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...the preserve of the upper classes? Looks like the chavs are getting in on the action. Don't get me wrong, Deer are a nuisance/danger in the southeast and there should be a provision to ensure enough are , but this ain't the way to do it, IMO. |
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404 on that link. How the fuck do you justify calling deer a nuisance or danger? Because they might interfere with your fucking motoring, which is of paramount fucking importance? Fucking fuck. |
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round my place at home they fuck up fences and scare sheep too, but i still only seem to be a minor disturbance. i see them by the road a lot, but never in it. |
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they fuck up the fences, do they? and scare the sheep? those fucking cunts |
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airguns are a wee bit dodgy. definitely useful on a farm as a cheap alternative to a proper rifle etc. but i think they should be licensed. there's someone in my house with one who wants to go out and kill foxes and squirrels with it - in the middle of fucking Leicester. not a good idea. |
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which is why i said "they only seem to be a minor disturbance" |
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Yes, they kill dozens of motorists a year and injure hundreds, not to mention thousands more incidents of damage to vehicles. This is a particular problem around September/November (dark nights and mating season, so they run across the road all the time). A woman in a 4x4 was killed by one about 5 miles from here 2 years back. Don't think they're "green" either. Because they have no natural predators here and hunting is out of fashion/largely outlawed, they also knacker fences and eat crops, and farmers hate 'em. The cost agriculture millions just in the south east and also damage protected woodland (by feeding on trees). Most of the country, even in Northern Scotland, they're not a big problem. In the south east there are absolutely loads of the buggers. It's a recognised problem and they're changing the law on it because it has gotten so bad (). As I say, I think we do need to cull them, but hunting them with dogs and air rifles is incredibly cruel and not the way to do it. I suppose the original article (link works for me BTW) also illustrates that they're increasingly moving into more urban areas (not unlike bears in bits of America) where not only will the amount of incidents involving traffic/fences and litter soar exponentially, but there's the added danger to pedestrians. Bucks in mating season are rather feisty to say the least and would wreck most humans in a tussle. Have you seen the damage done to communities when pikeys graze their horses on urban areas? Deer aren't so different. |
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With the cost of shotgun cartridges these days, I can't see a legit use for airguns for pest control, apart from places where you need v. low penetration (like in buildings) or where you need comparative silence (hunting rabbits). Hell, a half decent double barrel shotgun is now cheaper than serious pest control airgun anyway. I think using airguns on larger animals (such as deer) is inherently cruel as you're unlikely to kill the animal swiftly. I'd be all for airgun licencing and I'm someone who shoots and think gun laws for sport/hunting are a bit over-restrictive in this country. |
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people actually get killed because of the buggers? didnt realise. redrum: i presume you don't drive? |
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they use air rifles on the farm at home to kill foxes. they lose a chicken every week to foxes, and so they just shoot them on sight. |
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i like Hunting Bears |
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The other day I turned the corner into my road and walked straight into a horse. I didn't think about killing them all, but there is some rural type who lets his fucking mangy steeds wander round our close eating the grass and crapping everyone, chased everywhere by a pack of dogs. Oh the joys of nature. This hasn't got much to do with the thread. You can't shoot Bambi, no matter how many there are, it won't be a problem anyway on the road soon when all the mums in their SUVs and 4x4s upgrade to Urban Humvees and armoured cars. |
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cars, humans and fences are better than deer :D (my arse) are deers the new wolf? (we exterminated tons of wolves and it's made whole parks in the states die, trees and grass , birds and herbivores all suffered from the dissapearance of the wolf.) i guess we like to control it all, and it's always gonna be for our sake and fuck the rest. |
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there we go, that's the redrum we've come to expect! |
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hahaha! hummer city |
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well there's no problem with them being in parks, is there? but the ones over here are wild and free to cause whatever havoc they will e.g. causing motorists to swerve out of the way and end up getting killed. |
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Yeah, it's not really common knowledge, most people think it's really rare and in most of the country, it is. Round here (near my work- not home in Wales!) everyone knows someone who has been involved in an accident with one. Thinking about it I have heard of people hunting foxes at night with air rifles- it's because you can get ones that are silent and it gives you a chance of a second shot if you miss, isn't it? I also think the majority of air rifles in urban areas are used for less than savoury purposes. I suppose this is changing a bit with the growing popularity of airsoft (not something I'm into, but I know a few people who are big fans and wouldn't like a blanket ban). I'm not sure of the specifics of the legislation, but I'd hope some distinction would be made between pellet airguns and plastic BB ones (if there's not already) for this reason. |
