 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (2)Hyperflake belb ...and 90 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2615565 Today 25 Topics 127656 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I agree, its like saying that people who are mentally retarded or born with anencephaly or women who can't bear children are unnatural. I'll quote Sun Ra, it seems to be relevant. [Man] has to rise above himself . . . transcend himself. Because the way he is, he can only follow reproductions of ideas, because he's just a reproduction himself. . . . He did not come from the creative system, he came from the reproductive system. But if he evolutes beyond himself, he will come up from the creative system. This quote is obviously idealized along with really bordering on the line of not being factual. But there is some truth to it. Barcode i agree with everything you have said in this thread, except some things that you postulate to be fact, in which case you really don't know. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
how is that an escape from boredom? First , for the sake of having a discussion about objectivity and reality, let's not use words like "escape" becuase literally it doesn't make sense. If you mean to NOT be bored by using entertainment, than THIS IS THE PURPOSE for entertainment! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
the meaning of entertainment is to entertain. individual content may have other meanings, like a message, anecdote or idea it introduces. i guess a higher meaning would be that it keeps us more comfortable. we do better when we are comfortable, so it enriches our life. that is a meaning, though. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
We know what nature intended as far as what we can see with our own eyes. I already said that. I also said, the evolution of consciousness was probably an accident, no evidence to assume otherwise. If human's use that evolution to stop procreating and the species dies out, tough titties. Species die out for all sorts of reasons. It just adds weight to the theory that we're just as vulnerable and meaningless as any other animal. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah, i think you clarified it the best. And by doing so i think i understand Barcode's point. That in terms of our biological function and reason for being on this earth, entertainment really has no value. But it's the time spent inbetween these events that is considered "life" as well, it's not like it isn't important, or else how would we meet anyone to fuck in the first place? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
barcode your view is like a sort of atheist buddhism or something. it is funny you ended up proselytizing it in a thread that started out about integrating our bodies with technology and going into space to harness mysterious energies and evolve into a utopian society. this thread was a mind fuck, i gotta hand it to you guys. like a mashup of waking life and hurly burly. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
good information, but for some reason i think i already knew that. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I in no way feel converted. I do feel however that i have too many philosophical words constantly swirling around in my head now, it's very annoying. like postulate, however, theory.. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
NO@! Look, consciousness probably took a long time to evolve, and it evolved the way it did because of the way we used it, and the way nature implemented it. So we kinda helped it along while nature provided us the building blocks. Everything that the brain can do still has a reason, just like we reproduce for a reason. What makes it so that the reason for consciousness is 'lower' than the reason for reproduction? Ok reproduction is as ancient as anything, it was the basis for evolution, but why is it logical to reject higher states of evolution? Like the evolution of the mind and the social evolution. Even so there is evidence that our brains evolved this way because it was essential to our survival. For instance we are not as physically powerful as a tiger or many other animals, we are smaller animals that always had a focus on tool making. Maybe we evolved in the wrong way, maybe we were only meant to make basic tools forever. But look at how powerful we are compared to all the other animals, we have a much higher probability for survival in many scenarios compared to everything else on this planet. Maybe THAT's why we attained this complex mind. But even if that wasn't true, even if our complex mind is just some fluke that came about by pure chaotic chance, even then we still now have a choice to deny our animal like behavior. And by merely having this capacity we are already more complex than animals, and maybe even be able to create artificial life, then we can 'beat' our naturalistic origins and eh, become somewhat like gods. Sorry to be so esoteric about this shit, but I really want to stress that I really do not think nature has any purpose for us. I think it built in us several mechanisms to survive and continue the species, but I think there is far more that can be done than that, and that this is just as real as anything else |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
We agree then. Nature has no purpose over and above survival and reproduction. If humans realised that the world over maybe they'd stop killing each other for nothing. Then the only question is, how can we use thought correctly for the benefit of the species - at the moment, failing dismally on that one. Perhaps thought can only help humans functionally. In the field of psychology there is no place for it - the solutions it offers creates more problems than it solves. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
cx - your application of darwin's theory defines this mess we're in we still now have a choice to deny our animal like behavior... become somwhate like gods america ain't shit cuz white man has a god complex. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Why the fuck wouldn't nature be worth keeping? fag |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
unfortunately you group together and generalize all people as if we are all in control of that aspect of our species. If we had that kind of ability as a whole to make significant changes to better our species, we would. But unfortunately there are people called politicians and others alike that are in power and have authority on what happens in this world. And like Capt. Beefheart says, "If you like stupid people in high place, you'll love the government" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
The politicians only deserve part of the blame, and probably only a little. The "common man" deserves alot of blame for being so easily lulled, distracted, bribed... Besides that, a large diversity of thought is possible and even likely without bringing good/evil, right/wrong, etc. into it. That alone makes it very unlikely for everyone to get on the same page. Not to mention man's love for fucking over one another. Human society at large is a terribly inefficient organism. An organism without a central nervous system. I kind of like it that way, though. I don't want to feel any more swept up in something that I have no way of getting out of than I already do. But it's likely to only get more centralized and systemized. