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 Now online (2)dariusgriffin belb ...and 529 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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what is language if not mental imagery? |
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mental imagery maybe, but not visual imagery. it registers differently. |
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William Burroughs. James Joyce. Is one any better than the other? Does how the work was created, or how long it took, actually make a difference to the quality of the content? Is it actually possible to consider their work objectively? Postmodernism does not decontextualize, but rather sees the past and present simultaneously, not influencing each other's time but feeding from each other subjectively. Postmodern art, music, literature, whatever: not better, or worse... there is no such thing. Just different. Maybe not even that. |
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I think there are "traditional" and "collage-y" ways of working in any artistic discipline. |
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I admire your cock shrivelling arrogance, the way you can confidently state that it is "pointless" to compare collage and cut up writing techniques. I wish i knew what it felt to be so assured, to consider myself knowing fucking everything. |
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certainly. but a musical collage is a different beast to a textual collage. |
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I'm sorry, would you like me to put "imo" after each post of mine, so as not to confuse you? it must be awful to be so insecure to feel attacked by someone stating his or her opinion. |
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I don't feel attacked. I said i admired you. Don't confuse how you feel with how you think i feel. |
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...but a musical collage is a different beast to a textual collage. Why? Collage in the sense i think you mean relies on firing off associations between materials and allusions... surely this works very similarly in both textual and more conceptual musical collage, if not simply using collaged sound as texture. |
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well, you wording was slightly agressive. I'm not saying I know it all, only that this is what I think. if you think differently, that's fine, come up with good arguments. |
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yes, but collage refers to the process, not to actual work itself. I'm saying it's silly to compare, for example, music and text, as if they were on the same 'level'. it's like comparing a table and a lamp. both are furniture, but both have their inherent uses and functions, and therefore rules. so if you compare a table and a lamp made by the same designer, you look at them in the context of being designed by the same person, but they are still a lamp and a table, very different things. |
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certainly. but a musical collage is a different beast to a textual collage. Yeah, I'll admit that a collage approach to text has a much more decontextualizing / alienating / original-meaning-annihilating effect on its source material than a sound collage - mainly because writing has far more semantic content than music. Sometimes, maybe. And stuff. |
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exactly! |
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Jeez qrter, a pavane and a madrigal are very different things, better not compare them either. |
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Sorry, you're right. It was only that i felt you dismissed the Mouse's point out of hand. It's harsh to say something's "pointless". It isn't pointless, imo, to compare anything with anything else. That's all. I am turning into the trollish nob i always feared i'd become. |
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I see where you're coming from... It's the rule of "reading" a certain artform in a certain way that stumps me. How DO we appreciate art? Personally, i believe that our expectations of how certain artforms behave determine how we perceive them, not through any inherant objective meaning. The idea of not collaging, but simply reusing, duchamp or jeff koons-style is something i find rather fascinating. How do we use it? Just because it has somebody else's ideas contributing to its immediate appearance, is this actually all it means? And what the fuck is meaning? Where does it come from? Me or you? I've been itching for a thread like this. |
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Things have meaning only in relation to other things - if you change the relationship, you change the meaning. There's no such thing as inherent meaning. That is why context has to be preserved. Hell, postmodern collage (in the broadest sense) relies on the audience being aware of the original context in order for the clash to have a spark. |
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Hehehe, "context is everything" is pretty much my mantra. The personal relationship between artwork and viewer is certainly more important to me than the original context that an artwork was created in. This is why a lot of postmodernist visual art (the subject i'd know best in this area) works for me personally: the implications of material and technique, lack of original context, the fallacy of "universal" meaning... To cut a long story short, i'd certainly agree that things have meaning only in relation to other things but i'd add that only to YOU, or to ME my dear fleetmouse. Meaning is one-person-specific. I'd disagree that context is something to be preserved, though. Anything but personal context is a lie. |
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Barbecue anthill wedge snake lithograph eulogy? Anxiety porous filibuster! |
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You take that back right now, vacuous beanraker. |
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Humans are irreverent and heavily abstracting beings, so it's completely inevitable for everything to be used in every which way.. also, people are definitely self-aware to a paranoid degree these days.. I certain think about doing things 2381093821093x more than actually doing anything. |
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the idea that artwork might in some form present it's context to the viewer must be a shock and awe to artists. or maybe not. is art the result, the process or the meaning or some amalgamation. perhaps when I look at your painting of the apple and know not why you did it or even how, I can just appraise it's link with what I know of the world around me, yes if I know more I may appreciate it more, but once created you have little control over what you've done and it's link with viewers. hey I have an idea, why not call art the creation and then you can forget the viewer ;-) -- DoctorMO -- |
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yes.. YES! |
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You can't agree to several conflicting views, thats politics! |
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YESS, i says. |
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oh well. that makes sense. |
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change the context, abstract the premise, and all the points can agree. yes that's right, I get slaughtered for a living. |
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your a pig? |
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Minnie, the love pig. |
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hurray for all of you! i really wish i hadn't gone to my soccer practice (well that's a lie... but i wish i could've been here for all of this) |
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I wish I'd gone to your soccer practice instead. I feel all poncey. |
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fuck that shit! i'm not going to apologize to someone who thinks this conversation is to high brow or some stupid shit like that... if they don't like it, they can go start another thread about nothing... |
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"only when the words escape your mouth do you betray your true intentions." so anyone who thinks they're better than the rest gan bog off. -- DoctorMO -- |
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