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"air rifles on packs of dogs and deer" i could torture these kids. |
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yeah i know mate, but i still think that way of seing things is shit. loadsa of deer where i live, i dunno HOW WE DO IT! |
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is this thread about 'survival' ? |
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Ironically, they are currently talking about re-introducing wolves to northern Scotland for ecological reasons. They're already anticipating that within 150 years they'll reach the stage where they're a significant pest and the benefits will be outweighed by the disadvantages (and suggest we could re-introduce wolf hunting to deal with it). A lot of people are dead against it (the reintroduction) mind... |
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yeah was reading about it a few days ago. i had fascination for the wolf/human thing a while ago and did a bit of research and stuff and was quite amazed. i'm not surprised some people are dead against it though, 'specially farmers. i'll put the kettle on. |
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Oh, my dear Ezkerraldean, motorists are evil and deserve all they get. Even if they swerve to avoid a buck and plough into a line of kids waiting for a bus, killing dozens of people, it's a price worth paying so we can have some nice looking animals that are bad for our ecology and ruin farming running about. RussellDust: Recently they reintroduced otters near hear. They've been nothing but trouble, daming rivers and seriously depleting fish stocks. In the words of an old farm hand I was chatting to about it, "It's these daft twats from the city who don't know the ways of the country interfering where they shouldn't. If an animal harms your crops or livestock, it's a pest and should be destroyed." Now, that's putting it a bit black and white; I agree sometimes it can actually be better in the long run to introduce something to the ecosystem. I think we should bear in mind, however, that most past attempts at predicting what effects introducing an animal will have, have been inaccurate at best (Red Squirrels in English parkland and American crayfish in UK waters, anyone?) and more often, spectacularly inaccurate and overall a resoundingly bad idea. |
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well sure, i understand what you're saying. i do feel there's a difference between some rich twats putting new species into rivers that end up eating everything else. or these american catfish that carry a fungus that kills the Og catfish in rivers. some species did belong in 'your' rivers and forests though and we killed them all. re-introducing something that was there before may cause trouble but you know, it's not like introducing new 'exotic' species that end up fucking up the ecosystem that was in place. i do get your point of view, but in the end you still only really think about humans. as for the bit about the guy swerving to miss a deer but who runs a line of kids over, that was hilarious. :) |
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fuck i meant crayfish and didn't finish reading your post before i dug in. soz about that. |
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whistlez to the jungle book soundtrack ... |
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i see like 65 deer a day around my house, but i have yet to feel the desire to shoot one. i do wanna throw a saddle on one and ride it around the woods though. |
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I'm quite open about the fact that I care about humans more than animals. I don't only care about animals when it's directly in human's interests though, for example I'm not keen on hunting for sport unless it is a form of pest control. I do feel in cases where farmers' crops will be affected in any sort of significant way, and especially when people will be injured or killed, that I think humans have priority. I know and respect the other side of the argument, my last girlfriend was an active conservationist and indeed I myself have helped with conservation projects that aren't directly in human's interests (woodland preservation and forestry management in the UK, Archelon in Greece, etc). I think your earlier point about survival is accurate; I think I ultimately consider myself a survivalist and my attitude to animals stems from this. No worries about the crayfish mistake. Crayfish are the tastiest seafood though, IMO. |
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that's not what i said at all! i didnt know they were responsible for people getting killed. if they are causing problems like that, i am all up for getting rid of them. i live on a farm and know that they can piss people off, but not to any great degree in situations like that. i've never been threatened by one in the road despite seeing them quite often near roads. but if they are causing problems as serious as road deaths then fuck 'em. Redrum would probably say otherwise though. |
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its quite interesting how my views have changed actually. when i was living in a town (albeit a tiny ural town) i was quite pro-animal rights, and got really pissed off with my farmer friends when they told me about when they went out shooting rabbits. but now i've lived on a farm for a fair while (outside of uni anyway) my mindset has changed a lot. i've realised that various cute and cuddly little animals are little more than pests to farmers. i no longer swerve to avoid rabbits in the road. so many of the fucking cunts. |
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Deer are vermin. I'm all for hunting them, especially if it upsets weepy stupid hippies. Reintroduce wolves, hunt the goddamn deer, and let men go armed. That's my platform. |
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i'd rather see deer killed than human beings. more space for us, less for them. fuck em. |
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i bet you actively take part in the whole seal culling in canada (baby seal season) and LOVE IT! :D |
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Oh deer! |
