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 Now online (2)Hyperflake recycle ...and 491 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Hey, sorry to just leap in like this, but here goes anyway. And christ, this is long. Recently I've been having a bit of a crisis of 7\ confidence, and have been thinking... what, actually has Aphex ever done that is new? He is always heralded as one of the most innovative musicians on the planet, but then... everything I can think of that he's done has pretty much been done before... His sound experiments, as he admits, owe much to Xenakis and Stockhausen - his SAWII atmospheres to Ligeti and Eno - his piano pieces to Satie and Cage - his Inyourface money-making lovehatethesystem crassness - didn't the KLF do that ages ago far more succesfully and elaborately? True enough he has brought the 'avant-garde' into the mainstream - but objectively, does he cut it? I'm NOT Aphex bashing here, I'm just worrying (worrying's the wrong word here, but hey) that maybe we've just been taken in... Help me. |
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Providing he releases good music I don't care what other people think about him, how innovative he is, or whether the media like him or not. The fact he releases quality sounds (usually) is all that really matters. |
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he just goes with the style thats currently succesfull, and takes it over the top to produce something nice so it might not be original, i still have lots of respect for the man, how he makes great tunes in every genre (well exept rap eh ;) and stuff blabla you get the idea |
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This place is good. I ask a question, I get instant answers. Answers which satisfy. I guess journalists are the ones more to blame than anyone for the Aphex myth- but then no-one ever liked them anyway, no? |
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Surely the RDJ-album was very innovative and original when it was originally released? Other than that, i can see what you're saying. For some reason he has become one of the more famous faces of electronic music... but he's really not much of a pioneer. Doesn't matter though :-p He's still a genius. |
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I think he's more interesting to listen to than Stockhausen (I've not yet heard Xenakis so...) probably because Stockhausens stuff feel so pointless in a way - they're often just sounds that have been processed. No real sense of rhythm or harmonies. Aphex masters all those areas, especially harmonies, and can turn seemingly incompatible stuff into a wonderful, groovy stew of sounds and melodies. Eno has done some very nice stuff but not really comparable to SAW2 - Apollo or Music for Airports and other ambient albums sound much more "new age" in lack of a better term right now than SAW2. Well...something like that. |
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hey its normal thing that stockhausen created a music with procesed sounds- he just maked what he can to create, and Aphex is making the same , with only one differnce-he has much better equipment for this...you must remember that music is changing all the time , probably for some 20 years someone will tell ya "aphex's stuff feel so pointless in a way" ...this is normal.....and Aphex with his innormal behaviour is just a part of bizness , do you think that without that noise about him you would know his music ? i think not....many people know's him only because those silly events that he's creating |
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with all respect for Aphex , i think that there's many people called as bedroom dj's are creating much better sounds , but they cant release this out...... |
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and by the way...what now Aphex is doing - for me it is no creative at all nowadays, there is much more groups that are making more innovative music...and Aohex is riding on his famous events for me |
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but it's only my point of wiev |
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i think you're a little off the mark -everything owes something to another past form there aren't any eureka moments where someone suddenly does something new. what he does is apply previous ideas to new ways of making music - ie drilland bass and the music box things - same as the ambient works 2 stuff that was it seems a pretty personal take on ambient music - it's also cut with technology that ligeti or whoever never had . as for the klf thing - i think your're reading into the shock thing - i can't see any comparisons between the two at all. as fior stockhausens music being pointless - i think he'd be very upset if you said that to him - hymnen - pointless ? that's a deep piece of work there. it's a bit silly to compare him to thee people cos obviously they have very little in common and aphex has many faces - like does stockhausen understand how todo dance tracks~? |
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"For some reason he has become one of the more famous faces of electronic music... " Yep. The music videos, the mystique, the tank, tha bank velvet, and the strange bahavior has maybe contributed to that? :) |
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well really, everyone "steals" from everyone else... nothing is 100% new... artists just take their influences, and use that to create something which might have a few new ideas mixed in there... I guess the most influencial band or artists I can think of are The Beatles... they just took rock music and opened so many doors... but even they had previous inspirations, and borrowed ideas from other places and put them together to create something new... |
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all those groups and artists that you say are making newer ideas and sounds were born out of afx's ass. afx is inspirational to all of them. revamped old ideas are always the best anyway!! |
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Get it together. Who else has that Aphex magic? |
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well really, everyone "steals" from everyone else... nothing is 100% new----wrong.....Ae doesn't , and at the start Aphex wasn't tooo , just now his ideas are empty..... |
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empty?!!!? RDJ is the best. period. forever!!!!! |
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yes, Ae and aphex did "steal" ideas when they started... but they've taken those ideas and have done their own things qwith them... I never meant that they literally stole ideas, and blatantly copied other people, hence the quotations... just kinda meant it sarcastically, meaning that some people would probably call it stealing... |
