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 (nobody)...and 441 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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"You do know that verisimilitude" that should have read. |
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haha yes OK. Keep up the meds oh enlightened one. |
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that was rude, haphazard, definitely not smart, ignorant, and immature. |
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I didn't know it was childish to speak the truth. sorry |
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I love how people tend to mock Christian/Catholic Beliefs stating that there are loop holes and "its this big fairy tale". Fact is there has never been a solid argument to disprove these beliefs. Not in the thousands of years it has been around. Many many athiests have tried. Its never happened. So please instead of posting such sillyness here go and prove it to the world. You'd surely shut billions of people the fuck up as the media would jump all over your story. |
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I also can't prove that there isn't a race of intelligent tea-kettles orbiting Uranus. There could very well be. We would have to see if there is steam rising from the vicinity of Uranus. There would probably be other pieces of evidence if a tea party were in progress in close proximity to Uranus. But at the present time we are unable to examine Uranus closely enough to know for sure. |
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fleetmouse is correct that the burden of proof rests with those making the claims in the first place. when you're asking people to believe something unlikely that they cannot experience, you must prove that it is real somehow. prove that it is true and everyone would have to believe in it. no one has proved it is true. that applies to any supernatural concept, not just religion. but really, the point is tolerance. have tolerance for other people's beliefs or lack thereof, whether you agree or not. because the bottom line is you'll never persuade them otherwise. |
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True but we have scientists that would have noticed that long ago. Sure people like me and you cant see it but we have these crazy scientists in lab coats with beakers that can see with super ultra mega equipment. Anyone that talks down about any religion is foolish. There is no argument against that. Seriously just disprove it. Thats all. Go find the bones of Jesus Christ and i am sure that will settle the whole resurrection thing. The fact is that no one found them. No one debates that he exsisted. There are many people who understand he was real and such but dont believe he is the Son of God. Thats all well and fine but then where are the bones? I'll i am saying is in my time here i have noticed people argue only against Christianity for the most part. I think its rediculous if you have nothing to back yourself up with besides stubburnness. Ya know what i mean? There should be a logical way of dismissing it with various sources of proof to make legit. I dont think people want to go through the trouble because they simpily dont want to believe. Thats what i have got out of all this in the years that i have been here. Now i might not know everything about everything but this seems pretty simple to me. Dont go against something you dont understand just because you believe it "seems silly" or whatever. This wasnt directed at you BTW it was just a tangent. (now playing: pearl jam- leash......... good song! ) |
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this man is a 'fuckin bastard' |
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is there any person both you and i know? do you know spongebob? |
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Consider before you make such sweeping statements. |
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"On the view of some, theism is not falsifiable, since the existence of God is typically asserted without sufficient conditions to allow a falsifying observation. God being a transcendental being, beyond the realm of the observable, claims about its existence can neither be supported nor undermined by observation." |
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very good. also I might put forward the case of all the pain and suffering caused by organised religion - just looking at christianity, there's the crusades, the slaughter of incas by conquistadores, the troubles up north of where i live.. and the what looks like probable armageddon in the not-so-distant future due to the western world/islam culture conflict. In my opinion, religion's done an awful lot more harm than good. And that's just taking into account physical harm - think about its main function, which is to condition the human brain into thinking and behaving in a certain way. it is the complete opposite of . this is, to me, religion's ugliest, most disgusting characteristic. |
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I'm not going to go super indepth on this. I personally dont care to. I respect your opinion, i have my own beliefs and thats where it stops. I'll view your link later when i am more awake. I found myself daydreaming while reading the second section. This is just one of those things that are going to be argued until the end of time. I do commend you for maintaining supercoolness and not being a dick as some of these topics tend to go to flaming and such! If i still had picture posting abilities i would post a pretty semi nude from the hegre archieves for you ;) *firm handshake* |
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No thats not religion that has done that, that is a warped individuals beliefs. Seriously anyone who uses violence to spread the gospel of Christ is quite in the wrong to say the least. That was a message of peace and such. People love to take their beliefs and violently force it down the throats of others which is too bad. I kind of wish that a large diverse group of people could sit down and have an organised debate with a passion to learn about each other. It would be a hack of a lot better and a boat load more could be accomplished. But unfortunately thats not the kind of world we live in. Gentlemen's debates are the way to go! :) |