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I think Redrum is making the point that humans are so egocentric and arrogant that because a certain animal is a nuisance to them or their property/pets/lifestyle, they must therefore be a nuisance/menace/danger full-stop, and therefore killed by humans. I'd say it was a fair point: I don't see many deer on the brink of nuclear meltdown or committing genocidal atrocities on other type of deer. I know the normal rebuttal to this is "Oh, but if they could they would" or "well, they don't have the intelligence of hand[to]eye co-ordination to press the button"; I don't buy either of those arguments. |
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and also, "they cause accidents", FUCK OFF YOU'RE DRIVING A FUCKING CAR PAY ATTENTION IF YOU'RE CERI JC THEN YOU KNOW THE BRAKING DISTANCES IN WET WEATHER AT 48MPH AND SO SHOULD BE DRIVING ACCORDINGLY, INSTEAD OF MOANING ABOUT CULLING DEER. it's the FUCKING DRIVER'S FAULT, not the deer's. if this were a discussion in a pub, ceri, and i were drunk enough, i tell you, the temptation to shove my pint glass in your face would be immense. you are something else, you know that? something fucking else |
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Yes they do interfere with our motoring. But so do Kangaroo's and Elk. Sometimes Ducks walk across our streets and slow us down... I've also been inconvenienced by squirrels and the Amish.. |
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your anger and threats to harm another person for their viewpoint do not reflect your compassion for animals. |
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how can anyone validate the suffering caused for animals (or humans) for the sake of something inanimate such as roads or traffic, or because of any judgement? or worse still, how can it be viewed as entertainment once one is aware of the nature of that suffering? |
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I know mate, I was taking the piss out of redrum. ;) |
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I think you're the arrogant one. You know fuck-all about driving and so far as I know, don't even drive, but seem to feel you are the authority on the matter. You also seem to think that because you don't drive personally, everyone who does is somehow engaging in a selfish dangeorus hobby and it is completely uneccessary. If you were some hippy living out in the sticks and having bugger all to do with modern life, I could at least understand and respect your viewpoint. As it is, from what I can gather, you live in a fairly built up area and attend a university. Well, guess what feller, you need cars to sustain your way of life just as much as the people who drive. My "office" is at home, so I don't drive every day- I could actually get by without a car for personal use and in fact do often walk, rather than drive when I can(case in point, I walked a mile and a half across town this morning, rather than driving, to get to a job). I do drive and ride an awful lot for work though- 95%+ of my miles are done for business. Guess who my main clients are? Universities. So, if I (and people who do my job) can't drive, your happy little backwater student existance wouldn't be possible (or at least, it would cost you a great deal more). You're incredibly ignorant. Saying "It's always the driver's fault" when you know fuck-all on the subject is like me making some wildly inaccurate sweeping comment like "All plane crashes are the pilot's fault". In intrigued as to where your irrational hatred of drivers comes from. Were your parents killed by a dangerous driver or something? I've been hit by a car as pedestrian. The driver stopped, waved me across in front of him, then stalled the car and it lurched forward into me. Made me pissed me of at him, didn't alter my attitude to drivers as a whole. Your comment about glassing was rather out of line too. |
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so what if a deer is startled and runs out in front of you? nothing you can do then, is there? its not as if they just stand static in the road |
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I'm with the deers in this one... |
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As soon as a species is removed from an ecosystem, reintroducing it is the same as trying to introduce an exotic species. There is no way you can fix what was done by undoing it. |
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Just out of interest, what are the opinions of people who 'side with the deer' on the following (assuming they're not vegatarians, of course!): Breeding and keeping, say, cows for milk and meat, where the animal's whole life is rather joyless and artificial (I'm sure they can't be "happy" in this situation, if indeed animals can feel happiness in any meaningful way). I think hunting an animal is a bit more natural- it's what animals do to one another in the wild. It's often overlooked today, but rabbit used to be a staple meat, far moreso than chicken or cow in Britain (especially rural areas), up until the end of WW1. Would it be better to encourage the hunting of certain animals for food that currently are often just killed as "pests" by farmers, eg rabbits and deer? Even among farmers, a lot of rabbits killed are not eaten. If we ate more rabbit and deer, fewer animals would be killed in total, not to mention the need for fewer animals to be kept in captivity. |
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free-range farming presumably keeps cows etc. happy. i'm all for that, and it's what they do at home. |
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Yes, when I've kept chickens they've been free range and seemed happy. I was talking more about intensive "rammed in like cattle" farming where the animals really do have a poor quality of life. Imagine we could replace that with the hunting. |
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chavs should be the ones getting fucking culled. cunts |
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Agreed. |
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i just look at it from an ethical viewpoint, which has been influenced by a few dozen buddhist dhamma talks. but i have a problem taking the argument to a dietary level because of my chef training. that makes it hard. i can say that i dont want to drop any live lobsters in boiling water :( |
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