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dub plates
 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 03:29 [#02629628]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



upturning the carts of the disc changers


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 03:37 [#02629629]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



can anyone suggest an example release, for which one could
purchase both a vinyl and a direct-download FLAC that... the
vinyl is 100% pressed from exactly the digital download,
same source

so i can buy both, put my finger on the turntable, and try
my theories out?

i guess i'd also need a turntable


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 04:38 [#02629630]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



i guess it's also important to say

LAZY_TITLE

while i have all manners of words for those who blindly hump
crusty old analog formats, i firmly accept turntables as a
legitimate instrument.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 04:48 [#02629631]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



...and it was somewhere between ansel adams prescribing
breathing exercises and physical exercise routines to hold
the camera more steady, and DJ AM that this failed
thread emerged. somewhere in my bullshit thread, the word
"bionic" -- i'd just seen a DJ AM docu on TV and one of the
guys on there was like: "he was, you know, as good as anyone
else really... then he just disappeared for a while, and
when he came back... he'd freaking gone bionic"


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 04:52 [#02629632]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



anyways, it's here, i can do this, i'm not posting more
details because it's funnier to watch someone else try it
and fail than it is to write up instructions for someone to
steal


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 05:14 [#02629633]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



and cite >15yo tech as an example that most of
what you need to make it work is already solid as a rock.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 06:14 [#02629634]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



huh, hmm. anyone know anyone at serato?

and this is about where my ego taps out, because
they're smarter than i am.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 07:33 [#02629635]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



VinylFS

the first unix filesystem specifically for vinyl data
records


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 07:37 [#02629636]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



mount -t vinylfs ./crying_fanbois.flac ~/lol


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 07:47 [#02629637]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



a filesystem for vinyl data records, i am... what's the
ginger word? chuffed?
because this is the most awful thing i've come up with,
like... all week

that this is going beyond transmitting one data file. this
is being able to mount a FLAC rip of a vinyl like you would
a disk image. so it could contain multiple files,
directories, etc

will this ever happen? sadly, probably not. but if it is at
all possible, i want to be there in the thick of it


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 09:25 [#02629639]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



WORM ~ Write Once Read Many

...

WORD ~ Write Once Read Destructively


 

offline mermaidman on 2023-08-02 09:57 [#02629641]
Points: 8080 Status: Addict | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02629619



if you know all that then you know your stupid idea won't
work.

for the last time i never said anything about wav. i said
"why would you compress the audio with flac before
pressing?"

you're the guy that used 128kbps mp3s until yesterday lol.
stop pretending


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 10:01 [#02629642]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



is there any existing work on the shannon limit, if both
parties posess shared information? essentially, the idea
being "context." and if we've agreed that the data sent
corresponds to words in today's newspaper than 1 bit could
actually mean more than one bit?

i can't find anything on it


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 10:05 [#02629643]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



probably a baliwick issue
like, "you're still transmitting the same number of bits,
shannon DGAF what you do wit 'em"


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 10:06 [#02629644]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



but. but. the context of shared language across humanity
allows you to pick the appropriate words from today's paper
-- even if you have to get creative -- and thus compress...

ouch. my hed


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 10:35 [#02629645]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02629641



if you know all that then you know your stupid idea won't
work.


very convenient of you to be so sure, yet provide absolutely
no details as to why

you can translate 1 bit per side easy. is it a noise floor
or maxed-out white noise?

2 bits? just split the playtime up

and in the end, it's about "how far can you push this" and i
don't think 50mb per side as a worst case is far off at all.
with the theoretical capacity being much larger, but we've
thrown most of it into sync/CRC etc

you're the guy that used 128kbps mp3s until yesterday
lol.
stop pretending


what i do not know is what the fuck you're talking about? i
use 128kbps mp3s? huh? i haven't exported one of those in...
actually, yes, at least a decade

conclusions: mermaidman's trolling is off before he's had
his morning cocaine.


 

offline mermaidman on 2023-08-02 10:46 [#02629646]
Points: 8080 Status: Addict | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02629645



in the discord you were talking about mastering the high end
of your 128kbps mp3 track lol. that is the epitome of having
no clue


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 11:37 [#02629647]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



i... don't use discord?
if someone's on there as me... it's not


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 11:39 [#02629648]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



is someone impersonating me? that's kind of wild
what do i do?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 11:52 [#02629649]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



sounds like i got under someone's craw pretty good, really
🏆


 

offline mermaidman on 2023-08-02 12:09 [#02629651]
Points: 8080 Status: Addict



c'mon you were in russell's discord you know what i mean.
only if russell didn't delete the server i could quote you


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-02 12:12 [#02629652]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02629651



🏆 🏆 🏆


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-05 09:23 [#02629690]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



The 116 images (one used for calibration) are encoded in
analogue form and composed of 512 vertical lines. The
remainder of the record is audio, designed to be played at
16+2⁄3 revolutions per minute.

