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ok......so i enjoy talking about music....musical artists....and sharing information about groups i like. but how much is too much? as i mentioned in a previous thread, sometimes i just wanna listen to the music and not analyze every little detail. am i alone in this? i like knowing some stuff, but when does it become too much......when does it make the music secondary? if that sentence doesn't make sense.....what i mean is, do we stop just enjoying the music at some point, if we talk about it a lot? pls share any thoughts you may have! =0) |
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yea we totally do. very few musicians put their music out to be analyzed, most put it out to make people feel an emotion (usually FUN) |
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people on this board really do overanalyse, and so do i sometimes. sometimes it ticks me off to see this, but usually, it makes me want to listen more to certain albums/artists. i keep wondering what the actual artists would say if they read all of that 'overanalysing' done on this board. they'd get a good laugh for sure. |
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for me it's an emotional response first. i ususally know (but i've been wrong) the first listen.....if i like something. and yes....sometimes i wanna know more about the background of a song....inspirations.....etc.....but sometimes.....knowing too much about something can take the OOMPH outta the music! IMO |
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music i usually like on first listen i dont like or enjoy it as much a month later. it's more the other way around, i like albums that 'grow' on you. |
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it's the same with producing music, sometimes musicains just do too much details in the tracks, fiddling, processing, finetuning etc. but then they just think that some peoples don't analyze the great works and go back to basics, that's what i like. and yes i do the same.. |
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I think you just proved Linkin Park can be enjoyable :) |
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The more knowledge I have about the creation and falicitation of album, the more likely I will end up putting it in my ears. (The music, mind you, not the actual physical album itself...;) ) |
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i think that the track names really tell you much about the track sometimes, what the artist would like to tell you ... example... "prince" from global goon... |
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names/titles.. *sigh |
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analyzing the music is half the fun of it! overanalyzing occurs sometimes though, i agree. but seriosuly, it's fun. |
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heheh.....map i couldn't agree more. you know i LOVE SAW II....it's the first aphex i owned .... but i swear if i hear anymore about it i'm gonna scream (no offense richey) but seriously.....sometimes i just wanna enjoy the music..... cortex.....i agree.....i like music that grows on you too (unless it turns green...ehhehe) =0) |
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bratscal! it's the music (how it sounds) that makes me buy. who produced it...maybe influence me a lil.....but i can like complete crap (as some would say) because it makes me happy, feel like dancing, or relaxing, etc.... it's about the music......not what all they did to create it i wonder if this is a girl thing? ehehehhe |
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i soo agree with that crappy music.... i can be so simple and still good :) venetian snares (maybe under another pseudo) - girls don't like me is a good reason for that :) or afx 2win's melodies from mars track number 4 ... |
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i used to "overanalyze", but i got too much other stuff to worry about nowdays. now i only care if the music is interesting. |
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I think some people on this board over analyze music too much at times. |
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yes. i over analyze and i like to do that. ive found the discography of autechre relates to a civilization advancement both technically, agricultrually, physically and mentally. |
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oooooooh, please share! |
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no need here. my book hits shelves in two months. its called How The Discography Of Autechre Relates To A Growing Society. $17.94 |
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is it available @ amazon? |
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it will be yes pachi |
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On the one hand we know the artist has created the tune and so feel it is possible to reduce it to elements and or whatever - ie. might be interesting to analyse/overanalyise. On the other hand the piece of music seems entirely independent of this process, it seems to possess a mystical element, an irreducible something. what to do .. what we do do ... ? eh.. ok .. that suddenly died. |
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'..metimes, what the artist would like to tell you ... example... "prince" from global goon... ' so named by maddog because it sounded a bit like the artist formally known as prince ;) |
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Anything distantly related to anything anal is my cup of tea. |
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Well in a way we do over analyze music but not too much. If that makes sense? When we do talk about music on this board we normally get right into it and discuss heartily but more often than not we talk about random crap on this board but somehow relate it to music. |
