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 (nobody)...and 362 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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i'm not sure if i'm being understood. i think i agree with much of what is being said. there is a difference between realizing that life is a unique situation that shouldn't be taken for granted and thinking that you are special more so than a nonreligious person. you know, it's possible to recognize the miracle of existence without being stuck on the bible or the all-mighty. |
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is it ridiculous for a person to feel that there is more to life than particles? religious folk are just trying to understand these feelings, but often rely to heavily on the popular dogma rather than find the answers themself. |
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ya.. but more and more of life's 'wonders' are being revealed to us every day.. true love or pheromones? depression or some sort of chemical inbalance in ur brain? u see what im getting at... more and more of what we consider to be the most amazing things about life are being shown to be very physical processes |
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i think you are eating it up a little much. we know that depression and our emotions have a correlating physical process, but can you tell me how you get from chemical to emotion? see, your emotions, your consciousness is not a product of your brain. that would make freewill an illusion and if you want believe that go aheas, but i know that when i will to move my finger it moves and that's that. the chemical reactions in your brain are the physical manifestation of your consciousness. it is the tangiblility of our emotions and thoughts. |
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I do believe there are catalysts that caussed the major cataclysms such as the big bang...but whether it was a god with capital G O D is doubtful..a single monlithic entity goes against wisdom of thousands of generations and civilizations..there are forces yes..hence the elaborate and detailed pantheons from the most primitive societies right down to the roman empire..but a single god..or a trinity even..naah.. |
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science just breaks up the questions of "what the hell is this reality stuff?" into smaller questions like "what is an electron and where do the forces come from?" science doesn't answer anything completely. it is just a tool used to predict so that we can consciously manipulate physical reality to our benefit (or our demise). the idea that we are coming to know everything through science is an illusion. |
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i am a spiritual person, but i don't believe in god nor do i believe in religion -- i believe in a conscious universe that we are a part of, a valid contributing part - i always had this idea that we are alive so that our memories and experiences would go into some cosmic pool. and science isn't cold or lifeless as it is portrayed by religious leaders and their ilk - a lot of scientists are passionate and open-minded individuals who are pushing back the boundaries of thought and imagination more than any preacher or philosopher. |
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like a famous scientist once said "the whole universe is in a cup of hot tea" (richard feynman) *paraphrased* |
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who cares if there is a single god? if there is such thing as a god, surely it is merely the sum of all things, making us a part of god, but that is really irrelevent. i know that i make the universe move, not some seperate all-mighty being. definitely not the christian god. i might be made in god's image, but then so is a rock and a star system, and a bacteria... but i really think there are more powerfukl unkowns to be concerned with. |
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it's good to hear that you consider yourself spiritual without being religious. many don't understand the difference. |
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if they are unknown, how can you be convinced they are there? that is faith, which is the main component of religious brainwashing (excuse the bias). we are all gods, a god is nothing special. we are the big bang after all - we are the universe, not separate from it - so any "GOD" as you mean it would have to exist outwith the universe, and therefore outwith our existence surely? |
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yeah, especially religious people - once they find out you ain't religious they think you must be some kinda infidel and soulless creep :) |
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yes, but we all faith in something. can't really be without it. i mean, i have faith that I have free will. you have faith in something. most scientists have faith that physical matter is without conscoiusness. |
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"... your emotions, your consciousness is not a product of your brain. that would make freewill an illusion and if you want believe that go aheas, but i know that when i will to move my finger it moves and that's that. the chemical reactions in your brain are the physical manifestation of your consciousness. " exactly! free will IS an illusion... it seems u acknowledged that.. then just dismissed it cus its sort of a depressing idea its like u pointed out that there could be two possibilities, then just chose the most comfortable one without any rational reason. consider this: ur brains electrical activity and ur minds thoughts happen simotaniously, so u cant say which one comes first, or which is the product of the other... ...u cant say for sure that BUT physical things (ie: drugs) DO affect ur mind very clearly and obvious way meanwhile, examples of our mind affecting physical things are always very wish-washy... (ie, electrical brain activity being the product of, or cause of thoughts) for example: if u cut out a chunk of ur physical brain, ur mind will be affected very obviously but i cant just think of something and then see an obvious physical manefestation of my thought: ie,i cant just imagine a car then have it appear before me physical process affect your 'mind', not the other way around then with chaos theory, it becomes clear that free will is in fact an illusion, since all events have causes, and those causes have causes, etc... BUT (if ur still reading) i know it can be argued just as affectively the other way (physical universe existing only in ur mind)... so im not saying im right and ur wrong or anything... |