Jimmy Iovine, who was still early in his career as a music
producer, served as sound engineer for the project at the
recommendation of John Lennon, who was contacted to
contribute but was unable to take part.


LAZY_TITLE

serato is 15 or 20 years old. here it is at 45 years ago


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-05 09:27 [#02629691]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



really, this comes down to gathering the right bits from a
few different fields. from the voyager golden record, i get:


The 116 images (one used for calibration)

...and, why, yes. that's self-obvious, in retrospect. you
have a dedicated calibration stage at the start of the
recording to compensate for both speed and frequency
response


 

offline RussellDust on 2023-08-05 11:10 [#02629698]
Points: 15951 Status: Regular



Dub plates
Footloose
Dub plates
Footloose

Dub plates
Your dancing shoes

Footloose
Dub plates
Footloose
Dub plates




 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-06 12:23 [#02629707]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



oh, it's not about that

if sending out data in the format of an LP was good enough
to put onto both the voyager probes and send further than
any human-made thingy has ever been... then i'm on solid
ground


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-06 18:42 [#02629715]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



so for VinylFS

i'm thinking you want to have a second volume in the
ultrasound range so someone with crap consumer gear can open
the first in the audible range... but people with better ATD
can get at the second batch of files


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 22:22 [#02630013]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



i have found CERTIFIED PROOF that i'm actually quite
reasonable. because look at this insanity:



The Kansas City Standard is a way of storing data and
computer software on cassette tapes.
Back in 1975 a
bunch of guys (among others Bill Gates - long before being
famous) met in Kansas City to try to define a common
standard for data storage on tape. The result was a
300 bps FSK modulation scheme.


For fun I will make a circuit that will take the audio
from a cassette tape (or more likely a audio file from a
cellphone), decode the audio into a digital serial bit
stream and then convert this serial data into a parallel
data byte onto a 7-segment display.

Just to make it a bit more challenging I will not use any
microcontroller or even any integrated circuits


@ LAZY_TITLE

...and i know people that do this sort of thing, like BUILD
AN ENTIRE COMPUTER FROM DISCRETE COMPONENTS ~ that is, a
computer, no chips

it is some form of mental illness, you'd think -- but it's
therapy for OCD people, and then many people just find it
kind of meditative like cross-stitch

really, however ~ what do you wind up with? the useless crap
in his demo vid: LAZY_TITLE

it just sits on a shelf, i imagine, and occasionally he
shows it off. then someone asks, "What's KCS?" and this is
not even something you can show off because it's too
conceptually dense


instead my thing is more: "most vinyl is pressed from
computer files, the difference is largely psychological, so
i've pressed the ACTUAL computer file to the vinyl record to
cut out the middleman" and then they can ask "so what's the
point of vinyl then?" and i can say "EXACTLY"

like, i have a point to make, normal people will get it, and
this makes it art instead of a sad hobby

8-bit construction set


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 22:37 [#02630014]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



...but i'm there because, like

~ here is there is a very good read of an explain on
how tape data works here before it gets into the actual
code, which is assembly language

~ meanwhile, other end a 60m/2h DAT Tape can store 1.3GB.

~ and here is some gearhead saying you can get 1.5mb
onto a tape but only if you jam tin foil into it
[???]

~ DAT/DDS gets to 1.3GB because of better
equipment on both ends. helical scan like VCRs [i could
look up ADAT, now, but i'd rather shove nails up my anus
than even think about ADAT]

~ that covers that arc, right? existing attempts at vinyl
data are pretty much within all that. but KCS only goes up
to like 2kHz we can do more

~ so, um... oh! STEGANOGRAPHY. this has to be solved,
because someone would definitely, um, oh, like..

~ data hiding in MP3 based on Huffman table transformation

~ GNU radio

there's so much more tho


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 22:47 [#02630015]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



when i SDIY custom music gear, it usually comes from me
reading over some schematic, and "i could glue this part of
this schematic into that part of that schematic i read SIX
MONTHS AGO; that would work great" [and the agony of my life
is my brain is completely right, but IT'S A LOT OF WORK TO
BUILD IT]

VinylFS, right.

i'm not claiming to be some genius at complex analysis. in
fact, thus far, i've avoided having to really do any of it
[GNU Radio does that].

i am claiming to be a genius at mining fourteen different
fields like a magpie, with a dash of Feynman's "do you have
a map of that cat?" [Feynman won the bet]


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 22:59 [#02630016]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



there-is-some-precedent.jpg


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 23:36 [#02630017]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



~ ...and when they stopped being able to push DDS (DAT)
tapes any further with capacity, they switched to
Super8 Camcorder Tapez, they can get 160 gig onto that

~ they were gunning for 300GB but then someone at HP
cancelled the project

[did u noe: this is fun to research ? shit like this cracks
me up]


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 23:37 [#02630018]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02630017



LAZY_FIXED


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-23 23:42 [#02630019]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



~ how does RADAR work anyways? whou wouldn't want
to know that?! ...and who hasn't been waiting, like,
forever, for a homework problem to decode RADAR in gnu
radio?

