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 (nobody)...and 508 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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:) |
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"No clear lines; everything just flows into everything else. " ya canerfold, ur right and that applies to EVERYTHING, including thoughts, physical objects... everything.. lines are just made be people as generalizations so we can make some sense of the world.. its like we draw the lines around the colouring instead of colouring inside the lines.. |
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ppeople confuse their subjective perceptions with the objective, then the try to group or simplify or polarize their subjective views into forms or models to try to make more sense of the world... but the problem is that people tend to skew their conclusions by how they tend to WANT things to be, a choice between confusion and chaos, or an order which they find more reassuring... that does not make it 'real" thou... what is reality then? |
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good point korben. i can't say that i don't believe in anything therefore i have my own dogma, but i am always open for a reevaluation, ya know? i like to let my beliefs follow the same laws as everything else, which means some may become extinct and some may have to evolve. like i said, change is constant so my personal dogma must follow that. notice that change has always been a huge deal in humanity. we got the church resisting the changes that came along with the rise in the logical reasoning of science, and we got the scientific community resisting the changes as more and more come to accept there intuition that there is more to life than just matter bouncing off of matter and following laws. and of course we got the age old system of the elder folks in general resisting change that the youth is so in love with. change cahnge change and more change. i think a lot of difficulties in life arise from our trying to get settled in this boat, when we just need to jump into the ocean and accept the flow. |
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true true - aka pigeonholing and language will be discovered to be a very limiting device also - with a whole host of presuppositions: rationality, yes/no (can't think of the word i'm thinking of :) um like if something = A it != B and shit like that. I mean just look what sort of stir the Quantum theory created .. and what sort of head twist it is if you try and explain it - "but if its a particle [A] then it CANT be a wave [B] " etc etc. |
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exactly Ubik. subjective perceptions versus objective. people love to make facts out of very uncertain things. it makes us feel comfortable. |
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hmph... u guys who weren't there, u should really check out the topic: "god" (or something like that) but what IS objective? and subjective? reality is only, CAN only be, what you percieve the universe only exists in ur head... but ur head only exists in the universe... but the universe only exists in ur head.. but ur head only exists in the universe... ...etc... |
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oops was responding to aminal .. my follow up thing doesn't work :( |
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i love quantum mechanics. it's so controversial and gives everyone a headspin. |
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all real answers come in paradox form. or it sounds good at least. |
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I don't know if I believe in God or religion or WHAT the fuck I believe in... seems like bullshit to me, but then I have to wonder how the hell time and reality and existence started, why, when... and I get confused and my head hurts. If there's a God, I want him to give me a fucking sign so I can quit laying awake at night straining my brain thinking of this stuff! Blarg! |
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yes good point sydo thats sort of what i was trying to say.. language.. draws all those lines... it forces u to communicate in a very-non abstract way, modularizing, containing everything in neat packages taht dont really exist... (even now im searching for the right word) it's often very limiting when ur dealing with very abstract/delicate ideas... |
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Canerfold - too true - i think also - language .. (doesn't have to be spoken) undermines the whole idea of knowledge .. which in turn means that knowledge by virtue of what it is undermines its very self (and yes .. my head hurts). again tho - to save myself from being a hypocrite - keep in mind that this is just my opinnion at this point in time type thing. ophecks: arent there enough signs .. if you look for them you'll find them .. [hehe bit of pi there] np: autechre - chiastic slide |
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oops, i meant korbin! |
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d'oh! i meant: KORBEN as in: KORBEN DALLAS phew.. im so bad at names.. but i can believe im bad at them even on the internet! |
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what is really disturbing is that I have to get up in like 6 hours... :( |
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:) worries man .. |
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hehe...blarg. |
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what if everyone worshipped a giant cod? and everyone went around praying to a cod? these little fishes all over the place, hanging around peoples necks, on bumper stickers...what a bunch of fucking morons |
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oh .. that :) was to aminal funk - bummer . |
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Opchecks says... "I don't know if I believe in God or religion or WHAT the fuck I believe in... seems like bullshit to me, but then I have to wonder how the hell time and reality and existence started, why, when... and I get confused and my head hurts" this is natural and everybody who actually thinks for a second will think this at one time ... but what i find fascinating is how just about everybody, from every culture, from every demographic, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, fat or thin, comes up with the conclusion that they must be important, they must have some significant purpose in life, that there life must have meaning which they should understand as good and important, and they rationize a world view to fit their situation... isn't this a little TOO good to be true, it's way to self serving... people want to believe they are better than the animals, that their life is important... it is the answer that people WANT... and the result is that people think they are the "shit" while anybody different from their demographic group is inferior... the history of the world... |
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cheers forck - you demonstrate the point nicely |
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thank you |
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hey i like animals...i dont eat them and they dont eat me |
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''i dont eat them and they dont eat me'' Trust me, some of those fuckers would eat you if they could... lions and tigers and bears, oh my, alligators, vultures, these assholes want your flesh! |
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ubik, if you have no purpose, why are you here? why does anything exist? we create everything, mostly unconciously at this point. everything is divine, you are divine. this does not lead to being better than animals of course. animals serve there purpose just as we do. every action you take, from the miniscule to the large, affects the entire universe all the way throuhout eternity (think chaso theory, butterfly flaps it wings, hurricane occurs at the other end of the planet) |