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and i don't mean to talk down science so much. i am very much a science minded person. i just happen to interpet the data a bit differently than popular science does. |
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but even drugs are a part of your consciousness aminal. everything is a manifestation of your consciousness. we are just focal point of consciousness, nodes if you will. |
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yup agree with marlowe collective subconsious strain of thought..I believe the god is in the dna..it's the genetic memory that we pass from generations to generation..also fits in with the theory of evoulution..as genrations pass the poll of memories and experience widen and deepens..the genes thus mutate and evolve to accomodate and house the experiences of the previous generations....there was a time when the human being was coded..given the capacity to compute abstract thought..the mind was an open unhibited and inviting organ..magic existed b/w that time and the time the language was invented...then suddenly the freedom became subjective..the need to catalogue and codify everything gave birth to the modern man and the death to the elemantal forces and gods..or at least removal from this physical plane to that of imagination..and mind |
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how does chaos go against free will? with every conscoius decision i make, i affect the entire universe.... conscious mind manifesting the universe |
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and i said that IF your consciousness is a manifestation of your brain, then free will is an illusion. you brain is merely the centroid of your consciousness. |
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"how does chaos go against free will? with every conscoius decision i make, i affect the entire universe.... conscious mind manifesting the universe" yes.. but then YOUR concious decisions are also affected by other things.. being your control if u follow the theory through completely, then ur concious decisions are nothing but hte products of OTHER events just like the hurricane is, in part, the product of the butterfly |
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thing is, how do you know that it is a conscious decision? how do we know that we have free will - i really don't have that kind of faith, not just saying that, i don't believe i have free will |
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*i meant BEYOND your control... ..not BEING your control |
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About DNA... the strands of DNA in your body reflect you emotions. When you expereince fear or tension or anger and such the coils tighten and bunch up. they relax and stretch durring more positive emotions. The U.S. military has conducted extensive research that no body seems to be able to interpret. When a cell is removed from your body, the DNA still reacts to your emotions. DNA was brought miles away from the test subject and still was able to measure the same reactions in the DNA. |
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yeah, like the "psychic" connexion remains? the ripples of spacetime |
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lol, well, I'll never KNOW that I have free will, but then I will never KNOW anything. Might as well give and kill off all life on Earth. Maybe it was ok that Hitler killed millions of Jewish peopl because, after all, it was only a fucking product of the forces of physics. You don't know that free will is an illision anymore than I know it is not. But there is such a thing as experience. My experience is, I want the glass of water, I'll go get it. And so I do. I don't understand how we came to think there was a sepereation between physical reality and consciousness. You have to deny everything you feel to believe it. |
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If physical reality and consciousness are one and the same, rather than conscoiusness being the product of physical processes, then think of what evolution might be. Evolution is the incresing complexity of consciousness, and therefore control over physical reality. The more complex the organism, the more it affects the world around it. Here we are, a highly complex conscious being, and our affect on the world around us is massive. |
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i KNOW i dont know! i never said i did! and i certainly never meant to sound that way thats why i included this handy little disclaimer: "BUT (if ur still reading) i know it can be argued just as effectively the other way (physical universe existing only in ur mind)... so im not saying im right and ur wrong or anything... " |
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k sorry aminal |
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got to go do laundy, later |
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i'm off to bed now - i hope this thread continues so i can put my tuppenceworth in in 8 hours :) |
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holy shit thats messed up |
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I was just kidding. But I think that 1st forms of religion (mostly shamanic, like in south america before the spanish conquests) are the fruits of drug absorption. In fact, there is more natural Psychotrops in s.america than in the whole world. |
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Ubik, you read my mind. |
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yup..they code and log all of your expereinces.. |
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do you think scientists will ever be able to interpret electic pulses into langage? i.e. read our thoughts? |
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Evolution does not equal increasing complexity. Evolution and complexity are not directly related. This is the main flaw of the pop-culture definition if evolution. |