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I think we do. One of my mates who does computer animation seems to analyse films rather than actually watching them. Sometimes I stop listening to "music" and start thinking about how the artist did it. My dad does the same with paintings... |
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Anal is never banal. |
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I'm a total cynic when it comes to pop music, so i tend to analyse that... just when it's on the radio. The funniest stuff is "British R&B" where you can hear how some lame fat white guy has tried to make a "street" sound by attempting to copy Timbaland or Neptunes style production and getting it so wrong it would be funny except for the fact that it isn't, and is presented as "new urban black music" when its just processed cheese by numbers. |
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God what a moody git |
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He he, doesn't rhyme though matey (looks as though it was meant to)! |
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Hmm, now that you mentioned it, it doesn't. It rhymes in serbian and this is a usual joke over here... But stupid me, never thought about the pronounciation in english. |
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Yes! We absolutely do. Usually i try to stay away from discussions here about the "meaning" of certain songs, because i fear it might somehow ruin what's so special about it. I had the same problem when i was still in artschool, during art-history classes. The teachers would show us these slides (like in a slide-show) of paintings. And sometimes there would be paintings i really liked! But then the teacher went on to explain what it meant, and what the artist had wanted to say with that... and after she had told her story, i often had a feeling like: "oh... so that was all there was to it?"... and i liked the painting less, because the mystery was gone. I think the great thing about art is that you can give your own meaning to it... that is what art is all about, not to think about it or try to solve it like it was a puzzle or whatever. You're just supposed to enjoy it and let it take you to wherever your feelings guide you. I feel the same way about music. I really like artists that refuse to talk about the meaning of their songs in interviews! (and i hate it when other artists go on to explain every little detail). It's a difficult subject, and i never feel like i can explain good enough what i mean. But for me personally... i try on purpose not to analyse music too much. |
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Not to mention that, in its nature, music is non-referential, non-mimetic art form and therefore has no intrinsic meaning whatsoever. Music is to be experienced by spirit, not intellect. However, social, cultural and historical analyzing is useful when it comes to most pop music (IDM included). |
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useful in what way? It's tricky... because the analysing can also be fun to do... but afterwards you regret doing it. It's like... when you discover a beautiful piece of music, you want to know everything about it. And afterwards, when you know everything about it... you wish you wouldn't know so much about it. Because the music sounded more special before. |
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I have to disagree... music often has clear referents, like the cannon in the 1812 overture. I think you can listen to most music and think of a human activity: partying, or worship, or dancing, or mourning. Country, blues and folk music has sounds of trains and nature and people working and celebrating. If it didn't have some sort of mental association it wouldn't have an emotional effect, or it would be obscure, like Autechre: soundtracks for emotions that haven't been invented yet. |
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Well, useful as a large part of pop music is not dealing with sound alone (as most so called "art" music does) but with the community, the culture etc. Hip-Hop being the perfect example. I don't see the way to enjoy hip-hop to its fullest potential without getting to know the culture, the references etc... |
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Saying "often" is kinda misleading here. Most "classical" music is completely non-referential in sound. You just picked an exception as an example. I agree, a lot of music is associated with cultural activities: religious, work, celebration or else. However "associated" is the key word here. Most of this music makes this association by using lyrics. The music itself is not mimetic in any way (I dunno if the word mimetic is used in english at all??). It's an old debate that was very heated in Wagner's time and I tend to be close to those who claim that music has no "meaning" in itself and no "emotions" in itself, save for those that we choose, decide or are talked into recognising. Autechre communicate with my spirit rather than with my emotions, OK? |
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Ah yes, okay... when it comes to lyrics i have to agree with you. I for instance know nothing about hip-hop, and usually when i hear some of it, i don't have a clue what those guys are on about... because i've never taken the time or effort to find out about it. Music is to be experienced by spirit, not intellect. i so much agreed with that bit though! Music can be so wonderful... it can make you cry when you don't even know why. And it can also make you happy and cheerful, and you also don't know why :-) (and you shouldn't try to figure out why!... i think that's what this thread it all about). |