*crickets*

well at least i have plenty more to annoy mermaidman with
now


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-26 04:54 [#02630046]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



In many contexts, a discrete time (DT) system is really
part of a larger continuous time (CT) system. For example, a
digital recording system takes an analog sound, digitizes
it, possibly processes the digital signals, and plays back
an analog sound for people to listen to.


...so: digital is technically a temporary bubble
inside of analog, and everyone can stop arguing now


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-28 21:10 [#02630074]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02629641



oh lovely

if you know all that then you know your stupid idea won't
work.


why not? i mean, really... why not? the answer to the sync
issue is: serato has a strong sine wave throughout, and this
it enough for it to determine not only speed, but
direction -- so more than we need. the timecode
stamps are to let it know where it is on the record; we
don't need that either. so all we need to solve the fucking
wobbly turntable problem is about 1/5 of 20yo technology

is this hard? fuck yes. but, can it be made to work? i still
have not found any reason that screams "no." i'm open to
there being something that slams the door on it i've yet to
find, but for the moment, i lean towards
~MERMAID.MAN.IS.FULL.OF.SHIT~

CDMA is not too bad. QAM though, getting like: THE CALCULUS,
IT BURNS. then these things are just generic tools, all of
them, and they stack. CDMA QAM and a punchy sine wav for
time sync. have AE heard of "Manchester Code" ? that's a
"self-clocking signal" but a waste of bandwidth if throwing
a dedicated chunk of the spectrum to a sine wave will do

i've come up with some intermediate stunts that don't
require shelling out for vinyl. stay tuned


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-28 21:21 [#02630075]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



self-CLOCKING. clocking, ok? get your mind out of the vinyl
cutter
Manchester
1998 solves the wobbly problem and gets shafted by
the dutch over patents
40 pages, in french
or in english ms.pinky explains sine waves and what
nosegrease does to timecode


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-28 21:28 [#02630077]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



in the shortest way possible -- e.g. written by someone not
me --

"Records are stereo devices and can encode two channels
of audio (left and right). The pilot tone is printed onto
the record with the left and right channels 90-degrees
out-of-phase. When the record plays forward, the right
channel will be 90-degrees ahead of the left channel. When
the record plays backwards, the right channel will be
90-degrees behind the left channel."



 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-28 21:38 [#02630078]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



my magpie senses tho

The two carrier waves are of the same frequency and are
out of phase with each other by 90°, a condition known as
orthogonality or quadrature.


--QAM


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-08-28 21:58 [#02630079]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



i contact the ‘inventors’ of final scratch, a dutch
company called N2IT. i’m interested to know if N2IT are
intending to try and patent their system, as our projects
are so similar. i refer them to the spacedeck project
website and they confirm that they have filed a patent
application. they did not seem willing to discuss much else.
i also send messages to richie hawtin/plus 8 records, who
appear to have some kind of business
relationship/sponsorship deal going with N2IT. no response
from them.


...and with a shaved head, he's a dead ringer for some rat
that shafted me over a place i worked years ago. he might
need to go on santa's naughty list

but that's a tangent


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2023-09-22 23:04 [#02630271]
Points: 6239 Status: Regular



WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT
what does it have to do with dubplates ?????


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2023-09-22 23:06 [#02630272]
Points: 6239 Status: Regular



i like reading ur stuff dude but i dont like getting sold
short, i want some dubplate action when i click a link like
that, knowwhatimsaying


 

offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2023-09-22 23:08 [#02630273]
Points: 6239 Status: Regular



>>>upturning the carts of the disc changers
yo la tengo whant their schtick back:)


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2024-04-11 05:31 [#02634767]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02629591



wtf are you talking about? how is any of this answering
my question


you don't know. it wasn't. welcome to my personal version of
"not now, the adults are busy, go play"

what do you mean with "if you use your 96k sampling rate
gear, you can stuff at most perhaps 300mb onto a stereo
vinyl"


this means you can use the same equations electrical
engineers use to compute how much data you can stuff through
a cable modem wire (analog, noisy) to napkin math the
theoretical maximum data capacity of a vinyl record

