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 Now online (1)belb ...and 178 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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lol mulitplied by infinity |
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The point of entry is where the public are hooked, making its place pretty important. And I wouldn't call Moby a puppet as he deliberately whored his 'music' to the highest bidders, thereby helping in the hook. I understand that many people don't give a fuck about this issue, as evidenced in previous XLT threads on this subject. Money isn't infinite - one man's wealth contributes to another's poverty. |
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Money isn't infinite - one man's wealth contributes to another's poverty. Money is an abstraction representing value, not a substance that gets pumped out of the abdomens of the working classes. If you write a book, grow a field of carrots or discover a way to turn cellulose into cheap fuel, you've created value-wealth-money. |
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the problem with money is that while the amount of the value it is supposed to represent may very well stay constant, the amount of money will fluctuate, bringing inflation and deflation or whatever those two things are called in english: if one money was one value, and no more, no less, it could quite possibly work out a whole lot better, but then you could ask yourself why have money instead of the valuables? |
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The millions being pumped into Moby's bank account, or whoever the rent-a-celebrity is that week, is money that could have been used in other ways: such as 01:: setting up social programmes 02:: paying the workforce a better wage, thereby beginning to break the huge gap between rich and poor and instigate a balance between the two. There's a difference between earning money by hard work and being given distorted sums of money by a corporation to use your 'reputation' and 'selling-value' to enhance the image of their products. The responsibility is not only with the corporations, but with the 'celebrities' who take the money, money created by the workforce, being channelled away from the workforce who are the ones who toil 8 or 9 hours per day, 5 or 6 days per week, for 49 or 50 weeks per year. |
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Nobody's forced to buy his bloody records. |
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True - although, I was referring to his music on advertisements: Which I believe also contributed to the high volume of sales for Play, in a cyclical manner. So, not only did he get paid for having his garbage in advertisements, but he also gained free advertising for his music. Repetition is Truth seems to be some sort of modern western mantra. Some might call that 'enterprise' and commend him for it, I call it cynically distasteful; but hey, I'm sure I'm just some Commie Homo for siding with the workers and not the fat-cats and self-serving smugfucks who hold the wealth and the control. |
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I can see your point, but if you were offered lots of money for your music to be shoved on adverts millions of people would see, would you really refuse? |
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But I doubt he went round large corporations saying "Hey guys, chill out, why not play my music on your adverts?" It was probably the licensing arm of the record company. To make.. money. Pop music is a commodity. We know this. Take solace in the fact that Moby gets pissed off that people always give him tea because of his stupid fucking vegan cake shop. |
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Yes. I have principles. Old-fashioned and terribly uncool, I know, but hey, that's me. I like to think I have some integrity. I've been asked that question more than once on Xltronic over the years btw. And no-one ever believes me! |
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Actually, if I remember rightly, he did actively pimp his music to the corporations. I take solace in the fact that he's a soulless prick who is derided by those who see through his fake hippie bullshit. |
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Actually, I read a rather interesting article on something that can be seen as related to this.. A professor, I can't remember exactly what of, but it was economy-related, was taking issue with modern economical education. The thing is that one of the basic assumptions of capitalism and thus also education in management and economy, is that man is essentially an egotistical animal. This "myth" is somehow kept alive through the fact that all freshly educated economists are taught both strategies and theories based partly upon this assumption. This is why capitalism at times seems like the antagonist to the welfare state: "to each his own; you'd do the same if you could!!!" Now, there is little, if nothing, pointing to this "man's essence" being a truth, neither from a biological point of view, nor, more importantly, from a social/psychological point of view. Also, from a philosophical point of view, I'd say claiming essential properties in man is what you do when you're fourteen years old and you've been watching too many animés; it is foolish. However, it is quite possible, and also very likely, that since our society is permeated by capitalist thinking, we are also influenced by this way of thinking. Thus, capitalism is self-fulfilling: what it predicts of man is an influence on man, making man egotistical without there being any sort of necessary connection between being a man and being egotistical. This becomes more evident if you look at, as I said, fourteen year olds. Very rarely do you find fourteen year olds who have developed a good enough self-awareness to know that they aren't determined to be merely a thing, and they're also very gullible, so they believe what you tell them. I remember the "everything you do is egotistical, even when you do something for someone else you do it so that you yourself can feel good!" argument all to well from that time (strangely enough, most of the time it was performed by girls). |
