 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (3)belb recycle dariusgriffin ...and 104 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614385 Today 31 Topics 127560 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this is all so wrong. there are small "different" states that are ready to fight for their religious/ political rights and the right to excist. then there are bigger states who are just ugly and greedy. then they bash the different states to the nethermost hell saying they were bad people. why iraq can't have weapons if the us can? why can't UN take inspectors to see what us government labs do. i can't say no violence cause it's totally utopistic, i just say, no war, no weapons. we are all different and equal people on this globe. and so many different people can't be without bickering. unfortunately war has existed as long as society, but now we have come to the point where these wars can easily wipe us all out or do gruesome thing to ecosystem etc. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"why iraq can't have weapons if the us can? " because US are responsible |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
And as I said before... people on Hati have been supressed long before the US came into picture, dictatorships, economic problems... economic problems BEFORE the U.S came to support in 1930, before that they didnt exactly have "democratically elected left leaning leaderships" did they.... and their economic problems where happening WAY before US intervention ever came into the picture. Funny how this morphed from middle eastern to south american discussion. America sticks its nose into too many things, but if it didnt (seem to try anyway) try and help, people would critisize American foriegn policy for not helping people in need or supplying aid. I think war is just horrible. Neetta basically said what I wanted to post just now. People should have the right to have nuclear weapons. Why not. We could get this all over with faster and destroy goverment leaders could argue on and on and then destroy the earth. Why do we need a bomb that can destroy a small country... its completly unnessisary |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
why no-one thinks of the entire seabird species leaking oil tankers genocide all the time... and all this war. all because of oil. i'd start an oil boycott but i live in a oilwarmed house :( |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
US responsible? Hiroshima ring a bell? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
who is hiroshima? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
tolstoyed, how can you say the us are responsible????? think about all the damage american corporations make to the developement of poor countries... i think the us government does a lot more damage than the iraqi one does, at least on the grassroot level. there are nations like sudan almost totally ruled by oil companies and the money they get from oil is straightly used to fund a -ta da- war! and sudan must be one of the poorest countries of the world :( it makes me sad. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
tolstoyed, how can you say the us are responsible????? think about all the damage american corporations make to the developement of poor countries... i think the us government does a lot more damage than the iraqi one does, at least on the grassroot level. there are nations like sudan almost totally ruled by oil companies and the money they get from oil is straightly used to fund a -ta da- war! and sudan must be one of the poorest countries of the world :( it makes me sad. ps |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
1915 is when US started it's intervention..befor it were the other Colonialist in their myriad of filthy dehumanizing attributes, whats the difference?..It's the US that is continuing the unpardonable and shameful practises of the Colonials in thinly veilded guises such as IMF and World Bank..taking crippling control over the economies of these former colonies with the aids and loans and dictating things as ridiculous as people with not enough to eat having to pay for drinking water and forbidden to grow their own food as the terms of aid stipulates that all of the grains have to be imported from the US. This is colonialism taken to its most exploitative and disgusting extremes. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
erm, i was being sarcastic :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that bird doesnt look too good |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah well that bird species no longer even excist since prestige crashed so what do you expect |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
heheh i have a debate on monday about globalisation so this thread gives me good points to add |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this thread is more about americasation, which is the samething probably :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Good luck neetta I hope you kick their arses on the debate. I was gonna say try solar power :) should we pipe some New Zealand sunshine to you? re: birds - that sucks |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think compliance with United Nations should be supported by all nations including the US when it comes to signing agreements such as nuclear or treaties such as the Kyoto agreement to reduce pollution. The nuclear issue has been addressed in the past and should be observed by all countries involved not just Iraq. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