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sorry if that sounds preachy, but it is my experience. |
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why does anything exist? i don't know. but why do people assume they are so important? some guy sits at the bus stop claiming the creator of all time and space created him individually and loves him individually, and is going to tranform his special soul into an immortal force that will live forever in happy heaven land... or... is he just one of six billion people who is going to die, actually a below average individual... maybe there is a higher purpose to the universe, but c'mon, are not most people vastly overrating themselves? it is really selfish and self serving. maybe our biggest individual purpose is to provide biological matter in which bacteria feeds off of... but then that would make us seem too insignificant... we don't like that... we are animals, we poop and pee, play as kids, get sexual, change, grow old and sickly.... |
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and die |
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why do the bodily functions make us less than divine? why does being an animal make us less than divine? there is no definite purpose to the universe. the purpose is what YOU make it. consiousness manifests as our reality. i've decided that belief in heaven after death is an avoidance of the responsibility of cleaning up our mess here on Earth. heaven is real, but it is a state of conscoiusness of humanity that is within the limits of possibility. earth is a highly improbable occurance... our situation, this very complex state of conscoiusness is highly improbable. earth is heaven, once we realize it. if we take this highly improbably experience for granted we are throwing away something very amazing. i's like throwing away a winning jackpot lottery ticket, except this is infintiely greater than than that. just try for a moment to imagine how special this experience of earth is in the vast universe and don't take it for granted, please. |
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well, that would be a positive attitude, i guess, while you are living, you might as well make the most of it while you can, no problem with that... ... what i get sick of is people whining about how their "problems" are all somebodys' elses fault, and that they are "really" important and righteous, and are going to be rewarded in the afterlife as they deserve to be.... what, they earned eternal happiness just because they suffered just like everybody else, but they chose the "right" religion, so they are going to be rewarded (for nothing really, other than choosing the right religion). this seems nonsensical to me. this worldview is self serving. people should try to solve their problems and except responsibility for their mistakes. and if there is an afterlife... well, thats after you die... live while you are alive.... |
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I never gave school much credit for teaching me anything good anyway. teach=one who aids another in learning. My favorite teachers are people I don't know who write wicked books, I learn from them indirectly without them even knowing. |
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^ true true ubik n canerfold - didn't read all of yer dialogue. . but surely one can think of oneself as pretty important, as we have a unique access to this body/mind that we don't have to everything else around us??? this doesn't go to say one shouldn't respect other creatures/beings etc .. ? |
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i think most of the snobbiness going on around us at this time is mainly due to parents bringing up their kids to believe that they are special -- i see that a lot. i agree with ubik - no-one is born "special", they can only be called "special" if they act in a special way. a good example is ernesto guevara, who sacrificed his Self for a Cause - call it martyrdom if you wish. and have you noticed how the real special people act with the most humility? |
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that example also goes the other way .. because one doesn't have to look far to see people dropping "their cause" as soon as their life is in danger - eg gallileo. is one better than the other ?? perhaps more pleasant ? |
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Bono for Prez! yah! |
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they would be a sellout - but if someone dropped a cause because they were going to be horribly killed because of it, i am sure we could be intelligent and evolved creatures and show mercy to them? afterall, how many of us on this board would not do the same if a man with a gun told us to say "JESUS SAVES! THE EARTH IS 10,000 YEARS OLD!!" i think even i might succumb in that situation... :D |
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korben, I was really impressed with your music. I listened to it a few days ago. |
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exactly! by succumbing we assert that we are in some way special - as we in this instance disregard the cause or whatever (a bit hypothetical here) .. but what would one do if it meant that 500 people were to be killed (but you saved) ??? - tricky indeed! |
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http://www.boston.com/news/daily/24/law.htm save the children!! |
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yeah in the "olden days", families always sent their gay sons either into the army or into priesthood - priests must be sexually repressed; i mean, we still all function on an animal level right? them priests are some dirty bitches! |
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Has anyone read "The physics of immortality" by Frank J. Tipler? It's a scientific try to proof the existence of god. It says that there will be (at the nearly end of the universe) something like a machine that will simulate every genetic code combination. And now you may guess what that means! the machine = god the simulation of every creature (which means a rebirth) = paradise If you're good in physics you should read it! |
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so what god is he trying to prove? or is he trying to rename an existing force as "god"? |
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He's trying to prove the christian god. I don't know what you mean with the exisiting force? |
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it's just that, how would proving that a maching popped up spouting out genetic combinations specifically be proof of a christian god? and by existing force, i meant an already logged aspect of "nature" or "universe" |
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He supposes that a combination of humans and machine is the next step in the evolution (just like the borg). these living machines work together in a far future as one machine. I think thats what you mean with the existing force. |
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no, i left the force of choice deliberately vague. and i still can't see the link between that and proof of the Christian God - it could just as well prove the existence of Amoun-Ra or Yog Sothoth :D |
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The future of human being is dark. I saw it while bad tripping on lsd. I, once, saw Amon-ra and Viracocha playing chess on a marble table. This was the shrooms fault. |
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is that the future of humanity, or just on human? sorry you had a bad acid trip - but don't mistake a vision for a revelation |
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*one |
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