoft's vice president (most of his wealth is in the company- not in the bank...) |
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..But the hole world can not be bill gates, you know what i meen? Right wing always says that you have to take care of your self. It doesnt work that way today cause not everyone can do that. |
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