[sidebored ~ arguing with the "theoretical maximum" is
arguing with claude shannon, and you don't want to fuck with
that cat. i certainly got scratched badly last i tried]

the factors are... [two] channels, [96k] sampling rate,
duration of a vinyl record, signal to noise ratio of the
channel(s)... e.g. the BANDWIDTH of a vinyl record

i began by stealing someone's calculation off reddit,
realizing they'd gotten the length of a record wrong, and
then if we went up to 96k... then... not merely round down,
but lop a chunk off the top, because that's life, and 300 is
an easier number to remember than... i dunno, 350-something

and this is perfect conditions. so we need redundancy. error
correction. but, really -- 50mb out of this crate, and
that's a success to me. particularly if you can claim "the
world's first filesystem for vinyl records" and post cheeky
merge requests to the linux kernel so this can all get some
publicity. for me

does that answer your question?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2024-04-11 05:36 [#02634768]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to steve mcqueen: #02630271



WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT
what does it have to do with dubplates ?????


obviously this will take a couple stabs to implement [or,
well, rat's fart chance that it won't]. so we need to press
it and see if the computer can hear it. and how much we
lose

then, i dunno, are we going to be doing a full-scale run of
this anyways?

if you meant the thread title: marketing told me dub plates
sell better than vinyl data


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2024-04-11 05:59 [#02634769]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



personal log: for a brief moment at the end of august 2023,
i actually got my head around quadrature amplitude
modulation (QAM). it only lasted a few days, then work
pulled us away, and when we got back to it a week later,
we'd lost QAM. in april 2024, well, it's still not coming
back immediately

i mean the nuts-and-bolts implementation stuff. i still know
the bullet points listing the features on the side of the
box, where it's used in normal human life, and... well, i
don't want to summarize gnu radio

but QAM is what electrical engineers use to stuff data
through a cable wire (analog, lossy). inside of QAM, we're
now DIGITAL, and in here we have... redundancy and error
correction [and then, finally, the world's first vinyl
filesystem. for unix].

outside of QAM we lift most of serato/timecode discs to
correct for the physical issues of vinyl [at the expensive
of throwing away a whole channel -- it's worth it to not
have to speed correct or whatnot]

so [repeat entire sections across the record (timecode disc
tech {QAM < convolutional encodingdatafilesystem

i mean, i remember this stuff well enough, but... was it
turbo codes? was i using them on this layer or that?

how you structure the "container" -- using the word in a
file-format sense -- very much up for debate and tinkering.
the answer to "you're nuts" is "steal most of serato" and
boom, stfu hataz. from there, i see QAM as the the
unarguable winner to go from analog land to digital data

...but we could have it in redundant analog chunks
....and inside QAM the digital data has... blah blah

it's very much a feel of building a PC at this level of
design. going shopping for an analog modulation approach,
and there's a sale on QAM, looks good

"sale" in the sense of money=time and this one will save us
quite a bit of time.

for designing this probably never happening stuff. but, hey,
i don't think anyone has the finesse to rip me off at least


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2024-04-11 07:38 [#02634773]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict



so i pulled up this thred, 'cos. in my bullshit thread, "oh,
they aren't even numbers means... they're not _real numbers_
perhaps." leads to "when did we last touch complex
analysis?"

and my brain says this thread. and we pull it up. search
thread for complex analysis:

>i'm not claiming to be some genius at complex
analysis.


oh, get stuffed. i don't need any help with that

i do need help with... a new job, actually. if this thread
doesn't send you away screaming... it might work. like this
whole concept, however -- the the idea of finding a job like
this is likely to remain an abstract engineering exercise
forever. and no, sam altman, i'm not working for you. stop
calling me. even though i'm just making this up and imaging
it i cannot describe how irritating it is


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2024-04-11 08:36 [#02634779]
Points: 24457 Status: Addict | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02629551



do you think .htaccess is turing-complete?

comparable question would be, "Can you build a functioning
car out of duct tape?" ...can you do that? is that
possible? [i lean towards no; powering it gets incredibly
iffy]

came up with this after reading magic: the gathering is
turing-complete on lunch at work.

if you allow a deliberately stacked deck, you can set up
certain patterns of cards that force your opponent to
perform computation for you.

and there is a mathematical proof. that this "computer" can
run any program any computer can. but you won't get very
good framerates on doom

...a part of me promptly thought, challenge accepted
and i'm promptly stewing on how to outdo this. in terms of,
oh... AAAUGH YE GODS, WHY?!

oh! i think .htaccess very well might be turing-complete"

...and this is sort of, like, you know. what i'm proposing
with data vinyl dub data. AAAUGH YE GODS,
WHY?!

because i don't think you can do any worse. in fact, i'm
throwing down the gauntlet, here -- just try and outdo this
level of... WHY?!

the .htaccess idea is so beyond terrible; it beats this
hands-down. but this vinyl thing, dub data -- this is the
strange class of [AAAUGH YE GODS, WHY?!] where the technical
quandaries are simply so charming and deep and wonderful
that... wait, i'm still working on this? nevermind. it's
wonderful


 


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