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complexity on the conscoius level... intelligence... complexity in the way in which we manipulate the suroundings, which are not necessarily seperate from us. we'll probably be able to read eachother's thoughts through the subtleties in body movement, facial expression and even the subtle vibrations in the air before we need to decode the brain, but of course it's possible. it's just too inneficient to use logic for communications. intuition will slowly take down the boundaries between us... which is scary for some, because we are obsessed with privacy, but once we're ready we can just express and drop the worries. communication in any form is a miracle if you ask me. we take for granted how fucking ridiculously complex and amazing speach is. |
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we don't map out the vibrations in the air to understand voice. we developed a sensitivity to it. all our thoughts affect the subtle vibrations in our body and the air around us. the entire universe vibrates with our mind. only a matter of time before we reach the next level of sensitivity. telepathy is not such a strange thing. it will be every bit as scientifucally explainable as voice communication. |
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where did you read that bit about army research on DNA? i'm really interested there. |
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ya me too sounds interesting |
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I think that's a fair point, we don't have to "think" about sight, it just happens. However, I'm more inclined to believe telepathy is dying out, we don't need it now due to phones so it will "atrophy". Similairly I expect eyesight to get worse now that we have glasses. |
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how could it die out? it's barely surfaced. we are obviously a species obsessed with communication. imo, we will come to need telepathy in time so that communication will be instantaneous. i could only imagine this leading to us entering a more unified state like a single being is unified by cells.... realize i'm only specualting because i get a kick out of the possibilities of the future. things as they are, as we know life, have only been this way for an infinitely small amount of time in comparison to eternity, so i assume things will unimaginalbly different. i also speculate that the acceleration of change is positive. if you follow the landmarks of say, the creation of the universe, to the creation of stars, of earth, of life, of language and art, of computers, it all seems to be speeding up. then again who am i to choose what the landmarks are? just seems like things are getting quite fast, and that's where all these apacalyptic feelings are coming from in the religions, but maybe it won't be the end, but the beginning of something... |
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i never read anything about that dna experiment. i can't remember his name, but this geologist, sort of a "new age" person, he gave a talk on all sorts of shit, just things that nobody talks about because it makes no sense within the simplistic view of reality. another bit he gave us was something some physicists at nasa did. a couple guys were observing the way light behaves in a vacuum. nothing particualrly interesting was coming out of the research until one of them, for some unknown reason (just imagine joe physicist coming up with this), decided to put a piece of human dna in the vacuum. the very idea that he thought to this is amazing! what in the world would prompt him to such a thing? anyway, i don't remember exactly, but the light would bend in unexplainable ways, curling around the double helix or something. blows me away. |
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binary code: 0 and 1 DNA code: Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine, and Guanine i wonder if one day, genetic engineering would create biological matter to substitute for mechanized precision devices. i don't even know where to begin as far as backing my theory, but for one thing, it could benefit the environment. |
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Organic computer research is actually at its most exciting moment ever at present. Several molecular switch schemes have been successful, one of which involves nucleic acid. Using DNA logic gates can theoretically allow for the potency of today's super computer in a single drop of water. |
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Its happening already now, Pachi, in several different disciplines. I am a 3rd year PhD student Molecular Genetics and I own a company that brokers financing for new nanoscience companies. I've worked closely with a few different groups that are working with nanomachinery. If you are interested, check out the latest news in Microfluidics, MEMS (microelectromechanical systems), and organic computers. There is some excellent research going on. |
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that sounds REALLY interesting Omneignotumus, do u have any links? i was discussing that w/ a friend of mine a few months ago... biological computers, that sort of thing i saw in some magazine (i think it was Popular Science, actually) that IBM has created organic memory... it looked like these blue cubes, that were supposed to be able to hold a LOT of info.. Omneignotumus, what do u know about this? links/info? |
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The internet is a notoriously below average place to read about modern science; there is a lot of junk and corrupted information on there. So I rarely look for information of this kind on there. Myself and a few of my friends occasionally write for online science commentaries though; here's a pretty informative (all be it anitquated) statement for someone with mild interest. http://www.chemsoc.org/chembytes/ezine/1998/comp.htm |
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thanks! ya i know what u mean about the net... i think the ease of posting info on it means anyone can publish information on anything.. and a lot of the time its people who simply dont know what the hell their talking about, and they end up mis-informing others |
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btw, what have you heard about photon computing? i dont really know much about it.. but as i understand it, it works sort of like our electricity based computers of today, but with photons taking the place of electrons presumably this would allow us to fit more and more complex circuits closer together, where electrons would jump accross to the next channel, photons would not... or something like that? |
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