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yes ae are certainly influenced by other groups and artists - their music doesn't come from no where - it's just you're ignorant of it - neither artists steal though - that's way too harsh a word |
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i find aphex does in a song what a/e explore over a whole album really - with emotion and often melody too - something that a/e don't seem to have in large amounts |
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i believe he is innovative. sure he is standing on the shoulders of the experimental greats, but very few people can honestly claim to be 100% un-influenced by something. I think most of his innovations are in use and development of techonology in music. He is like the electronic Nirvana. Nirvana opened the doors for a ton of seattle bands and the whole grunge scene. He has done the same thing for IDM. Shit, this message board is teaming with IDM fans and may not have even existed without aphex twin. |
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i can tell you where emotions are in Aphex-they are in song called On and m,aybe in Selected2 , but i'm not an ignorant - i know that music is making circles , but there is much more ideas in Ae albums then in AFX works....just get together Ae albums and Afx albums and listen song by song all of it....you will surely now that making noise without idea isn't music..afx does make this kind of noise , Ae doesn't , there is always a hidden patch in Ae songs , and there is not in AFX songs.....when youre listening Ae you suddenly now that beat is in background and melody is in first place , even if you thinked that it is completely different at start.......and in afx there is beat and melody - but only beats and melody.....in right order of course..... |
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didi you ever seen that there is changing rhytm in afx song ? or that there's melody changing from sad to happy , then to sad and then to spooky sounds ? no.....these are ideas of Ae - changing concept of music.....and afx is only making a noise, just lkie "hey , lets make song with pneumatic drilll-there is nothing like that " ,,,,,but it is no big thing to make thing that are different....the idea is deeper than you think. |
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I often think similar thoughts about aphex - normally when i go on autechre trip where i listen to nothing else apart from ae for about 3 months. its easy to lose respect for him during something like that, but afterwards you hear something of his, might be a track or album or anything, that will flick a switch somewhere and you'll realise again that he is absolutely wicked |
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try in other way to understand it ....try to do song in afx style and then try to do the same in Ae style....and you will see what i'm talking about |
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and he has put a face on IDM... quite literally. like many other successful musicians, his marketing is brilliant. So in that respect he is like the electronic Dr. Dre. the windowlicker video is likely a parody of that and it reveals his sense of humor which is refreshing. |
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but iis it the real face of IDM ? a marketing moves ? watch on AE - they are non-,marketing at all , and you know them - this is piece of art....and what would be with afx when we put away all those marketing moves from him ? another crazy musician with crazy ideas about music,,,but only this.... |
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i'm not sure that's totally accurate. the st michaels mount song or whatever it's called is quite epic; changing from an energy filled schizophrenic dnb track to a chill out track with many other progressions in-between.. but i see what you're saying, ae is deffinately more abstract. |
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well, i was just kinda re-iterating the point that Aphex twin has brought the music to a larger audience. just like Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains owe a lot to Nirvana, and eminem owes a lot to Dr. Dre, i think ae owes a lot to aphex twin in regard to exposure. |
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and i think NOT...ae owes nothing to aphex, they are were known yet in 91 and earlier , remember Cavity Job ? where was aphex at 91 ? he was just another boy with crazy ideas - and Ae were creating patches , and aphex was walking them.......i think that Afx owes Ae a lot |
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this is the kind of topic i would like to find in this site... thank you for the interesting discussion! |
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on one of parties there was afx pleased to make some little concert for people...and do you know what he did ? he putted microphone to coffe mixer , destry it and then he throw that mixer into audience......welll he must feel like god if he thinks that this is right thing to do ,,,,you know , someone just was smached by that mixer ? this is the face of IDM by AFX -thank you for that selfish creativity and that way of creating music..... |
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but who cares ? lets pay afx for another mixes from shelf of "neverending drills" , my god this is good ( and nobody cares that it is still the same , but in diferent package )... was there any difference between last few albums of AFX ? i wasn't able to see them |
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and what we have here is the only good thing that afx made - he made emotions and he made discusiion....but thats all he made |
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waiting for contr-arguments...... |
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well you sound like you have some anti-aphex twin issues. all i'm saying is that Aphex twin brought IDM to a larger audience. I realize that Ae had released a single in 91 but that is irrelevant. Many people, including me, had not even heard of Ae untill after first hearing aphex twin. if you want to get techincal, analogue bubble bath came out in 1987 and selected ambient works 1 covers material from 1985-1992 but i am not talking about release dates, i'm just talking about Ae's exposure. I'm sure that they would not have as many fans as they do had aphex twin not first opened the door. yes, he's a showman. I wish Ae would have done something interesting at their show. i paid my 25 bucks and all they did was a 1 dimensional hardcore show with absolutely nothing to see but a little smoke and their glowing laptops. sure the music was good but i paid for a SHOW. they could at least engage their audience or recognize that sombody came to SEE them. Ae doesn't do that, Aphex Twin does, hence more exposure for the genre. |
