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pim fortuyn, a liberal dutch politician was murdered yesterday in hilversum after giving a radio interview. the assasin was arrested immediately afterwards. fortuyn's party was going to win big time in the coming elections. abroad, he was considered to be the dutch le pen, which is an exaggeration. i found some of his ideas (regarding immigration) ridiculous, but others were groundbreaking and eye opning. i wasn't going to vote for him, mind. i sincerely hope that democracy will survive this blow and holland (and europe) will not turn into a bananarepublic where polticians are murdered and people have a price on their head only because they have an opnion. i think i speak for all dutch people when i say the events of yesterday had as big an impact on them as september 11 did. |
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wasnt he some kind of evil muslim hating fascist though? (not denying anyones point of view though) |
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^ yeah .. my parents are there at the mo, incredible tense feeling i take it .. shocking indeed |
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I thought he was loosing the election, that he really had no real power. Well he is mighty powerfull now I guess. Stupid assasin! Its probably some other right wing fascist pig behind this murder.... well I dont know much about dutch politics.... |
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^ was to netlon .. |
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co-ex: the way it sounded he was going to be in the coalition - thus having a significant impact (tho not going to be the main dude) |
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He was a Muslim-hating guy who pretended to be a normal politician. He insulted Muslimculture(backwards desertculture), wanted to cancel the anti-discriminationlaw and supported Ariel Sharon with his latest actions against palesinian people. I can't be too sad about this event. It's bad for democracy though.... |
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ok, korben. I like the way the french election turned out, but I dont care much for these right-winged tendencies I see all over Europe at the moment.... |
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The only good facist is a dead facist in my book. |
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mmhh.. tis a bit of a worry - this whole nationalism thing seems to be going against the whole point of "europe" ? |
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This guy wasn't a fascist though, people are forgetting in all other area's he was liberal, it was only in the areas regarding immigration and his comments on islam that were the problem. |
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Oh, and his support for Sharon. Attempting the removal of a statute that prohibits discrimination, if not facism, comes close enough for me. |
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Fortuyn only said that the islam culture was backwards because he was insulted for being lower than a pig (he's a homosexual, and in the islam homosexuals are lower than pigs) He later declared that he found the islam backward, because of the discrimination of women and stuff. Because our country is one of the most tolerant country's in tha world when it comes to immigrants, Pim Fortuyn said we should be more carefull when allowing people to live in our country. The media immediately made him look like hitler #2, but the man has NEVER SAID ANYTHING that looks like fasism or anything else, so in my opinion the media are guilty too (sorry just had to say that) |
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So trying to get of legislation against discrimination doesn't reek of facism to you? Strange. |
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what isnt discriminatory to anyone these days |
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Uh? |
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there are so many (etnic) groups these days, if you do something there's always a person who thinks it is discrimination. The man just said what he tought about things, and then he gets shot... that aint right |
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Yes i'm not going to write him off as a fascist, sorry, its too strong a word |
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Immigrants were a vital "Reserve army" of labour when they first arrived, doing jobs no-one else would do . Now they run successful businesses here and support our economy. And twats like Fortuyn/Griffin say "they come over here and take all our jobs blah blah.." Hope thats not the end of the killings. |
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How ambigous can you be. He said that a section of people, namely immigrants and Muslims, have no place in 'his' society. That's facistic in that it is an attack on the freedom of a people. The Nazis began by scapegoating the Jews and saying they had no place in society and look what happened. You shouldn't apologise for this guy. He had it coming. |
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hmm, i'm all for a racially tolerant country but I don't want to live in a country where democracy is stifled due to disagreements about their policies (and I stress policies). I like how ethnically diverse Britain is, but I don't want a complete influx of immigrants unless its controlled and we can handle it. |
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Yeah, you could argue he had its coming but in a democracy he shouldn't be killed just because of *his* beliefs...its up to the people whether he gets power or not. The problem was that they were siding with him. |
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>smokehammer: And twats like Fortuyn/Griffin say "they come over here and take all our jobs blah blah.." pim fortuyn never siad that or anything like that |
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1 in every 2000 people in Britain now entered as an "Illegal Immigrant" last year . thats 0.05 %. or 1% over 20 years. I hardly think David Blunkett should be going round scare-mongering with talk of Britain being "SWAMPED" by foreigners. Then again he is a politician.... |
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JAroen... Fortuyn said on the BBC last week in his interview with John Simpson... "We are like a house with guests, and then one day you wake up and realise the guests have taken over... and its got to stop ! " hmmm..... Its all about playing on a fear of outsiders isn't it ? ="xenophobia" ="Racism" i rest my case. |
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well he's right! lately the marrokkan community wrote a letter to the government that our constitution had to be altered, so that girls could mary at the age of 14! they come to live here, so they must adapt to our standards, not the other way around and this happens because we are WAYYYY too tolerant |
