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I can remember when all this iraq shit took place that there were several yanks on here supporting That fucker bush and his policy of ethnic cleansing across the world. I would just like to see these guys speak up now and see if they still believe that horseshit. IF NOT, APOLOGISE. |
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they can apologize all they like, but i won't accept their apologies. they're idiots. |
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Don't shit where you eat. |
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That's a warning buddy. Don't criticize tha good old U S of A! |
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if you don't like it, leave! support our troops! |
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exactly my man. no democracy in america any more. that's right. |
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Nah I just felt like saying that. Fuck Bush! Fuck Arabs! Fuck Oil! Fuck my wife! |
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The Iraq war is retarded. Really stupid thing to get into. Bush sucks and anyone in Iraq is a sucker in a business man's pawn game, but America isn't the only one to break the vase. Britain is largely responsible for fucking up the middle east. Cutting that place up without asking questions has spurred hundred year endless battles. I'm sure you are British too, cause British people are so self righteous it stinks. |
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can i call round @10.00 |
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You were pro Bush/pro war...now you seek to shift the blame/cause. Pathetic. |
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elusive did if I remember correctly...that fucking smirking face in his avatar around that time made me leave in a muffled huff |
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what is a 'hundred year endless battles"? |
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britain is in bed with america |
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tony blair is guilty as bush by supporting the WMD lie. he claimed, "we know he has weapons of mass destruction." that helped supported of the invasion, supported bush, and got bush elected for a second term. the invasion has led to 150,000 innocent deaths, thousands of soldier deaths. blair, bush, powell, rumsfeld, rice, etc, their hands are stained with the blood of 150,000+ innocents. i wonder how he can sleep at night. |
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you guys really rush all over yourselves trying to be the first and best at regurgitation, it's bizarre and funny. http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/thinktanktown/2005/11/a_che here, i'll do my part. here's a strictly regurgitated link: erier_view.html |
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that shut you up huh. wonderful |
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Hooray. Iraq's economy is booming. Despite America stealing all their oil. How peculiar. Still doesn't bring back the hundreds of thousands of innocent civiliians who have been slaughtered or the many more who now live life in fear because of the occupation by america. |
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bullshit. there's nothing that constitutes an "economic boom" happening in Iraq. Perhaps compared to recent times, when aid sanctions spear-headed by the US which killed tens of thousands, there is. But it's bullshit to think that there's hope over there. Look at the bigger picture. |
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3.5 million cellular phone subscribers Well worth the price of 150,000 innocent lives. Thats 23 subscriptions for every one person killed. The US should be getting paid commission. |
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Sorry, 3.5 million new cellular phone subscribers. |
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it's hard to believe your posts aren't meant to be parodies. please, please tell me they are. |
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Who are you directing that towards? (Anybody who takes internet chat too serious needs head checking. It should always be parody to some extent. Otherwise its unhealthy) |
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bill and red rum's last two bits. they could very easily be parodies of lefties on conservative blogs or something... it's so hard to tell what's serious. for god sake's someone be sincere for three seconds |
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i'd like you to point out one single thing that is incorrect in my post. |
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But it's bullshit to think that there's hope over there. there's one single thing |
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and of course there's thinking the US sanctions are responsible for the civilian deaths, when their leader lived in grand palaces... what an incredibly warped way to play the blame game. |
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Neither of us can ascertain, for definite, whether or not there is hope there. However, the reason I said it's bullshit (naive would be a better word) to think that there is hope (and by hope i mean widespread hope) over there, is that there's over 100,000 dead, the country is occupied - and the population feel that way about it, the US has turned it into the "frontline in the war against terror" making it a living hell-on-earth... They had Saddam for decades, the gassings, the oppression, the first gulf war, then the sanctions which killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and now this; not being able to walk down a street without fear of being blown up. So, considering that, I think it would be incredibly naive to think that there's hope there. The US invasion wasn't seen as a "new beginning" for the Iraqi people, as it was billed over in the states, since the dictator had fallen: it was seen as more of the same, only now the "same" had its horror, bloodshed and inhumanity intensified. |
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Err, it's the absolute truth. Tens of thousands did die as a result of the sanctions. You think it's reasonable to expect a dictator to sell his grand palaces, loosing face and humiliating himself, in order to serve his people? get real. of course that would never happen, and the US knew it. The US destroyed any chance of Saddam being toppled from within by denying aid to Iraq. Had they actually funded resistance, as they've done elsewhere in the word -- in the Americas in particular, with "great" results for the US (not so great for the inhabitants of the country, who underwent horrific decades of torture and civil war) -- Saddam would've been toppled by his own people. This, however, is unacceptable to the US, as it would not have left them in charge of what they have many times described as a "region of immense strategic and economic influence". |
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"that shut you up huh. wonderful" |
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it's reasonable for a ruler to be held responsible for the general well being of his people and not some other country. this is simple enough to understand. i won't pretend to know the ins and outs of the first gulf war, or the aftermath, or to defend either side in that, but the current cynicism for the current war, this project, is amazing and disgusting. whether or not you agree with the initial choice to take action (and i don't), to deny that it's done any good is to deny reality. all of the good is under-reported, denied, played down. there is a whole lot of people over there who actually are grateful. to portray it as so 'obviously evil' like you do in this thread is not realistic. it's a bias that's become too ridiculous to support. your facts and figures are bloated and unkempt. you are not looking at all there is to look at. but i am not your teacher. if you want to live in a one shade world, have fun at it |