ahahaha trying solar power in a country where on winter the sun is up 1/4 of a day :)) maybe i'll just move down there |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yes, very digusting but even before 1912 there were dictator ships and bad economic problems with the country Red, there was never any "democratic" ways of living... and even when Sténio Vincent was elected there were major problems in part with the massive debt due to the US (a big part) and in part of his leadership "This is colonialism taken to its most exploitative and disgusting extremes" It sure is monkey........ it sure is, I wish I lived in a forign country so that I could blame every problem in my life directly on the US too, how easy and great would that be, oh wait, why not start now. Kind of like El Nino, oh its that damn el nino.... hey its raining outside, FUCKING EL NINO! hey its foggy outside, THAT GOD DAMN FUCKIN EL NINO! Its sunny outside, man EL NINO AGIAN! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Why do you see the West as a solution to the problems of dictatorships and Thirld World problems? If you look at history it is the West, from the British Empire to US imperialism today, that has caused these problems. The elite institutions of the biggest world powers such as the WTO, the IMF and the world Bank allow the West to keep these countries in such a state and so secure their profits. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"i guess we should be happy it is America that is the most powerful country in the world. (imagine what the world would look like if it was a country run by some dictator)." You are forgetting that the US elections were fixed and that there has been a bloodless coup in the White House. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I sure dont agree with what the US goverment has done or what it is going to do in the past regarding its foriegn policy, I am playing the part of devils advocate here, but it HAS done good things, and even regaurding Hati, it DID support Hati financially, but their economy was is disarray long before the US came into the picture and it DID provide goods. "I think compliance with United Nations should be supported by all nations including the US when it comes to signing agreements such as nuclear or treaties such as the Kyoto agreement to reduce pollution. The nuclear issue has been addressed in the past and should be observed by all countries involved not just Iraq." I think that nuclear energy programs should be gotten rid of alltogether. Solar power, hydrogen powered fuel products are availible now, they should be used |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
BWAHAHAHA! fucking typos, Ir I r speal goads yes sir *convulses on the floor* *passes out* |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
goat spelling |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
If anyone wonders why the US not loved around the world then just take a look at these career highlights: 1960-75 Vietnam: two million dead 1961 Cuba: Bay of Pigs invasion 1969-75 Cambodia: hundreds of thousands killed 1973 Chile: CIA-backed coup 1981-92 El Salvador: 75,000 people killed 1981-90 Nicaragua: US arms Contras 1986 Libya: capital city, Tripoli, bombed 1989-90 Panama: thousands killed 1990-1 Gulf War: US-led coalition kills over 100,000 Iraqis 1992-4 Somalia: US troops machine-gun crowd 1998 Iraq: four days of intensive air strikes. Daily bombing raids continue to present day 1999 Serbia: 78 days of NATO air strikes |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I knoe isnst its grate? its liek I r teh souper mad typings er oar shizzle mie nizzle |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I will find you a nice apartment in my building :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
N0 W4Y! 5H3$ L1vin9 w1+h M3 0n +3H m00N! 5H3 +0lD Me 50, 5h3 $41D w3 4r3 G01N9 +0 PL4Y cHEck3R$ 0n +h3 MO0N, n0 w4Y d00d, 5H35 C0M1n9 0N +3H m00N W1+H m31!!!!!!!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that was Red posting as me on my account however I will extend the invite as well :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
thansk guys :) i'll just pack up the cats and the music equipment and take a cab |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
The US government only operates in its own best interests it has no interest in providing aid unless there is something in it for themselves. It merely attempted to dump the rejected GE food on Africa's starving population last year. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
*I wish I lived in a forign country so that I could blame every problem in my life directly on the US too, how easy and great would that be,* If you had the opportunity to escape the media bubble that you are subjected to on a daily basis you would be more aware of your governments tinkering in foreign policy. I can relate to it as here we are subject to America media but other world media as well. We can see right in front of our eyes the spin and torque that your scaremongering media puts on the stories. They wont be satisfied until each and every American is a paranoid, agoraphobic, glued to the TV set and ordering the sponsers mechandise via mail order that is the perfect consumer that is being enivisioned. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Anytime :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I agree and disagree Red I think the american goverment HAS helped through history Its currupt, and does things for its own personal gain more often then not, and soft money and payoff's/deals are made out of the public eye probubly all the time, and it has done terrible things but it HAS aided and helped people. WWII for example, if we didnt help out, this world would be run by nazi's now. Whats better, to ATTEMPT to dump food, or not to at all, I mean really, they did give food to africa and ethiopia MANY times over. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I would like to think that as a country with membership in United Nations the US could play a better role in the world economy instead of overiding it most of the time. Not enough is done for the poorer countries the money spent on war should be reallocated to firstly to the poverty in the US which I find it hard to fathom and secondly countries in need. Some of unfortunate messes have involved countries such as Sierra Leone losing their self sufficiency with giving up traditional crops for ones suited to export and the outcome has been starvation and extreme poverty + Aids. Another nasty is the charge for water which the rights are owned by foreign corporations sanctioned by the World Bank. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Virtually none of that foreign aid money to poor countries ever gets anywhere near the poor unless you can count the armoured cars that patrol their neighbourhoods to protect the assassins when they go in to eliminate labour union leaders and journalists. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