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"This is just one of those things that are going to be argued until the end of time." Well exactly. And it's already been argued to death by better minds than ours - which is why it's important to understand what's already been said on the matter. Your posts were skirting around the issues of falsifiability and the burden of proof which is why I posted that link and forgot to post this one on . In the page on fallacies you will find just about every argumentative tactic that is used in virtually every flamewar I've ever read, and why it's wrong. These are fallacies that are committed by BOTH SIDES of the theism/atheism debate. Anyhoo I understand that your posts are motivated by a noble instinct to defend diversity and tolerance - how very canadian of you! - and that's cool. |
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yes, what you say there is correct. some of the teachings of christ were of peace and i find those admirable, personally. but absolute power corrupts absolutely. people are to blame for the misuse of power, of course. but the reason so many people dislike these religions is that they are inherently corruptable. ever since the rise of christianity as a mainstream cultural movement, there has been the exerting of the church's will over the masses. the power of god is the ultimate power, and they used this concept to strike fear and wield ultimate power over the people. they introduced all these restrictions on society (eg - social, sexual, etc) that weren't there before christianity. they said convert or die during crusades; there was no end to the money-gouging and suffering that the church caused back then. the point is that all religions are ideal vehicles for control and oppression. none of the people being oppressed even realize they are being oppressed. there has always been this message that the christians are being victimized and cast out. why would they be? probably because they like to invade other cultures and force the indigenous people to accept their way of life. it's been happening since the start and it happens right now. i saw on the 700 club the other day a show about christians who felt they had to move to the midwest because they felt the "liberal" cities treated them without respect. apparently there was too many of "those people" there. what people? liberals, foreigners, jews, muslims, what? anyone who doesn't like being preached to? my point is that non-theists don't generally go around saying change your life and join our club or face eternal torment. every religion does in one way or another. they are all systems of oppression. |
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and that is not to say that i condemn all christians based on what some of them believe! i do not. believe whatever you like - that's the point of religious freedom. that post was about the most public christian figures like robertson who insist that they are fighting a culture war and specifically encourage christians to have lots of kids to rise to political power in the future. i'm not exaggerating - that's what he said. |
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everyone's entitled to their beliefs. i never agreed with my parent's religion, but I wouldn't dream of knocking it. they were seventh day advent hoppists. they believed that every sunday should be spent hopping. they would hop to church, hop through the service, then hop back home again. you see, they took the Bible literally. adam and eve, the snake and the apple - took it word for word. unfortunately their version had a misprint. it was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says, "faith, hop, and charity, and the greatest of these is hop." so that's what they did, every seventh day. i tell you, sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. hopping around the table serving soup... we all had to wear sou'esters and asbestos underpants. |
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I apologize for skirting around the issues. I will read your links more through in the days to come to hopefully give a more adequite answer. I myself am still learning. I grew up Catholic... baptized and went through conformation and all that. I feel that in those years i really got nothing out of it. I did learn alot of old testiment stories. Thats cool and all but it really never touched on alot of things. Around the age of 19 i got more interested in Baptists and why they were always going "ape tit" at churches and that led me to investigate born again christians. I wondered what made them different and why are there so many denominations. Up to this point i am still studying but i feel as though the Born Again Christians have the best interpretation of the bible. They focus alot on the message of salvation and what it means and how it works. On the other hand i notice Catholics tend to put alot of importance on various saints and Mary the Virgin mother. Often they pray directly to these saints. My mother is Catholic and at one point gave me a packet of prayers to a certain saint that was supposed to help the job situation (there are saints and traditions for just about everything i learned). I told her that i felt that was idolotry. Nowhere in the bible does it tell you to pray to either the Saints and/or the Virgin Mother. Its just not there. Catholics seem far from the original teachings. I consider myself a generic Christian. I believe what the Bible says. I believe that Chrst died for my sins. I believe that is my only way into heaven. Why do i believe this? Because if i am to believe the word of God i should take it as is and not change it to fit my needs. Far too many Christians: 1: Change/misquote scripture out of context to fit thier daily lives 2: Force Christanity down the throats of others. That makes Christians in general look bad. (running out of room... to be continued) |
