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sigh... fortuyn definately had extreme right wing ideas, he wanted to stop immigration and called the islam 'backward culture'. both ideas are utter bulshit, ofcourse. but he also had good criticism on the way in which the dutch government governs this country. too much of the decisionmaking process is done behind closed doors, that's not democratic at all. and he made us realize that. it is outrageous to compare fortuyn to hitler or even haider. you people abroad shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper. the one thing he did for me (and countless other ppl over here) is that he made me interested in politics again. he made me want to go vote in the elections next week (granted, agains fortuyn). finally, even if fortuyn were a right wing extremist, would that justify his murder? |
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Apparently he was a Marxist before. I concede that he wasn't a facist but its a start. |
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yeah he was pretty much a left winger in his old days... ironically he was killed by a left wing extremist and another thing: get over the fact this man was gay, please :) i mean, i remember all those english mp's who got caught doing sm and stuff. there's prolly loads of secretaries etc. who are gay |
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I thought it was an animal rights activist not a lefty. They ain't necessarily the same and in most cases aren't. |
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I think he was killed because he wanted to restart the breeding of animals for their fur. I think it all comes down to what your definition of extreme rightwing is. For me, he was a rightwing extremist but compared to Hitler, he was an angel. |
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he wanted to ease restrictions on fur-farming. thats bound to upset people who care about animal rights. I do not agree with any murder. Fur-farming for fashion is pretty fucking sick too. |
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The thing is no one knew what Hitler was going to do when he first claimed power if I've got that right. They start by attacking Jews or Muslims or whoever and then who knows. Power must be taken by the majority to prevent this kind of thing happening. Liberal democracy is a lie. However, who's to say the UK government is any less racist? Accumulatively our state perpetrates terrible crimes against minority groups, its just more subtle and not so stark. Take for example the number of black deaths in police custody which has continues to rise. Also locking asylum seekeres up in what are essentially concentration camps is also just as racist. They just give it a different gloss. Here ends today's lecture. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord... |
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Ahh, jonesy has a fine point here, believe it or not, he's unaware that he shares some opinions with Baudrillard (no less): our societies are based on discrimination, our culture is based on discrimination. Racism of the extreme right is just a romantic dilusion/ power fantasy while the most of our societies discriminate against children, classes, women, insane etc. |
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Oh dear...Baudrillard? Ahem. I take it back. |
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Come on, you almost got us fooled with your Trotskyst posturing, while you wank over Lyotard and Deleuze in the privacy of your bedroom. Baudrillard is sprayed all over your last post, mate!!! |
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I've been busted. I did well to keep it up so long though eh? Do you recommend Discipline and Punish? Marxism doesn't explain enough for me. I had a disagreement with some of my comrades recently. |
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Wow, have they formed a discipline comittee to punish and teach you? Just kidding... Yeah, that book is very good read and is generally very resourceful as all Foucault's books are, also try to check out "History of Madness in the Age of Classicisma" (my translation may be completely wrong, mind you) as it really expands on the views we have on insane people. |
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Will do. Its just that they say stuff like "When we have a socialist society it'll be like this...". They believe that the "positive" aspects of human nature are the "natural" way of behaving e.g co-operation etc. I'm not so sure any more. I suggested we overemphasise these aspects and that we will always have the instinct to dominate others and force our will upon them. Power is related to the class structure but if the structure changed who's to say new relations of domination based on other means or relationships will not materialise. |
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Man, are you doing this just to make me cum or are you seriously reforming? You are right: structures of power stem from deep inside of our nature. Non-abusive behaviour is a result of a conscious effort not of our peaceful nature. After all we are essentially Hunters-Gatherers. |
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Yes I'm trying to make you climax. Listen: Marx is dead. Class is irrelevant now. The 'hyper-reality'. The gulf War never happened. Signs. The panoptican. Are you there yet? Shoot it, shoot it. No, seriously. I think my optimism and hope clouded my view of things. I think the darker nature of human beings is pushed to the side by Marxism. I need to investigate this. I was going to start with Foucault but maybe I should start with Freud, or Nietchze. |
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^ surely abusive behaviour also requires concious effort - surely the same extent as non-abusive ? ofcourse there are exceptions .. but surely these go both ways? |