It is BECAUSE of western capital in the first place that Africa is in such a state. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"Virtually none of that foreign aid money to poor countries ever gets anywhere near the poor unless you can count the armoured cars that patrol their neighbourhoods to protect the assassins when they go in to eliminatelabour union " leaders and journalists." That is a very generalized statement, but now who's fault is that, America gives countries aid, its THAT countries desicion what do with the money. If a leader decides to spend it on a golden rabbit lamp with studded diamonds or to spiffy up his mansion, its not America's problem. Africa is in such a state, because its leaders are greedy and squandering money on themselves rather then helping its people, Africa has always had problems with democracy. As far as saying you want America to play a bigger role in a world economy. Thats funny, you portray that you dont like what it has done when it has tried to help out nations in need, and yet you want it to play a BIGGER role in the world economy? Thats hypocritical to everything you have been saying so far. I have read most of Michal Moores's books, I also subscibe to various weekly newletters regaurding current events in American goverment from the left and right side (regaurding topics like ie. oil pipe line on the gaza strip, Bush Sr. having visits with the Osama family, burning of crops (cocaine/heroine plantations), selling of stock before 9/11, training talaban figheters, altering counting machines and poorly designing ballots in the florida state election, "losing" thousands of votes, giving talaban soldiers weaponry... and so on and so on and so on..).... I have read various economic and political science books, What I am trying to say is: its important to see both sides of things, to fully understand and know what is fabricated and embelished/ dramatized, finding someplace in the middle. Because both extreme right, and extreme left sided people lose touch of whats really important. Those people get caught up in the most minute detail, and twist it to suit their need and constantly |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
.....and constantly point the finger back and forth at eachother. I know American has done terrible things in the past, but I think its completly biased and unfair for people to ignore the fact that America has done great things aswell. Its a country that was founded to accept people of all types of race, religion. Its a country that accepts people from anywhere around the world can come and be WHATEVER they want to be, without consulting their goverment first. To be able to choose what they want to do with their life. There are a great many people in America dont agree and protest Bush's thoughts and actions on policy. If you saw the anit war marches in Los Angeles and Washington you would see a great many people who are not trapped in as you say the "media bubble", most people I know (family, friends) dont even watch people network news, because its the same thing over and over, violence, sex, drugs, crime. Most people I know watch cspan and cnn and read newsletters and the newpaper (mostly the LA and New York times) People are bashing America on here because they dont like Bush, or a republican run goverment, and the fact that republicans usually meddle in things they shouldnt (I have a big problem with Bush, and I sure dont like it things America has done in the past), every country has its ups and downs, America is in a big slump now, and as soon as Bush gets out of office, things will hopefully mend. Bill Clinton did some great things in his presidency, like balancing the budget, and creating this great surplus, and Bush is thowing it all away getting ready for war American HAS (usually under democratic presidency or majority of congress/senate it seems, not republican) done a great number of good things, ASWELL with the great number of bad things regarding world economy/policy. People from foriegn countries usually totally dismiss and ignore the good aspect America has done/shown in the past (ie. just how I mentioned WWII and how we helped the United Kingdom fight the Nazi's, and you then com |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
......and you then completly ignored it Red... and moved on to another negative issue) I try to at least take a non biased approach to a discussion, unlike some people here, because no matter how thin you can slice it, there are TWO sides to a story. Always |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
smoke the peace-pipe |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I am pretty aware and am in awe of the protests going in the US. I will repeat the US is a member of the United Nations and often does not comply itself with UN laws and is also under the United Nations obligated to give aid. However the changes to your home land security and the spread of your media has meant a whole race of people is being discriminated against and mistreated by your government and with the trickle down effect that has made it hard to live in America for Middle Easterns. America has much history of human rights abuse in foreign countries it is just unpopular to talk about such deeds. As far as WWII is concerned yes however the US continues to supply arms to Israel where there is bloodshed on both the Palestenian and Israelii sides and in foreign countries such as Indonesia it supports dicatorships that have killed millions of people. WWII - IBM offered the Nazis computers to tally up the dead in the death camps