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(continued from above) Those two things are horrible. Jesus never ever forced his opinions on people. He never protested outside of porn shops. He simply debated and talked with people. In the scripture he is a young boy debating with the elders at the temple. The most important thing here is that he doesnt force viewpoints but instead lets a disbeliever continue once they have heard the message and rejected it. To be Christ like is to try and follow his example. Thats technically impossible but its a good thing to try. I'd rather be having a debate like this then being one of those militant Christian pricks (you know what i mean). I've encountered many of those and it really turned me off to the Gospel for quite sometime. I believe that i am OK not going to church. Why because i think that learning on my own is better than some every sunday routine that means nothing and seems forced. I believe that tithing is not necessary. You can do it if you would like to support a local chruch or perhaps a ministry that you believe in but it isnt really required. I believe in hearing people out and never being a prick to them based on their beliefs. I would like to hear what everyone has to say and i will not judge you on it. Why because who am i that i should judge people? I justa panda :D I think this would be an adequate response to what you had posted. I hope i didnt go to far off on a tangent. :) -------------------------------- Thanks for refering to me as canadian. That is quite the compliment as i have noticed that many many Americans are quite intolerant and overly materialistic and over patriotic. :) |
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Power is one of the worst things ever. People dont know how to control themselves or do what is right for others. Its a shame that people use the teachings of religion to strike fear into others. Thats one of the most disgusting things ever to me. At that point you are trying in essence to stop people from having individual thought. On of the points of creation and the Bible is that we have a choice. There should be no need. Christ died for our sins and if we choose to accept that then yay us! There is absolutely no need to act dominant or force someone to believe something. At that point you take away their basic right to think for themselves and indivual thought at that point is banished from exsistance. Its too bad things are like that. I have heard alot of what Pat Roberson has had to say on many issues. I do commend certain stances he takes but at the same time he is out of control. A culture war is a pretty crummy way to put that. Sure society isnt perfect but by saying "culture war" you are seperating two different groups of people. I am assuming that he put Christians on one side and everyone else on the other correct? If so thats a load of crap on his part. We should all work together as a functioning society instead of seperating each other due to beliefs. Making that seperation makes as much sense as seperating people of color. It doesnt make sense and it is counter productive. |
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very well said, vp. your attitude is very good, i think. i think no matter what your background, people are all basically the same. no one is better or more important than anyone else. all our lives are of equal merit, and therefore we should all respect each other's right to live as human beings. all we need to do is just at least tolerate each other. we're all in the same boat, let's just live and let live... etc. and yes, that is what robertson was talking about exactly. the problem is that the world is full of pat robertsons who are in positions of power, and the few in power control the majority (the masses) in different mediums. this goes hand in hand with religion and government, and those two ideas will be with humanity for as long as there are humans on the planet. |
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i disagree everyone is equal. i believe in the uberman, i think some people have much more to give to society, a select few who are the drive behind the development of the human race as a species. |
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Thanks Chris! That is why although the Pope is dying i dont feel bad. This man did his duty for 26 years and is 84 years of age. His health is lacking and he deserves to go where he believes he is going. The problem with Robertson (with all due respect) is that while many of the things he says are helpful and true he has these little ideas as we are discussing that other people will take "as gospel" and go with it because he is influential. I'd like to ask him where in the Bible it says that we should "go to war" like you refered to. I understand the spreading of the gospel but it should be done in a neat and fair fashion as we are conducting here. |
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I thought we agreed not to speak of these things publicly. |
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it's a double bluff. always works. you tell the truth nowadays and it confuses people. :) |
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the text! the text! this is one of those threads that it is impossible to get into once they've passed 50 posts. there should be a "short version" or something... could anyone who've followed it through sum it up?! |
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sadist called everyone who made pope jokes a "fuckin bastard". then we all explained he should lighten up. then some people argued about christianity. then it happened again. then some of us agreed to disagree and it was nice. then earthleakage started the master race and everyone has been scrambling to join up - heil earthleakage! |
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I view anyone that is working as important to society. Truck drivers deliver goods that we need. Produce, fuel and such. Doctors keep us healthy for the most part ;) The sanitation department makes sure our garbage and waste gets to its desired location Even Musicians and entertainers provide a time for us to unwind and relax. Sometimes providing various emotions (comedians make us laugh and so on) I think that everyone has an important part in keeping society running and keeping it normal. By no means is anything perfect but i think that we are all various sized pieces of a puzzle. While doctors are very important, so are heating and airconditioning technicians. They are just important on various levels. Thats where the "different sized puzzle pieces" came in. |
