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 (nobody)...and 364 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2613462 Today 5 Topics 127501 |
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so I'd expect other people not to judge me... Let people believe what they want, why make fun of them? I don't know, this whole world ticks me off so much... this world is so stupid, I hate it... also, saying that a whole RELIGION is hyocritical is a pretty big stereotype... maybe the people you've encountered from that religion have been hypocrites, but don't judge the whole religion because of that... there's no need of that, and it's just stupid... |
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I agree. I never saw the point in arguing about religion. However I do see the point in learning about it. That's it from me. I feel the same way as Funkmaster. |
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you're very right funkmaster. it is easy to dismiss religion, however it is so vast. maybe it is something to do with being scared of the unknown... |
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like I've encountered plenty of hypocrites in my life of going to church and all that, but I've encountered plenty of genuine people as well... people who were genuinly nice, and just great people... unfortunately, people on the outside looking in only notice, or remember anyways, the hypocritical people... |
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that's the way of the world, i guess. ppl tend to only remember the bad sides of other ppl when you ask them. |
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I'm not even a Christian anymore really... I mean I believe in God and the bible and stuff... I guess I'm in my rebeling phase... :) but I just get so ticked off when people are made fun for their beliefs, and the Christian religion has taken it's fair share of ridicule... |
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Yea That's why I dont go to Church where I live. The old vicar insulted Prince Charles so He didnt go either. (he lives near me) They were terrible there before but we have a new Vicar now. I'll have to go again and see if she's normal! LOL |
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sure, i agree with you funkmaster. even though i judged all religions with my last post, i'm not saying there's something wrong in believing them... |
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What Gonzola said about his feelings regarding nature are at the crux of what we're talking about. Humans have used religion to explain our relationship to the world, both nature and each other. Science gradually replaced religion as a logical explanation of the world as scientific research developed and progressed. What religion offers now is two-fold. Firstly it offers a means of control to an elite at the top of society. If pople can place their hopes in a higher being then the power that they have is not realised. Very good for the ruling class. Also if you can go to heaven, why try and change your current circumstances? Secondly it offers comfort to the vast majority of people who's lives are controlled by others (employers etc) and have little freedom. People seek solace from a harsh world in many ways; some choose religion, others choose drugs. At the end of the day its a product of history, specific to different societies. Check Max Weber's writings to understand the Protestant work ethic and the development of capitalism. I'll shut up now. |
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the link between poltics and religion is undeniable. They are bed fellows as far as I am concerned. |
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Oh yeah. I meant to say that because of the society we live in we are alienated from nature. We produce for profit and not for the production of human needs themselves. |
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"profit" perhaps. Could this be a vestige of our primal need to 'store' for the unforeseable future? |
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I think the system is driven for the accumulation of capital by a few. Its more than the greed of the few as it has developed into a logic. To regain our relationship to both nature and each other, unmarred by alienation and exploitation we need a society based on production for need - socialism. If we don't we'll see many more 9/11's. |
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Are there any true socialist states today? If not which ones are the closest? |
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well, my opinions are based on experiance-i was dragged to church every sunday until i was old enough to decide that i didnt want to go anymore-i have even read the bible, albeit a while back. i just dont agree with areas in the bible, the obvious one i guess being the adam and eve story vs evolution. therefore i cannot say i believe in the bible. i just cant buy it. |
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I agree Jonesy, would that it were possible. The trouble is people are not equal. This is not only through nuture but nature too. |
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then again there are other faiths that i know nothing about....one that i do find a connection with however is buddism. |
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There are none. The nearest thing was the Soviets in Russia. But by the 1920s they had fallen into the control of a beauracracy, eventually leading to the dictatorship of Stalin. There's always hope for true worker's democracy. Democratic worker's organisations were set up in Spain during the Civil War of 1936, in Eastern Europe to fight against communism and many more that I can't remeber the specifics of. |
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what are you studying jonesy?-just out of interest... |
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Religion and God are not the same thing, really. Riboflavin and Religion are though. Joey |
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Has anyone ever heard of the Baha'i faith? If so, what are your observations, just out of curiosity. |
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This thread is funny. |
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If you take the example of the self-organisation of these anti-capitalist groups that are springing up then you can see equality on a micro scale. I don't see why this could not happen on a societal level if we wrestled power from the leite governments of the world. If not we're fucked. |
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I did study sociology but all this is from my own reading. I'm politcally active and read when I can about the stuff I've just been spouting. I know its not fashionable but I'm a Marxist. I would align myself with the anti-capitalists but would say I have an idea of what I want in place of capitalism. |
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I don't know whether to thank you or not jonesy but I shall be doing a little reading my self over the next few weeks. I have had plans to start a new sect of the pragmatists. Does anyone else want to contibute to this new thesis? |
