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it seems like we're currently getting the repercussions of an age where mainstream media casual violence became widely accepted as "OK". people seem to exist in another reality nowadays. |
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hah, no I think you can get the data on such situations through the normal newspaper channels.. the difference would just be that we have the data and not the commentaries (except for interpretation instructions) like most newspapers. |
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he was 20 btw and his killer was about 17 or 18. |
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who gives a fuck about the media? its the fucking justice system that encourages this behaviour, surely? the sun is campaiging for justice which to me highlights that there is not trust in our legal system and thus the source of the problem in the first place? they think they can get away with it basically. |
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Harder punishment? Death penalty? Sure the USA is the safest place on earth. Nobody's violent there just cause they fear the justice... Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff! |
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does the justice system encourage this behaviour? how? the sun is a newspaper (or "newspaper"), and as such has no business campaigning for higher sentences (which must be distinguished from justice, which is nothing like what they're campaigning for). |
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i don't think it can be put down to one factor, but i would say the legal system is large part of it. i say we use some good old fashioned propaganda. |
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this is the current public image of the police |
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So you prefer a fascist state? |
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how would that be a fascist state? propaganda is used everyday in our society. anti smoking adverts. army recruitment. charity adverts. all sorts. what makes the changing of the public perception of something, fascist? i don't really understand what you're getting at. |
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ehh.. the purpose of the law and judicial system and police is not to scare people from doing crimes! It is to catch them when they've done the crimes. using a scare tactic won't do shit. what is required is something that can only be achieved over quite a long period of time and with an active participation from the government.. attitude campaigns (though I don't believe in them many people seem to think it works, so who am I to argue?), bettering of certain living conditions, and just somehow improving on all the thousands of other factors that come into play. they won't achieve perfect score (+1 bonus to agility), but something should at least happen... |
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eh..? what's the difference between propaganda and commercials in your opinion? you seem to be basing it on "commercials = what corporations do" and "propaganda = what the state does." |
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the purpose of the law and judicial system and police is not to scare people from doing crimes! so there's no such thing as a deterrent then? i think something short-term may help but i agree that something long-term should be done. i say it has a lot to do with upbringing. one major factor being peer influence. i think we need to look to other more peaceful countries as an example of what needs to be done. |
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"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." WIKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!! |
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my examples are misleading. i would say that most adverts are propaganda. especially ones that involve some form of guilting you into buying the product. "you are subjecting your children to dirt! buy this now and they will be safe!" |
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im not here to be polite |
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i wasn't suggesting anything like that at all. of course my propaganda creations are a stupid unsubtle exaggeration. i'm basically thinking that the public image of the legal system is regarded as weak and flimsy. i think people should respect the laws that are in place, and respect why they are there. |
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deterrents are car/house alarms and personal security services, not the police. |
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i wouldnt mind living in a fascist state. if it stopped stuff like this then for sure. all of them should be put to death. |
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not a jail sentence? |
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bah... |
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does the justice system encourage this behaviour? how? By not dishing out proper sentences. Instead of this 'minimum of' bollocks - life should mean life. Then the media would have something decent to report on. The class that the Sun appeals to (the no.1 selling paper in England) are probably the killer(s) and their friends and family (if they have any) so the Sun is just using its voice maybe to discourage or something, at least its doing something. |
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no. a jail sentence is a social sanction against an offending party not something to scare someone from doing a crime. I am, of course, distinguishing between primary reason and secondary effect. the secondary effect may be deterring, but that is not what laws are there for and no law should be created or modified as something to scare people. |
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ppl shoudn't be scared of their government, government should be scared of ppl... |
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read my previous post and then I add: I have no idea who the sun appeals to in england (I imagine it'd be house moms and such), but I'm sure there's no class of murderers and criminals who all gather around to read the sun every day and then get scared cause it's trying to get someone else a higher sentence. I will repeat what I said earlier: a newspaper is not a political instance and shouldn't publicly call for such things. I'm also pretty sure that the reporter who wrote the article knows nothing about legislature or politics. |
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not house moms no, they have a young girl with her tits out on page 3 every day. whats a political instance btw? |
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i never said that a jail sentence was exclusively for deterring crime. but then again, i heard, a sentence offers little hope for reformation as (lets be honest), putting somebody in a prison is the easy option. apparently, many who go into prison re-offend over and over. |
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oh, how cute! |
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oh, right. eh.. I may have been using a norwegianified translation there.. It basically means something that actually has something to do with (formal) politics like a political party or politician and different non-profit or charitable organisations. I know there are non-charitable organisations that affect politics heavily through lobbying and stuff like that, but they're not supposed to... |
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not exclusively, no, but the length of a maximum or minimum jail sentence should not be determined by any such factors as "keeping people in their place" or "scaring them out of it." The extent of a legal sanction is a pretty formal matter. |
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what do you think should be done (specifically) to reduce crime? |
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Education |
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what if the kids miss school? i.e. playing truent (which many now do in england on a regular occasion (also where there is correlation of "who becomes a criminal")) |
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actually i just thought, "get 'em young" - before they know how to rebel. it's like with sex education. in the uk we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the uk. many put it down to the education of children is brief and vague. if children are educated about sex at very early age (like they do in some european countries with the lowest teen pregnancy rates) then it will become forged in their brains. relate this back to the whole crime thing. |
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n the uk we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the uk i meant "in europe" not "in the uk" |
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Yeah. Agreed there... |
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I don't know. |
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thats about right. its the same with financial stuff, its simply not taught at school at all, so you get students taking out massive loans not understanding that they have to pay it back. the education system doesnt actually teach you stuff you need to know to live your life anymore, they just teach you to pass exams |
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do you not think then, that that is the fundemental flaw in your argument? |
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no, not at all. that you need an alternative something to criticise it is not a valid argument. I don't have the competence to formulate a specific plan, but I can still point out that something is wrong. Like if someone said "let's kill all people with aids to eradicate aids" and you disagreed you wouldn't, before you saw that the argument, have any specific or even general "stop aids" plan devised in your head and you most likely wouldn't have the competence to formulate one even when given time (unless you actually do have the competence, or you spend time acquiring the competence (this competence would probably be something medical and political)). |
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also, there is no flaw in my argument. |
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"let's kill all people with aids to eradicate aids" Drunken Mastah 2006 - Post of the decade. |
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note, though, that that doesn't apply to larger organisations (mainly political parties) where it is expected that they should have consultet some sort of expert before making a statement. |
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*consulted. |
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it's fun to pretend that our opinions make a difference |
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lets make our own free state |
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the synth revolution is here, anyway. |
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it's called excercise; you can't just have opinions and walk around with them cooped up inside, you have to bring them out to play with other opinions so that they can win or loose and grow stronger or weaker. |
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no you're right. i still agree with you original points. that prison services should not be used for purposes of intimidation. i agree with that. i just think that criticising and not offering an alternative is not a very progressive way of thinking. its thinking like this that causes current methods to go unchanged. at the end of the day, the general public, the electorate, the mob want answers, they want action. and if you're not offering this, then your voice is going to go unheard. |
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steedie logged on? |
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