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No actually I don't agree. Look, we kind of went over this already earlier in the thread and even in other threads. No matter how you twist and bend it, nature create consciousness and intelligence, not humans. Sure the way we used our intelligence helped it evolve, but at the same time there were unified rules all humans had to follow separately of one another. I already commented on the 'greater good of the species' ideal you have earlier in this thread.. My own conclusion at least after briefly giving it some thought is that humans need to work with the stuff they care about around them, and not a common global goal that they may never see the benefits from. Sacrificing your own dreams for a common goal isn't a good survival tactic, unless the payoff is guaranteed. Humans are inherently selfish, all of us, no matter how you twist and bend it. We care mostly about stuff close to us, and sometimes we try to make a difference in the world, but mostly we have no power to make an actual profound change and thus we never adopt that idea. While your ideal that we should all work together towards a common goal is a noble one, it's actually completely impossible at this point. Not only because of politicians, but because any kind of organization attempt at that level would lead to many different groups with many different opinions on how to do it. Humans are waaaaay too different to just sit down and suddenly agree on everything, especially for the common good of the /species/ And this internal evolution you speak of back to basics with only efficient thought or whatever, how is that going to help anything. You want us to become machines with no dreams, ideals, opinions..? Being a human by definition is all about the emotions, the thoughts, the ideals.. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yeah I see the funny, but come on, it's an idea.. The idea goes something like this - Humans create tools to manipulate and control the world around them, so far we control mostly higher levels like above molecule level, 'object level' perhaps. The deeper and smaller scales we can control, the more we can customize reality, and the more we can become 'gods'. Gods sounds so melodramatic of course, but you must agree with the basic premise of my hypothesis. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
btw im still laughing at the topic title. funny shit |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"Perhaps thought can only help humans functionally. In the field of psychology there is no place for it - the solutions it offers creates more problems than it solves. " Consciousness is a great burden and responsibility, sure. It's even a great danger. But it's only in it's earliest stages. I'm sure each subsequent development of life (from molecules>single cells>multicellular organisms>more and more complex and diverse organisms) was subject to great starts and stops and backtreading and dangers and mistakes before a new stage was fully achieved. Nietzsche put it well in "The Gay Science" "Consciousness is the last and latest development of the organic and hence also what is most unfinished and unstrong. Consciousness gives rise to countless errors that lead an animal or man to perish sooner than necessary, “exceeding destiny,” as Homer puts it. If the conserving association of the instincts were not so very much more powerful, and if it did not serve on the whole as a regulator, humanity would have to perish of its misjudgments and its fantasies with open eyes, of its lack of thoroughness and its credulity—in short, of its consciousness; rather, without the former, humanity would long have disappeared! Before a function is fully developed and mature it constitutes a danger for the organism, and it is good if during the interval it is subjected to some tyranny! Thus consciousness is tyrannized—not least by our pride in it! One thinks that it constitutes the kernel of man; what is abiding, eternal, ultimate, and most original in him! One takes consciousness for a determinate magnitude! One denies it growth and its intermittences! One takes it for the “unity of the organism”!— This ridiculous overestimation and misunderstanding of consciousness has the very useful consequence that it prevents an all too fast development of consciousness. Believing that they possess consciousness, men have not exerted themselves very much to acquire it—and things haven’t changed much in this respect! To this |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
day the task of incorporating knowledge and making it instinctive is only beginning to dawn on the human eye and is not yet clearly discernible—a task that is seen only by those who have comprehended that so far we have incorporated only our errors and that all our consciousness relates to errors!" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I do think conscioussness serves as a mirror for the universe, if nothing else. Without conscioussness (of some form, not necessarily human) the universe has no way of self reflection, no self-awareness (outside of a God-scenario, which might or might not be consiousness as well). It goes back to the old "tree falling in the forest" problem. If one point of space explodes into billions of galaxies with billions of stars with countless planets, but nothing's there to observe it in some way, did anything happen at all? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
what is this thread about it started out like environmentalism is dumb why do they want us to become hunter-gatherers if we speed up global warming we'll evolve into beings of pure energy but now i dont know wtf its about just a lot of wankin i guess |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
lol :D |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Blah. That's the way conversations are. They trail and veer off into different subjects/tangents. It's not "wanking." |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yes. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I don't 'think' that any idea we may have, has any relevance other than in the sphere of thought in which it is conceived. Because other than in the sphere of thought in which it is conceived - it isn't conceivable. Therefore, "we are not made for living in caves and hunting animals", as well as, "we are made for something much larger", are both self-referential. Concepts are nothing but its perceiving. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
'Nature' is pretty sweet and without it i'm not sure i'd like the food and therefore wouldn't defecate anymore. (which is maybe what you want). :P |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
isn't it just? seems like a lot of mutual ego masturbation going on here. its all hot air. it was a guff thread to begin with and then it disappeared up its own arsehole. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yes, no respect for the ecosytem! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
in my game you have to kill all the humabns witha deadly pathogen to stop them from destroying the environmetn |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Greetings Dean and Robby, this is the control computer speaking. We have an important mission to send you on. This is the planet Earth. Once a quiet and peaceful place, now its dominant species, the "humans", pose a grave threat to the planet's environment. Carbon emissions are warming the atmosphere, water is becoming polluted and scarce, and hundreds of species are going extinct every year. It is your job to dispose of the threat. We have installed a device deep beneath the surface that is capable of releasing a deadly pathogen into the atmosphere, eliminating all humans in a matter of days. Your mission is simply to activate this device by simultaneously pressing the two control switches. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Take me with you, er, Robs, I'm actually rather nice! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
the reason why your ego can be seen just as much is because you don't rationally explain why you're pissy, you just expect others to feel the same as you and if they don't well then fuck them. So you're just a well-adjusted fuck-face. I bet if i met you outside the internet i would fucking hate you, and i hope it would be mutual. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i got nature in my pocket, and i am KEEPING IT! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