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Excuse my ignorance but what are the pragmatists? What did you think of Genoa? |
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Pragmatists are those who test concepts to see their practical resualts. Although the term gets thrown around incorrectly alot by people who just got their new 'word a day calander' in the mail. |
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no jonesy mate, wasnt implying you were spoutin-just that you seem well read on such things-that was all... |
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they are us. If you want it that is. A new school of thought. We can better what has gone before. We have history on our side. We are priveledged with knowledge that Marx never knew. It is time for change. As an archaeologist/historian I condemn the distruction of heritage. Whether through the actions of anarchists or the authorities. Overall I do not believe it achieved anything. |
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Ken: no, I was spoutin. I get carried away. Quernstone: it was only a minority that did any damage. The vast majority were there to protest against capitalism. |
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I'm going home to play some basketball. C u next week kids. Be good. |
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I'm off too. Time to eat more cheese! |
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Capitalism seems most suited to human nature (greed) therefore most likely to succeed. |
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Islam is good alas. If you say that you have allah's interests in heart, then you can have a load of people who will die for you. Hitler in WW2 was going to make a load of people islamic so they would fight with no fear. |
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I never heard that Darth manchu, do you have a reference? |
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Some TV program. I saw a load of german soldier bowing down to pray islamic stylee. I think it was scrapped because people werent big fans of islamic people then. Or something. I dont know. |
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I agree with you Jonesy when you said "Science gradually replaced religion as a logical explanation of the world as scientific research developed and progressed." So many arguments worldwide are formed over religous matters, so I think maybe we should of all just stuck to answering this topic with a simple 'yes' or 'no' . . instead of saying who is wrong and who is right! |
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... |
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I do belive in god. my father is a religions teacher, and he brought me up with an objective vision of religion. he doesnt care what i "am". If i didnt believe in god, i would kill myself. if the world was only black and white and had an end, i would kill myself. seriusly! and i´m a happy guy right now, but thats because i live my life in the belief that it has some kind of purpouse. |
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I'd like to believe in God, it would put some more meaning into my life, I guess. But at this point, I just don't know what to think or believe. And the way religion has been shoved down my throat by my pretty religious family is a bit of a turn off. |
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i believe in common sense and the laws of nature |
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That sounds good to me! |
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funkmaster: i didn't just pull my opinions out of thin air i used to be religious, i used to go to church, in fact, my mother is a minister in the united church i know a lot more about religion than most religious people i know im not trying to show off or anything.. its not even that i know SO much or anything.. its that most religious people i know dont know much about what they are following they seem to make a lot of it up for themselves, whatever they want to hear which supports my argument that religion just comforts you and u can use it to justify ur actions btw: just cus the universe seems "organised"... now does that somehow prove that there is a god? we recognise these patterns for ourselves.. and we dont even know what makes them work we dont know what makes gravity work... but we will probably find some underlying rule some day all the patterns and rules we know (ie: water freezing at 0 degrees) are actually just expressions of underlying patterns (ie: the way watter molecules organise themselves) and even that is an expression of even more basic laws (ie: behavior of subatomic laws) no law/rule/pattern in the universe is just self evident just cus we cant understand the underlying laws that govern the universe does not somehow prove that there MUST be a god controling it all... |
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It was always funny in high school arguing with fundamentalist Christians and disproving their arguments by science AND the bible. What really pisses me off is these people who go round claiming what they say is the word of God, then don't have a clue about the bible. Ophecks, like I said, most people in strict religious families are put off by the negative experiances to it as a child. Thankfully it wasn't pushed on me too much so it was something I chose to investigate as I got older. |
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yes i do, i think every creation must have had a creator |
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i don't think there is such a thing as a law of nature/underlying law that governs the universe fundamentally - its a handy concept - but it all is just a framework that tries to interpret the "real" world. the grip gets tighter and tighter ... but to me it is fundamentally flawed, as it treats nature as an absolute / as this is the nature of such laws - i have doubts about such a nature of things. they are fundamentally arbitrary - nonetheless useful! having said such, discoveries such as quantumn mechanics and godel's theory of incompleteness seem refreshing concepts that suggest a more subjective/fluid/dynamic - not absolute universe ... |
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ceri cj - it is quite intriguing when considering that there are apparently ca. 120 000 contradictions WITHIN the bible .. although, i don't think that you can disprove a belief in god - just as the belief in science seems to have got a hold of the human conscience. Nietzsche back in his day predicted/foresaw this! "Thus spake zarathustra - I killed science ... " :) |
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i think the underlying answer to the universe is salt! which is needed especially when considering the above statement :) |
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Yes indeed, pillars of salt are bibical... :) |
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200 posts!! *buys meself another beer* |
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