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 (nobody)...and 131 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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I've never believed. When I was little it just confused me. When I was older I wondered if grownups really believed it; it seemed so patently absurd to me. I remember one time we were visiting some friends in Vancouver and we went to a Pentecostal service with people speaking in tongues and shit, and I was thinking "these people are insane. I am going to sit here quietly and soon it will be over and I can leave". I flirted with Taoism briefly in my late teens but then came across other translations of the Tao Te Ching and realized that no one knew what the heck Lao Tzu was really talking about. |
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all cultures, even the most isolated peoples, have a concept of gods (the one god came much after the many). what are people's thoughts on this? |
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God is used as crutch to explain things we don't know. The world is so big it must have be created by someone. Science has caught up with the myths now, we can explain everything without appeal to God. we don't know everything..for sure...but nothing leds us to think there MUST be a God |
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but god is not the creator for all people. in some religions there was no initial creation. for some, god is just what they call a very real feeling they have, a feeling experienced by people from all cultures. it's a universal experience. the christian white patriarch sky god seems abusrd to me, but that is something that has developed over time from something very different. |
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I dunno if crutch is the right word, but it's interesting that God's domain retreats as Science's expands. That is, as we find scientific reasons for phenomena, God ceases to be the actor behind them. |
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"service with people speaking in tongues and shit" I've grown up in one of these. It was called the "full evangelic community" and what they preached was way beyond the standard things. I'm still a bit abnormal because of all this eventhough I'm out of it for years now... And my family was almost torn apart by this :( |
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Well, personification basically. In the absence of a better explanation, people see intelligent forces at play in nature, the weather, the sky. Sometimes these ideas take human or anthropomorphic forms, sometimes animal forms. |
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EEK! I'm sorry. :-( It must not have been very pleasant to grow up in that milieu or to leave it... There's a site dedicated to people who have left fundamentalist religion, it's called Some of the stories are pretty interesting... |
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thanks for the link, maybe it'll help with certain subjects |
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god is just what they call a very real feeling they have, a feeling experienced by people from all cultures. Neurology explained similar mystical feelings as the one you refer too, as a flow ia a certain area of the brain. The so called astral projection for example, used as an argument for the existence of a soul, is nothing else than a heavy flow of blood into the region that controls the perception of our self. The result is a sense of 'expanded awareness', a new 'reality', a feeling of your soul leaving your body. The field of neurology right now is doing many reaserches in the field of religious experiences... |
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I don't know whether god exists or not. I don't know whether someone by the name of Jeremy Bonbon Akislov exists either. |
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but the exact opposite is true. the findings of quantum mechanics have completely blown away the idea that science will answer all and god will cease to exist. the physicists who take science seroius, as a means not just to advance technology but a means to truly unerstand reality, they run into information that completely blows them away and they most often go one of two routes: they ignore the information and the profound implications, or they take on a mystical understanding of the universe. quantum physicists have been meeting with hindu yogis because they find that the quantum model of reality, the deeper they go, more resembles the brahman (roughly translated, "the ground of all being," the god from which all their gods spin off of/are a part of). and i repeat, this god as "actor behind them [phenomena]" is not the god of peoples across the world, and it is not the god of indigenous peoples whose spiritual lives very likely resemble those of all of our ancestors. |
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n1ETZ5CH3 wuz H3re! |
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I have no knoweledge on quantum physics so I can not comment on that... |
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well, there's a bit more to it than increased bloodflow, but of course religious experience is reflected in the brain. every single phenomenon of consciousness is reflected in the brain. there is no seperation between consciousness and physical reality. but that doesn't make the experience an "illusion." by your reasoning when you feel pain, you don't really feel pain, it's nothing more than a function of the brain. you aren't even conscious. it's an illusion:) |
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Well what is the difference between a schizophrenic person hearing voices and sufering of hallucinations, and a person experiencing a mystical experience? None, since they are both only present at a psychological level. But this is not my point anyway... What I intended more to point out is that such events can be explained, and their cause does not have necessary to be a deity, it could be diet, personal beliefs, health conditions... Saying Goddidit, or only implying that it could be a proof for the existence of a deity is definetely premature... |
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In a hundred years or a thousand today's best science will seem like the babbling of infants, especially if the happens. |
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Anyway, your previous post about Quantum physicists, is a phallacy called "argument from authority" |
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Anyway, your previous post about Quantum physicists, is a phallacy called "argument from authority" No, it's officially "The Fallacy from Reading Fritjof Capra." :-) |
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fallacy* |
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i say that god did it. i'm simply saying that there is more to god than "the one who is responsible for everything" like everyone is making it out to be. that version of god is the one that people who have never experienced god yet want something to believe in adopt. i think schizophrenics might be tormented by a unique view of reality, one that happens to not be suitable for day to day living in society. i have a relative who's schizophrenic and i had a friend who's schizophrenic. both have said some profound things, but i've never had the feeling that what they experience is the same as any mystical experience i've had. never know though. |
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oh please, you just said you didn't know enough about quantum mechanics to speak on it. david bohm is a major source of what i speak of and i don't think you could consider him a false scientist. |
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what is your point? science will always be "the babbling of infants" because science is not an explanation of reality, it is the simplest model of reality that gives results accurate enough for whatever the purposes may be. i was simply stating that current science is not the science of no god. |
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"i say that god did it." What makes you presume so, except our ignorance of the causes? "i'm simply saying that there is more to god than "the one who is responsible for everything" like everyone is making it out to be. " I'm curious to hear your definition of God. =) "but i've never had the feeling that what they experience is the same as any mystical experience i've had." I'm not saying that they are the same feeling, but that at a conceptual level they are very similar. They both exist only at a psychological level but not at a physical one. And till now it hasn`t been found, as far as I know, any external factor that causes such experiences... |