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if you want show - go to cabaret , circus , or marylin manson cons\cert .....my god i cant believe that you wanted show on Ae concert...man it is no matter of show , and if you wanted show and if you couldn get one , then probably you just dont know what is the matter of Ae music....all music , you know , going on parties like this one to see shows is little strange to me ....i never was on Ae concert , but i know that single seeing or even hearing Ae live should get me on moon...... |
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aphex- did acid house long before it was in clubs (not that it really matters, i suppose... cause i don't believe he introduced it) -did not invent, but revolutionized ambient, Saw2 will be an ambient standard for the rest of existence -fused classical, techno, and trip hop into the revolutionary album that was icbyd (no predecessor sounds remotely close) -while vibert may be oft cited as inventor of DrillnBass, the RDJ album and Hangable auto bulb eps took the genre to a new level of frantic energy -on drukqs, afx took drill further, fusing garage sounds, creating unparalleled tracks such as vordhosbn -nothing, NOTHING sounds like the first 2 tracks on windowlicker... (although, i'm tempted to say that new Gescom might be thematically linked) -but really, more than anything, i think that APhex is in large part responsible for the prevailing attitude of those working in the experimental electronic field today... the mischievious, free-wheeling attitude which permeates the vast majority of his up-tempo works... he is often compared to mozart, and i don't think that this comparison is off the mark... Mozart didn't invent a new strand of classical, but he revolutionized it all the same... both were/are incredibly talented and prolific, and the mark they have left on the works of their contemporaries, and successors, is incalculable... in what has been a short lifespan for electronic music, Richard D. James is easily one of the most important figures that the genre has produced to date... certainly the most important electronic composer in the 90's... |
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whats so hard to believe about wanting a show at a show? plaid has a good live show, funkstorung has a good live show, squarepusher (so i've heard from friends) has a great live show. Ae's live show was crap. 1hr of non stop hardcore beats divided into what sounded like 4 unrecognizable tracks. they could have at least mixed it up a little bit. 5 minutes of something melodic, is all i ask. but rather they sat on stage in the dark staring at their laptops. they could have at least faked it, made it look like they were doing something. what's the point of touring if you just look like you are checking your e-mail for an hour. it was great for the 1st 15 mintues and then it got boring. don't get me wrong, i think Ae's music is great but, for example, if i had never heard Ae untill that show, i probably never would have bought any of their music for fear of it being boring. in fact, the only reason i stayed for the whole show was because of my respect for them but it was easily the worst electronic show i have ever seen, except for maybe four tet last week. now that was a bad show. |
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that's what i'm saying. finally a voice of reason. |
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you all know that Aphex Twin sucks right? |
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Just don't sucker yourself into thinking it only takes some random asshole with a stupid grin on his face who got lucky. I'm easily capable (and you are too I'm sure) to pick the aphex sound from out of the pack, which indicates he has created a unique sound. Combine that with his spot-on insight on proper artistical music, the brilliant name and logo, and you have an artist of rare quality, definitely untouchable for most homebrewing musicmakers out there. |
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if there are bedroom musicians doing better out there... they sure haven't tried to get picked up by a label because anyone who is better than afx will get snapped up faster than you can say "come on you cunts let's have some afx acid!" |
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of course. i agree that not just anybody could have done it, good marketing or not. but you also can't discount the importance of good marketing. marketing brought fans who in turn brings money to the labels. labels with money can sign more artists which bring in more money to sign more artists which creates more exposure for the genre. |
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and again, great topic. especially for a "n00b" ;) |
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that first reply was actually meant as a followup to hyakusen btw. evolume: ...and don't discount the importance of the artist's name and logo ;) , combined with his special eerie sound it elevated his status further. |
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true true. how many people have aphex twin tatoos and how many have autechre tatoos. |
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fuck tatoos , theyr'e not a symbol of good music , how many people has scooter tatoo's ? much more than afx tatoo's , i think that ae will be very sad when they read this - this is last thimg i expected here - judging music by shows , marketing , tatoos and logos...for christ sake !!!!! people !!!! |
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i will tell ya 1 thg more : Ae probably will not come to my country , probably i will not be on any concert of them and i am very sad with that... i'm jelaous of this ae concert - i admit it with no harm....but because of this i can see this : i will never judge any music by shows. Once they are good , once they are bad. do you can assure me that afx shows are always great ? do you ? NONONO and please dont tell me that afx is still innovator - listem to druqgs ? and what about 26 mixes for cash ? is it good ? really ? and what about title ? wel , if this is the way of IDM i dont want to look at this at all - |
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all those names you said... those people prolly got them own inspiration from other musicians too. That's the way things go in music. |
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