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haha, I forgot to explicitly relate it to your post: people don't believe you because they believe capitalism and the idea that man is egotistical, so they believe you'd do what's best for yourself in all situations; those few self-sacrificing people are exceptions to the general rule, some sort of genetic disorder. |
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I see it as logical not to be self-serving: for mankind to progress, or even to survive beyond the next hundred years, what is need is not a system of enslavement and control but a system of co-operation and brotherhood (excuse the awful connotations related to that word). The way we are going, there won't be much left in a couple of generations' time. I know that I myself try to help other people whenever I can, and to promote this attitude within my workplace. And the atmosphere and efficiency levels are always higher when we are co-operating & the rapport and friendliness is there. It's when the occasional prick thinks only of themselves and what they want that things fall apart and I need to step in. |
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his mom ate him, thats what the FUCK happened to him! |
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... |
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That's great. Now do the one about the caveman who invented property by putting up the first fence. |
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He probably won't since property lawyers weren't about in caveman times. |
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You're always going to have inequality in a free society. The alternative is a social order so rigid that the government is essentially playing whack-a-mole with anyone who gets ahead and dares to poke their head out of the hidey hole. (I'm not saying there shouldn't be a progressive tax scheme and social programs, medicare, good public education, forcing accountability for environmental damage and so on) (an aside: have you ever read The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. LeGuin?) |
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A property laywer is a caveman with a club so big it comprises all of society. |
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I don't believe the alternative to one extreme is the other extreme. Like I said, we either jump off the doomed path we're treading as a species through co-operation & understanding & tolerance & enlightenment, or we plunge into the eternal darkness and play pat-a-cake with the dinosaurs. btw, I liked your gag about the caveman property lawyer :D |
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"Gentlemen, the choice is clear..." *chomps cigar, leans over board room table* "...either we wallow in false dichotomies, or we stop using them FOREVER." |
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you should have seen they way EVOL reacted when i called him a fag, he got so pissed off, i think hes got gay blood in him. |
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It is actually quite sad, what happened with Moby. I don't like his old albums that much, but they did have a certain energy, a certain passion. I can't believe the man we see today was once responsible for "Animal Rights". |
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concurred |
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Thus, capitalism is self-fulfilling: what it predicts of man is an influence on man, making man egotistical without there being any sort of necessary connection between being a man and being egotistical. This becomes more evident if you look at, as I said, fourteen year olds. Very rarely do you find fourteen year olds who have developed a good enough self-awareness to know that they aren't determined to be merely a thing, and they're also very gullible, so they believe what you tell them. Although I agree on capitalism being self-fulfilling, to a certain extent, I disagree on the example of egotistical 14 year olds. At that age people aren't fully developed yet. Especially emotionally. With their egotistical tendencies as a consequence. It'd be interesting to compare 14 year olds from non-capitalistic societies. But even if they are less egotistical than their capitalistic counter parts, the conclusion that capitalism is to blame is very crude. Perhaps people develop differently in a capitalistic society. Like it takes more time to become an adult, for instance. That -possible- fact that capitalistic 14 year olds are more egotistical than their non-capitalistic counter parts, doesn't imply that adults of both societies show the same differences. Regardless of the above, my point would be that egocentricity is a part of childhood in all societies. And in some societies children can develop faster in this aspect than in others. It would be an interesting to find a way to measure egocentricity and to compare different societies. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been done a long time ago. If you happen to know some, I'd like to hear. |
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ok, got carried away there but if you happen to know some PAPERS, i'd love to hear |
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oh, I weren't saying 14year olds were egotistical, I just remember those years as the period in which people performed the argument that even acts of self-sacrifice or kindness was somehow motivated by egoism, by the egoistical desire to feel happy or something. This is precisely because they aren't fully developed; they aren't aware of the fact that they aren't essentially egoists. Oh! I just found out there's a difference between the word egoistical and egotistical! I just thought english people spelled egoistical egotistical, but there's a fine difference there.. I'll have to look into how one properly applies these words. |
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hey theo. |
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apparently he's the headliner in the main room... |
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That's one of the most impressive thread derailments I've seen in a long time, Drunken Mastah/Fleetmouse/Marlowe. |
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while you were all discussion shit here, theo himself has been hoarding the board behind yer backs and took your bones |
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What the fuck does that mean? |
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