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Well, I agree with that. Trying to give meaning to something that has no meaning that can be expressed in words is the wrong way. Many people do tend to intellectualise things that just need to be experienced. I see a lot of people on this board who describe images they see when listening to Autechre or RDJ. I don't. |
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Saying "often" is kinda misleading here. Most "classical" music is completely non-referential in sound. You just picked an exception as an example. Now you're confusing non-mimetic with non-referential. Most classical (maybe not 20thC so much) has referents, themes, ideas. I agree, a lot of music is associated with cultural activities: religious, work, celebration or else. However "associated" is the key word here. Most of this music makes this association by using lyrics. The music itself is not mimetic in any way (I dunno if the word mimetic is used in english at all??). I get VERY clear emotions and images from country fiddle music with no lyrics. And I can listen to folk music with lyrics in a language I don't understand and get something from it. Why is that? The defiant pride of gypsy music, the sad lilt or joyous stomp of Celtic/Gaelic.... It's an old debate that was very heated in Wagner's time and I tend to be close to those who claim that music has no "meaning" in itself and no "emotions" in itself, save for those that we choose, decide or are talked into recognising. Well yes, of course these things are socially constructed in music just like in any human language or communication. And to a certain degree they're arbitrary, but in another way they're fixed--I think any human culture woiuld have a similar response to major versus minor chords simply due to the dissonance in the harmonic overtone series in minor chords. It's the way our ears and brains grow. Autechre communicate with my spirit rather than with my emotions, OK? Fine by me. :-) |
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Shit, I wish I was that good with HTML... OK, when I said non-referential, I meant non-referential to language, is that OK? And the language is the house of meaning as Heidegger put it so nicely. A music that refers to another music is still non-referential when it comes to associating meaning with it. I think the fact that you get VERY clear emotions out of instrumental music is due to the fact that you yourself are able to put it into an already readymade cultural frame of reference. Words that you use : "defiant", "sad", "joyous" can not refer to music itself IMO, only to the context you put it in. Context agreed upon or established by authorities of any kind... I just do not agree about the part about chords etc. Many non-western cultures don't even use the same harmonies we do. In a lot of cases emotions that you experience when listening to music of other cultures have nothing to do with the actual context of that music. (When listening to tuwan folk band Huun huur tu I always get all those religious associations, whereas most of it talks about breeding horses and living in Taiga). It doesn't even have to be foreign culture: many people have mistaken intense expressionism of '60s free jazz for anger whereas it actually was joy in most cases. I have to say I am a little surprised that I have succeeded in maintaining an intelligent discussion without resorting to talking about porn for three posts straight. |
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I love to analyze music, most of the time it's the only way to get emotion out of it. I often need to listen to the track 3 times to finally discover the beauty of how the musical patterns interact. And if you don't analyse the ways a celloplayer plays the notes you'll just hear a bunch of notes. Without analysis, music is just noise I think it's not bad that people overanalyze, it's what people analyze that's important for the enjoyment of music |
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EXACTLY. I keep a clock on a string next to my Cd player when I bump some hip hop. |
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Hmm, you are just saying that one should focus on the music to fully experience it, which I agree with. Analyzing, however denotes expressing musical experience with language and that's often misleading or plain wrong. |
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What does that mean? |
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"Well, useful as a large part of pop music is not dealing with sound alone (as most so called "art" music does) but with the community, the culture etc. Hip-Hop being the perfect example. I don't see the way to enjoy hip-hop to its fullest potential without getting to know the culture, the references etc... " I like to act like a brother when listening to hip hop. I wear a clock round my neck, big trainers, a sideways-on baseball cap and loadza ice. |
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Ahh, I thought you were making that kind of reference. Me too. I call my father "bitch" all the time and refer to everyone else as homiez. |
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"Analyzing, however denotes expressing musical experience with language and that's often misleading or plain wrong." Who says you have to analyze the music in someone else's language/context? No one forces you to have the same interpretation of the music... For me, analysis is just the difference between hearing and listening(thinking about it) |
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whit's a' this pish? |
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It's OK. That's what I said anyway, that you said that you need to really focus at music. |
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