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And if you want to continue to live in YOUR one shade world, in which you blindly believe that the spread of American imperialism and neo-conservative, neoliberal dogma in the Middle East is a good thing, YOU have fun at it. |
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but i didn't say any of that. and the only reason you know any of those big fake words is because you're not thinking. you read and repeat. it hurts my soul to see it. we all do this to some degree but i try to look at everything. i do not chant slogans, i do not adopt rousing terms. i am just trying to see things how they really are. i see reports of happy people. i don't think everyone's happy. but i am optimistic. i can decide that a free iraq is better than an iraq under saddam. that is so simple to see. how is this imperialism? how has america benefitted at all from this fight? our popularity is in the toilet. our gas prices are outrageous. we haven't taken their oil. i hope at the end of it they'll give us a discount for our trouble or something, but i doubt anything of the sort will be demanded. |
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I'd also contend that the article you linked to is absolute tripe. It claims that per capita income has doubled in two years, that 30,000 new businesses have started up, etc. I fail to see how that can possibly be true. How could it have happened over such a short time period, whilst a war rages, and during all the unrest, social and political upheaval, etc that is currently going on in Iraq? I currently live in Lithuania, a country that was part of the USSR until 1991. Lithuania has had the fastest economic growth in Europe in recent years, yet even during the 14 years since independence, things haven't improved here as much as that article claims they have done in two years in Iraq. And Lithuania is much more stable politically and hasn't had any wars raging in it. There's no way I can prove that it is, and there's no way you can prove that it isn't, but to me that article is clearly and blatantly propaganda and bullshit. |
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since you are not an economist and neither am I, and since the author is probably the only one of us to have actually been there, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt over your civilian calculations. |
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being there in person is good for having access to, you know, evidence. to call something "blatantly propaganda and bullshit" without evidence is, besides ridiculous, a gross misuse of the word 'blatant' |
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OK, I'm sorry I offended your intelligence by using "big words". If they confuse you so much, perhaps you should go and look them up. And to accuse me of "not thinking" based on what I typed earlier is a little bit pathetic, as I could just as easily say the same about you. But I won't. It's imperialism because America is spreading its ideology of (there's a link for you there, hopefully you'll look it up and understand what I'm talking about this time) around the world. This is 21st Century imperialism - Bush is supporting the in promoting their ideals in the Middle East. If you want to know WHY America invaded Iraq, and WHY the "War On Terror" was started, I suggest you watch the documentary "The Power Of Nightmares". It's available for download |
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OK, you go on "giving the benefit of the doubt". You seem to be quite good at that. The author's been there, so it must be true. I, on the other hand, haven't and therefore I am not allowed to make an educated guess, according to you. Does that mean, therefore, that if an astronaut says that the moon is made of cheese we should blindly believe what he says, even though we know that it can't possibly be true? |
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he calls it propaganda and then links me to propaganda.. i'm sorry i'm too tired for this. and its not that i don't understand your big words, it's that they're not useful for life |
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Erm..... tell me what I've linked you to that constitutes propaganda? If you think that those words are big and have no use, I'm obviously wasting my time debating this issue with you. What a completely preposterous thing to say - the word "neoliberal" is rather useful as it DESCRIBES something (a political-economic philosophy). That's like saying that the word "apple" isn't useful. Of course it's useful, it is USED to DESCRIBE something. |
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beneficieries of the war in iraq: - haliburton + other major american contractors, private security firms (ex-cia, ex-military), neo-cons (becasue they have ties with the contractors), and middle class iraqis who glean from the resultant pickings all this is short-term money-making bullshit The oil will still run out in 50 years and there'll still be militancy in the region. 6 billion dollars a month would be better spent on improving long term resource management, not short term, like what is happening. I undestand the american position, as it worked in japan and germany post-WW2, but they diodn;t have the same information-age technology, and they did;t have extremem militancy. All this is also fueled by the post cold-war glut in arms, personel and technology. Most private security firms involved on the us side were born out of surplus re3sources after the cold war eneded. On the other side you have ex-eastern bloc miltiants and illegal arms trades providing the impetous for incursions. Its a fuck-storm and a natural evolutuion of the decay of 2 world powers into fragmented resource-grabbing entities. It'll settle naturally un til the next fuck-storm but by then our weather will prpbably give in. It's time we woke up. |
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it's obvious we can't understand eachother, let's quit while i'm ahead |
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Ho ho ho. At least you have a sense of humour, even if you are unable to debate an issue without looking completely uninformed. |
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i can't tell whether "vacant"'s trolling or not. he hasn't addressed any of the perfectly valid points made against him. perhaps "vapid" would've been a better choice of username. |
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you guys aren't worthy of debate, and i'm not equipped to deal with (or slang my own) rhetoric. but as long as we're allowed to slang links around, here's a nice one i just found. i double doggy dare any of you to logically refute http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/podhoret anything in it: z1205advance.html |
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my opinion hasn't changed much |
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that's because 'the big lie' works |
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huh? is that reply to me? what assumptions are you making? |
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If you actually put some thought into what you're writing, instead of just writing weak insults like "you guys aren't worthy of debate", you might've been more respected in this thread. You're under a false sense of optimism about the whole situation, one which it seems like you've been placed under by Fox News showing heart-warming stories about how "it's really not all that bad down in Iraq!" From your linked page, i just read: But it is as close to certainty as we can get that Bush believed in the truth of what he was saying about WMD in Iraq. How is any of this commentary logical? It's not at all. That quote is a mere opinion, and there's not a whole lot to support it. You should read up on recent American meddling around the world and realise that this Iraq shit is nothing new, only that this is one of the few times that the US Military is directly involved. I doubt you will though; you seem far too close-minded and deadset in your ways. If you were here in real life, I'd debate this with you, but it's too much effort to keep typing stuff out that you'll not respond to. |
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