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not meaning to intrude excessively - but i would strongly recommend nietzsche .. specially latter forshadows so much of 20th century philosophy .. |
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I only touched on him briefly in uni as I had to write an essay. He's always referred to. |
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Korben: Nice to see ya, well, I wouldn't say so: abusing power is so much easier than abstaining from it, because the person acting does not see it as abuse, but we define it as abuse, of course. We are naturally inclined to impose our power on others and it's only civilisation process that makes us hold back. Jonesy: you tease you. I climaxed all over the keyboard and now there's this mushy sound as I type. |
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I know how to push your buttons Meho dear boy. Next time I'll get my Foucault leather trousers out. |
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meho: yeah .. abusing power is definetly very easy - i don't know .. it's civilisation that makes us hold back, but at the same time it's civilisation that allows us to abuse power? just been doing a bit of phil of bio recently (esp. concerning an interactionist view of inheritance) .. that's sort of where i'm coming from. ? mmmhh jonesy: if you're thinking bout reading freud you might consider reading some adler .. depends how psychological you want to get tho .. freud is very intriuging tho |
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oooh, Jonesy you're making me hard again, bitch. Korben: That's the paradox with civilisation/ comunities. Would be nice to have a culture that would develop strong social mechanisms without developing hierarchies... But I'm wetdreaming here... |
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:) .. that's what i was getting at. I'll be doing 20th century french philosophy next semester, so far i've only dabbled in it .. should be good. fucken rate continental philosophy. i'm so dig the paradoxical - undermining nature of everything .. but can be a bit of a head screw at times .. |
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yea, itza hedskrew all over, mit (tryin to get the nu zeland accent). Paradoxes also depend on the distance you look at them. Someone would say that community equals hierarchy and would see no paradox in this. Life is so difficult... |
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^i'm so dig = i so dig .. i'm really intrigued with the whole concept of knowledge etc. (as i think i sort of mentioned previously) - at this stage in my life this seems to precipitate a lot of my thought and argumentation/pondering - a slight aside .. tho i don't want to ruin this thread too much - i take it you two are somewhat well versed in the ninja tune catalog. i have a few releases meself, but seem to have developed this craving for something that fits kinda in that sort of category. any suggestions? i'll get dj shadows nu album .. and have a listen to herbalizers new album 2morra in the store, and possibly to dj krush's/zen .. dj food & dk ?? |
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hehe .. nu zullund (rough phonetic pronunciation) - [not to be confused with the ostraaailian accent :)] .. it sucks while you're actually in the head screw so to speak .. but i find it sort of pacifies one in day to day life which is quite a nice effect. |
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Have you got the Xen Cuts triple CD? Its a must have. I think Meho would agree that Amon Tobin is well worth checking out. I keep meaning to get the Irresistable Force album. Do you have the K & D sessions? |
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I never got the differences between the New Zealand and Aussie accents. Is it subtle? I have a friend from New Zealand though I don't see him much anymore. I'm supposed to be godfather to his daughter. I did explain that I didn't believe in God to which he replied: 'no worries mate'. Quite. |
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Yeah .. i've got Bricolage/Permutations/Supermodified .. very enjoyable .. and yeah.. was heavily into K&D two years ago (or so?) .. also nice don't have xen cuts - actually inspected the box the other week - very impressive (are they that cd only, or is it a compilation of tracks that can be found on original cds?) i don't know . . ive temporarily od'ed on idm :) |
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Uhm, yes, knowledge and so on... So much about it... Ninja Tune issue now: Dj Food & DK is excellent, though it's a mix, mind you. But one of the best hip-hop mixes you'll hear. And saying it's a hip-hop mix doesn't do it justice as it has everything from african folk to industrial dub hop in it. Zen is pretty good, but my fave Krushe's album is Milight. These two albums after Milight are good but Milight is where it started. It's not on Ninja Tune, it's on Sound Traveller, as I recall, try and track it down for some dreamy beatscapes and excellent raps. Haven't heard new Herbalizer yet but my mates tell me it's the same as the previous one. My recommendations off Ninja Catalogue: Kid Koala (awesome turntable music), Amon Tobin (drill'n'bass meets film music), DJ Vadim (probably the best DJ albums ever made), Cinematic Orchestra (virtual jazz is what I call it) and Coldcut (everything and a political attitude on top). |
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^hehe .. yeah that sums us up pretty much. I guess from a UK/US perspective our accents are very similar, to the point of near indistiguishability .. but to the new zealander and australian the differences are quite marked. depends whereabouts as well tho .. we use a lot of the same lingo, but our 'a's like in mate (generally) don't tend to be so extrovert, if thats a way of putting it. hehe .. |
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Xen Cuts is all unreleased stuff. |