Time magazine nominated Hilter "person of the year" The Red Cross offered safe passage to Nazi war criminals to South America The OSS (former CIA) scooped up all the Nazi researchers and scientists. Your mental health system was aided by research from the Nazi psycharists conducted in the death camps. I may come from a 'foreign' country which in itself suggests to me that you see that Amercia is wrapped in its own world and that the rest of the world have heard and sympathised plenty with America's Sept 11 plight doesnt not make me biased when it comes to American foreign policy. It makes me sad that the tragedy is used as a platform to justify to start wars and advance the dehumisation and genocide of a entire race. Africa can be helped many times over with a change of attitude, people are generally shocked at what is happening to the white farmers of Zimbabwe but it was Rhodesia and as you have experinced in America blacks were used slaves and another race that has paid dearly. The horror of the amputated victims of the diamond smuggling in Sierra Leone h |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
has made my mind up not to wear a diamond ring - a strong tradition in Western captial. Someone made a point that the Taliban had destroyed the Buddhas in Afghanisation but had they heard of the Buddhas prior to that and were they aware that the Taliban were proactive in helping the US in its "War on Drugs" destroying opium crops. The Taliban werent heroes by any means but the US abandoned the Afghanisation freedom fighters the Mujahadeen after the Russians defeated leaving civil war and warlords to run amok. Its a well known fact there the Northern Alliance (human rights abusers in their own right) supported the Russians in their bid to gain power. I mean "think" Indiana Jones + Eqypt? Where did those artifacts in that museum come from? I love America and its people but I find the warmongering unacceptable and am irked by the spread of the media which in turn has personally affected my life causing me to take my landlord to court after he accused my husband of being "related to Osama Bin Laden"So I guess I take it personally |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I am sorry to hear that Red, that must have been awful to see your husband being accused like that :*( Its all very tragic and sad, events that have been happening after 9/11 too, especially the destruction of Buddhas that was just awfull when I saw that, that was such a horrible thing. Some of the left wing theories I hear, like the IBM relation to Nazi's, Walt Disney supporting Nazi'izm.... are just completly fabricated IMO. Especially if its info on the net. The net is such an unrelayable source, due to the fact that there is no checking up on the web sites, they can put whatever they want up (weather true or not), unless you know its from a credible source. Thats why I think its really important to find middle ground. I hope it doesnt come to war, but its hard to think it wont because all the U.S army is allready over there training and getting ready, and Bush has been talking out of both sides of his mouth (especially lately with the affirmitve action lawsuit... ) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Come on sweetie wake up... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
and while you are at it |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
and |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
or this... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Give this a go: and |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Wow that IBM book looks pretty interesting, I am going to look into that I recommend book. That book is VERY interesting. I got a lot of info on Iraq, Bush, middle east though the newsletter I get, here let me find a link to that too. I am somewhat of a WWII history buff, I love looking at that time in history, what a crazy time that was. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Septmeber 18, 2001 Interviewing Noam Chomsky Radio B92, Belgrade Q: Why do you think these attacks happened? Chomksy: To answer the question we must first identify the perpetrators of the crimes. It is generally assumed, plausibly, that their origin is the Middle East region, and that the attacks probably trace back to the Osama Bin Laden network, a widespread and complex organization, doubtless inspired by Bin Laden but not necessarily acting under his control. Let us assume that this is true. Then to answer your question a sensible person would try to ascertain Bin Laden's views, and the sentiments of the large reservoir of supporters he has throughout the region. About all of this, we have a great deal of information. Bin Laden has been interviewed extensively over the years by highly reliable Middle East specialists, notably the most eminent correspondent in the region, Robert Fisk (London _Independent_), who has intimate knowledge of the entire region and direct experience over decades. A Saudi Arabian millionaire, Bin Laden became a militant Islamic leader in the war to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan. He was one of the many religious fundamentalist extremists recruited, armed, and financed by the CIA and their allies in Pakistani intelligence to cause maximal harm to the Russians -- quite possibly delaying their withdrawal, many analysts suspect -- though whether he personally happened to have direct contact with the CIA is unclear, and not particularly important. Not surprisingly, the CIA preferred the most fanatic and cruel fighters they could mobilize. The end result was to "destroy a moderate regime and create a fanatical one, from groups recklessly financed by the Americans" (_London Times_ correspondent Simon Jenkins, also a specialist on the region). These "Afghanis" as they are called (many, like Bin Laden, not from Afghanistan) carried out terror operations across the border in Russia, but they terminated these after Russia withdrew. Their war was not against Russia, which the |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