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hehe, that was a typo. "i didn't say that god did it" |
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oh please, you just said you didn't know enough about quantum mechanics to speak on it. While sometimes it may be appropriate to cite an authority to support a point, often it is not. In particular, an appeal to authority is inappropriate if: the person is not qualified to have an expert opinion on the subject, experts in the field disagree on this issue. the authority was making a joke, drunk, or otherwise not being serious A variation of the fallacious appeal to authority is hearsay. An argument from hearsay is an argument which depends on second or third hand sources. |
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what do you mean "my" definition of god? i'm not talking about my definition of god. i'm talking about the god of mystics from many cultures. a common definition is that god is earth, or the universe, or the fabric of reality. |
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this isn't an offical article for the journal of such and such, i'm just having a discussion. but anyhow, david bohm speaks much of the quantum model that resembles various mystics' descriptions of the universe. i don't have a book off hand to give you page numbers or anything, sorry. |
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Oh ok...I got what you are saying... Anyway in my opinion those mystic experiences are nothing more than disfunctions in the brain no different than epilepsy and schizophrenia... But obviously this is just my ignorant opinion... " a common definition is that god is earth, or the universe, or the fabric of reality. " i thought that the definition of a God implied that it is sentient... |
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what do you mean by definition of god?! i'm not talking about dictionaries, i'm talking about the people who hold these beliefs. |
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i don't have a book off hand to give you page numbers or anything, sorry. It's ok I really would not be able to sustain that topic... And sorry if I sounded agressive... |
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the simplest model of reality that gives results accurate enough for whatever the purposes may be. This penchant for combining a little hand waving with physics and some Eastern philosophy doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with science or creating a useful model. It just seems to be proof that even physicists are not immune to the effects of tetrahydrocannabinol. With the passage of time our current models of the universe and the superstitious mythologies we graft onto them will seem as wrongheaded as alchemy. |
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what do you mean by definition of god?! I'm just saying that usually, the entity to which we refer as god is a sentient being, but by your description doesn`t seem so... Please explain further... |
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Also, it's hard to discuss things with faceless people. 1) put a santa hat on a picture 2) upload it as an avatar 3) Smiles, everybody, smiles! Welcome to Fantasy Island! |
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no problem. and no offense but i do think your opinion on mystical experience could be somewhat ignorant. |
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i want to put a pic of me up, no cam though. |
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and no offense but i do think your opinion on mystical experience could be somewhat ignorant. please explain where my ideas are incorect... Would you like me to link those neurology papers? |
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Doesn't have to be you. A picture of a sweet potato will do. Makes it easier to see who's saying what. |
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i'll bring it back up tomorrow. now i've got to finish homework. i was only coming for a moment to avoid writing my lab report (the real science, the stuff makes $), but i got sucked into this topic and... talk to yall tomorrow. i wouldn't mind the neurology papers. |
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wow this is becoming a big discussion, anyways thanks cfern for liking what i had to say. I agree with what was said about how most christians dont exactly follow what has been said by jesus and this is part of the problem. too many claim to be christian instead of acting on it. also yeah, funkmaster I do agree no one is perfect but when people call themselves christian or any other religion and they completely disregard or cant follow what the religion is about then what's the point of even saying you belong to this so and so religion. another thing is if theyre is a so called god it (its not gonna gender based obviously) it will be beyond anyones imagine and theres many questions that pondering on will never create answers. too many times have we(humans) tried to answer questions that we simply dont have the answers to. if we dont have answers we shouldnt try to cover them up or make up stories either. that idea is pertaining to whether or not bible stories and so forth are actually true or for that matter if jesus himself was real. alas no religion question can be answered until...well...later and definately not now. |
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Yay real science! Where are the flying cars? I want my flying car! |
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Some information that I found with a fast search on google...you may find something interesting... I'll find more stuff maybe tomorrow... |
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not to add fuel to the FIRE *poof watches the flames* however science PROVES God's existance, and the Bible has scientific facts in it BEFORE men could prove them to be true. ie....that the earth was round, and that it spins on an axis upon 'nothing.' also......when MAN can made a human being from SCRATCH.....just using the elements that make us......i'll believe that NO divine intervention occured. it's pretty convienent that we have TWO sexes.....and that our parts match up to create OTHER beings like us......amazing how that happened in the proverbial soup! |
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well most species have two sexes or theyre asexual. i think everything in the world is related in ways we dont know and not that I can prove either. |
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i gotta go now, gotta finish some history homework, have fun FIGHTING(stupid joke referring to my post earlier talking about religious conflicts, i know its dumb but so what) |
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that the earth was round, and that it spins on an axis upon 'nothing.' Actually the bible states that the earth stands on pilars. Says that bats are birds. And offers ridicolous ways to cure leprosy. |
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also......when MAN can made a human being from SCRATCH.....just using the elements that make us......i'll believe that NO divine intervention occured. I'll show you how it's done but you'll have to buy me dinner. :-> |
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Jesus apparently thought that blindness, epilepsy and various other afflictions were cause by demons. In this, he seems to be no different from any other ignorant sod of his times. Say, you don't suppose...? |
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A list of scientific contradictions... |
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"however science PROVES God's existance," - no, no it doesn't. you had some funky science teachers. "and the Bible has scientific facts in it BEFORE men could prove them to be true. ie....that the earth was round, and that it spins on an axis upon 'nothing.' " - this knowledge was hardly exclusive to the bible. Aristole knew the world was round and could prove by watching ships sink below the ocean line as they go out to sea. I believe the Mayas knew that the world was round also. |
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