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some people have a greater capacity to do a more varied and more skillful job ergo they are more important. anybody can drive a truck, not everybody can be a doctor. therefore a doctor has more value than a truck driver because the skill which is required to become a doctor is 1000x more sparse, just as gold has a higher monetary value than iron because the quantity and/or usefulness of the metal is in a much a shorter supply. |
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Yes i will agree with that to a certain degree. Doctors are very valuable which is why i made that compairison to the puzzle. They are bigger pieces because they are more productive and valuable but we dont want everyone being doctors. Its great that we have various people in various different positions. Someone needs to be a crime scene cleaner but not everyone wants to clean up blood,guts,brains and bodies. There is something out there for everyone. We are all cut out for different things no matter what people deem more valuable. Firefighters are very important. Not everyone can or would want to go into a burning building to battle a blaze. |
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great! thanks! now: what you've all been waiting for: MY opinion. laughing at the pope/schaivo: it's probably just because of the media-circus.. people get saturated (I know I was sick of the schiavo-case after two days) and humour is the way to relieve such tension. to all the people who - no doubt - have argued that christianity/religion is a load of bollox, quiet down in the back. have you ever seen an atom or air? Or the inside of your head for that matter... nothing has been proven in the favor of science either. science is just another religion, although a godless one, but such religions have existed. the master race... well.. there are no things pointing to the fact that there is a master race... culture and environment shape you more than your dna. conclusion: AWIHESGDV APIRDHG AIWEGR A)¤U( TAGWRJG)¤ AJRW)F W¤JF )¤W F)¤#WPF JQAP KDSFMAKSDF AV NASKDLV Jason Shope. |
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hmmm... read the thread, especially fleetmouse. ps - Jason Shope. |
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yes, I am aware of the points made by mr fleetmouse (though I hadn't read what he said), which is the reason I said that "nothing has been proven in the favor of science either" instead of "you can't disprove religion." |
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janitors are janitors out of choice? i think not! they have no choice over the matter. lowly paid unskilled jobs are filled by people with no special skills. they work as janitors because they need the money. and just to make something clear, i never mentioned a master race or even suggested it. |
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Actually where i live a custodian job can actually end up paying a decent amount of money. I suppose if you can deal with cleaning up that kind of mess and it doesnt bug you then its no big deal. Its not all plugged toilets and vomit. Alot of it is light cleaning and such. It most likely wouldnt be a bad idea if it was for a big corperation as you could make around $11-17/hr which would be good for a college student or that special convict straight out of the pen. :) |
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I know (two) people who've chosen to work as janitors/cleaning ladies, and they both enjoy it. |
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have you ever seen an atom or air? Or the inside of your head for that matter... nothing has been proven in the favor of science either. science is just another religion, although a godless one, but such religions have existed. Hahahaha! Excellent. You're hitting all the bases. Now do the one about how science can't explain the smiles of children or a beautiful sunset. XD |
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Bonus points if you can work in something about pyramids. |
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Oi gwely person! Don't you think the problem could be the human race atm and not the religions? Sure most wars etc are somhow religious, but i believe people (including me) are pretty dumb and the way we interpret things is the cause most problems. |
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Again, my typing skills are that of an 8 year old. I shall always read myself again before posting now, i'm just not very good. |
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yes, I am aware of your condition, but just concentrate for a second, will you? |
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what I meant to say was: reply instead of just pretending to ridicule what I said. |
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I'm new here. What did you say? |
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"all those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain" [Roy Batty, Nexus 6] |
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Although science can actually explain the why's and what's of a beautiful sunset.... On the other hand i see where Drunken Mastah is going and i agree. The thing i this "science -vs- faith" thing is really tedious, and is usually just BANG OUT OF ORDER! |
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That was a reply to fleetmouse. Again i didn't read myself. I also realise i don't totally agree with Drunken M, but i really do see the point. |
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There's nothing to argue with faith because it's all made up bullshit. Spirituality, God, souls. bull feces. ignorance. Ignorance or fear of death I should say. Either one. Still, hoping for something doesn't make it true. |
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