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he also said he was misquoted by the BBC |
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the media turns him into a monster... |
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Girls should marry whenever their culture allows. Assimilation in our society is always one - way, and it involves burying their culture and assuming ours. Its like we actually enjoy fucking with peoples heads and forcing them to negate and subjugate their roots. "Union Jack Boxer Shorts For The Blacks" syndrome. "Make the Hindu women wear Jeans" syndrome. Its Racism behind a liberal veneer. |
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not everyone is Norman Tebbit, there are laws for a reason most of the time, whether right or wrong |
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? |
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B3N.. fair enough but i was responding to JAroens idea that everyone should "ADAPT TO OUR STANDARDS" which seems a little bit Draconian and stifling to me. |
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well both sides IMO should compromise somewhat |
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and anyway, race relations in britain are far far better than what the media makes out |
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JAroen: its not YOUR country so fuck your rules. This isn't my country, my relatives came from Ireland a few generations ago and this country is built on immigration. There's enough for everyone, its only beause the rich accumulate all the welath that we are driven to blame each other. Your arguments smack of racism. |
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yes , we make a good team. I'm as racist as the best of them when it suits me. At least everyone I know (apart from my Grandma ) doesn't sympathise with the BNP. The British Media like to pontificate and point fingers and inflate issues , and you walk down the street and everythings fine. I wouldn't leave my house if I watched too much news :D |
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My attitude for myself is> 1.don't indulge "race" as a divisive issue. 2.fight racism. 3.and never accept that you can never be racist yourself. |
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" There's enough for everyone" yeah but jonesy we aren't and won't ever live in a marxist utopia, money has no prejudices |
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well the media always needs some kind of folk devil to sell papers. look at paedophilia, its not as if its just increased over the past 3 years even thought there's far more cases of it in the papers |
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don't get me started on Pediatricians !!!!! (sic) theres one surefire example of the neurosis of our society !!! on Nicky Campbells show on Radio 5 today they were discussing the age of consent (higher in Britain than anywhere else in Europe) and most people were ranting on about lowering the age of consent being a "Green LIght" to pedophiles. Your right B3n... as was Brass Eye Pedo special. Britain has the highest pre-16 pregnancy rate in Europe. But we are the "DEFENDERS OF CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE !!!" ... LOL ;D |
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A fascist pretending not to be fascist is more dangerous than a normal fascist....and people believing him only makes things worse IMHO. The saddest thing is people falling for his tricks :( |
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yes its all very contradictory |
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I'm not naive enough to place my hopes in a Marxist utopia. I just believe that there's an alternative was of organising society that is perfectly plausible and possible. People like Le Pen, Fortuyn and even our more liberal leaders like New Labour maintain or seek power through the old adage of 'divide and rule' and division along racial or religious lines will do fine thank you very much. That's why we must oppose racism, not purely for moral reasons, but because its an attack on all of our freedoms. |
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sorry, I don't believe we could ever live in a better place, hate will always be around, just tranferred to different things |
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But racial hatred hasn't always existed so you can't assert that it always will. It has served its purpose in the development of capitalism, dating back to the slave trade. Ideas can only be understood in relation to the society in which they develop. A society based on different relationships can give rise to different ideas e.g non-prejudicial ideas |
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isalm doesn't consider this polirtician lower than a pig cos he was gay - there is one mention in of the punishmnent of gays in the qu'ran - i can't remember off hand - it's n the early suras but it's a whipping i think - pretty bad but no worse than the bible . It's worth remembering that homosexuality weas only legalised in 1070 in the uk and is still illegal in some us states even though as in islam it exists . any politician who plays the get with our culture or get out game is playing very silly games with fascisim - for as srart these decisions are always made along lifestyles that are defined by race or religion - it's bad enough having popular culture shoved in yuor face every day by advertsing newspapers tv etc tellin g you what is culturally up or down - this politician assunmed superiorty because of something implicit like colour of skin or religion - ! ridiculous |
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i really should preview my messages :) homosexuality was only legalised in 1970 not 1070 - |
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What happened to those good old days where everyone who was anyone was considering themselves a nihilist. This whole topic would have been cleared up in one reply; "I wish they would all just dissapear, so I can be alone in my pit of nothingness." |
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I completely agree with JAroens points of view. Fortuyn wasn't a racist/fascist at all. Some of his quotes are a little bit outrageous (about the muslim culture) but everything he has said is basically true. I mean...the unfair treatment of women is so unmodern IMHO. And his opinion on Holland being full is just true. 16 million people in such a small country, that is my definition of full. But there is always a small group of people who take his words completely wrong because they are not used to someone saying what it's like. |
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I agree too, I have nothing to add. |
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