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I've got Kid Koala [very entertaining] Krush's Holonic/Kakusei/Code .. very lovely (sorry .. i'm just looking for some new stuff :/) 'Milight' noted ok thinking of getting dj vadim: reconstruced (98cd) cinematic orchestra: remixes 98-00 dj food & dk you guys got an opinion on dj q-bert: demolition pumpkin squeeze?? chairs for yer help .. (difficult customer i guess) .. been listening to mr. oizo, and that sort of has put me back in the mood - i've got cold cut's let us play .. and i don't know .. i can't help but feel it a dissapointing release compared to some of the other ninja stuff i've heard (got some dj food jst incase) .. |
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Sorry. I still know loads of people who still haven't got the K & D sessions. Tosca is also good. I picked up a six track Clifford Gilberto CD the other day which is pretty good. I've got a Kid Koala 12" but I found it a bit gimmicky so haven't bought the album. I hear its really short too. Up, Bustle & Out are good; nice Latin rythmns. Do either of you like Kid Loco? He's not on Ninja but I've never heard anyone mention him on here and wondered whether anyone else digs his stuff. |
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.. shoulda made that a more specific q. sos :/ ^meho: "Uhm, yes, knowledge and so on... So much about it.." and so little :) |
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I've got Kid Loco, actually went to two of his sets here in lil ol nu zullund .. not bad .. sort of gone off it a bit, his grand love story is a fucken wicked album - tho a little sweet for my liking at the mo .. similar with his jesus 12" (again very lovely music) .. Yeah got tosca .. dunno .. again, was well into that just prior to suzuki's release, but is all that stuff is a bit too loungy for my current wants and needs :) |
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Korben: Let us play is very special for me and I'm sorry it didn't work for you... Jonesy is right about Up, Bustle & Out, I can't believe I forgot about them. DJ Vadim: fuck that album, that's remixes and, good as it is, you'd be better off getting LIfe on the other side CinOrchestra: Remixes is OK, but it's them remixing other people's stuff. Get "Motion" instead and the new one will be out on monday and it's even better than "Motion", highly recommended. Q-bert: sorry, the only one I have is that wavetwisters one and it's OK but I prefer Mixmaster Mike and DJ Disk... |
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I see. What about Jazzanova? I'm awaiting their album. I've got a fucking great remix by Peter Kruder of Bebel Gilberto's Tanto Tempo. You must get this. Its a bit different to K & D's usual sound. Its class. |
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jonesy: u got peace orchestra? whats jazzanova like - ive only got them doing a remix of 4hero's "we who are not as others." Which is nice, but as i don't know the original track, i can't really judge how they approach music? meho: life on the other side? cool .. i got no idea about dj vadim, advice is much appreciated. same with cinOrchestra Re: cold cut, don't get me wrong, there are some cracker tunes on there, which could quite easily eclipse any song on ninja tune (ok, might be a slight exaggeration) .. but then there are other tracks .. like noah's ark which sort of make me wonder .. dunno .. might give it another listen. |
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Ahh, OK, no problems, I only very highly appreciate the diversity of Let us Play..... Also Check out London Funk Allstars "Astro zombies..." for some oldschool(ish) instrumental hip-hop. Ahh, those were the days... |
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cheers/chairs boss .. :) |
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I thought Xen Cuts was pretty good but there's a lot of shit on cd2 (and others) |
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I've got a double 12" of remixes of Peace Orchestra. I also have Dark Drums? That's class. OH NO. Moby's new single is on the radio. How bad is this? NOOOOOOOO. Jazzanova are great. They have a few EPs. There's a track called Alle Der Kosmonauten which is class. Their album is out soon. They're jazzy. I think they're calling it 'broken beat' these days. |
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shit eh? mmhh.. i don't think i will be getting it in a hurry as its fairly pricy, but i'll definetly have a listen prior |
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I bought it used on the offchance, it got me into Ninja |
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oh btw, I love the cuba-esque music on cd at the start, its wicked |
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"broken beat" sounds nice. . i'm just craving the ninja break beat type thing .. ? .. remixes of peace orchestra? the remixing done by kruder, or others or both? mmhh... dark drums ? is that an ep? there's some jazzanova cd i see around the place .. um .. cardboard cover with green writing and red (the title?) ? |
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That brown covered album is of remixes they've done. That Peace Orchestra is something Drums. I've got it on a compilation. The remixes are by Trainer Truby and more. Can't recall the title at this minute. It has a naked couple on the cover, crouching in a pond. |
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well .. i'm off beddy bye's :) cheers for the advice/conversations .. oh and jonesy, nice to see that ol' marx is looking at things a lil different :) .. [just point of interest: he writes screeds and screeds of volumes .. but very little does he actually go over how communism would work and what exactly it would entail .. most of that was included in his very early work ? .. but i'm not meaning to hurt a healing wound hehe ..] i'll check them albumz .. oh and meho, cheers for them glitch tips a while back .. muchos gracias !! |
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^ isn't that shining? not that i have that .. anyway .. |
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