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 Now online (2)Hyperflake recycle ...and 452 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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i wish i'd have something to say on that, that would make any sense :) perhaps i'll be able to think more clear about this in the morning....perhaps if monica was only thinking about this, it could be that she was imagining everything, what could happen if she would be pregnant - i think she was kind of afraid of having a child, so she was maybe thinking/dreaming of what could happen if she decided to keep the baby - perhaps that opening scene had something to do with this, as you said it didn't serve any apparent purpose, so maybe it was just another thing to turn her off of having a child... anyway, i found some comments by noe, he doesn't say much but it is for a start :) i'll search for more tomorrow :) |
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if i saw it in theatres i think i'd die |
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beacause of... |
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death |
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thanks. yeah if you find anything else, please post :) It may not be the case that she is imagining the movie, but it is an interesting view that can't be completely dismissed... I am not sure how to interpret the "time destroys everything"-theme. To me, that is just another way of saying "time heals everything" - (but saying it) in a way that fits this (tragic) movie. By putting the scenes in a reversed order, time ('the order in which we watch the scenes') will destroy the experience of what really happens; like the director said in the interview "the end of the movie is so melancholic that people come out puzzled and not with anger", but I would like to hear if you have any other views on it... |
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"perhaps if monica was only thinking about this, it could be that she was imagining everything, what could happen if she would be pregnant ...so maybe it was just another thing to turn her off of having a child... " Good point. Perhaps the movie is Alex imagening having a baby, and thinking about the future? The director said (in the interview) that the idea of "time destroys everything" (and the way it is shown, after the strobesequence) gives you a sense of fear linked to time. Perhaps Alex has doubts and fears about the future? The (reality of the) movie begins with her imagening having a baby and then she starts to think more and more about the injustice of the world today - that her baby would have to face if he/she was born (and she is swept away in her thoughts)... And the reason for putting everything in reverse order, more than to make things less appearant (as it does confuse the viewer) might be, simply, because the director wanted that happy/melancholic ending ("I wanted the movie to be like a mushroom trip -- it would start with a bad trip and then become a good trip" - another quote from the interview you linked) |
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more than to make things less appearant well, I do think the movie works better in reverse, especially since I really like the way it ends... |
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i'll definately end up seeing this, too bad i missed it... woo hoo, i know exactly what i'm doing tonight |
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Here's a quote from a swedish review of the movie, about the "time destroys everything"-text. "The future is already written; and we can't do anything about it. No matter what visions we have, life will turn out the way it will - ofthen not at all the way we imagined. No actions can stop time, nor can any omen or preminitions change our inexorable destinies. As humans we're left out with time and our own drives/instincts." Looking at it this way it makes a lot of sense to me... I think this is what the director said about it to. But I still find it to be quite cryptic. I mean it's so far apart. One might say the future is already written, but that doesn't to me necessearaly mean that time destroys everything, time is just a transportation device between two points (moments). |
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actually that makes perfect sense to me...alex thinking about the future, fearing of what could happen, she perhaps dreams about this while she's in that park, perhaps that sprinkler that she lie next to in the park resulted in a spinning camera - just another suggestion the she was actually imagining/dreaming the whole thing...who knows heh... about "time destroys everything" - this could be interpreted in any possible way i guess, i really couldn't say in what context was this related to a movie, maybe cuz the time of events was mixed - i agree with you that scenes just had to be reversed, it makes film and the story/mystery behind it much more attractive...actually all this discussion made me decide im gonna watch it again some time soon :) ok, back to "time destroys everything" - i think this is just a very pessimistic view on life, death, destiny, hurt feelings... noe seems to be quite a bitter, morbid person, so perhaps this doesn't have any sense behind it...just noe's negative/pessimistic aspect on life in general... i wish i could find something deeper in this, but nothing smart comes to mind :) |
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if this movie takes place in Alex mind, you think the rapescene has anything to do with the first scene of the movie? It's something that struck me the first time I watched the movie, because of the thing Taenia(spelling?) was saying when raping Alex... it's kinda scary. |
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huh, i don't remember that well what he was saying actually...i'll definitely put much more attention on details like this, when i watch it again. you really don't miss much when seeing a film, right? :) what other films have you seen that made you intersted about them? i'd love to know this, cuz im ordering some new movies soon :) |
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could it be that old guy in the 1st scene was alex's rapist? |
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It was just an idea I got when I watched the movie the first time. It's probably nothing, but if it takes place inside her mind; who knows? you really don't miss much when seeing a film, right? :) I think the reason for remembering a lot of this movie is because all shots are in one take; if there are a lot of montages one has to connect the shots in your imagination, and there is a lot more to pay attention to... Analyzing movies is fun, but I'm really just still learning. what other films have you seen that made you intersted about them? i'd love to know this, cuz im ordering some new movies soon :) Movies can be analyzed, just like books, but not all movies are interesting or give you "something in return" for thinking about them. I am sorry, but I only know about movies you've already seen... Atleast I think so... |
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here's another thing about that "time destroys everything" theme this has been used many times ""time heals all wounds"...perhaps noe (as pessimistic as he is) was trying to prove this wrong ...there's no way alex could ever heal those wounds, no way for marcus and piere (not sure of names - i mean her boyfriends in the film) could bring to life that guy (the wrong one obviously) who they killed in rectum. maybe :) |
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could it be that old guy in the 1st scene was alex's rapist? Taenia is not her father, but characters in a movie are not necesseraly just "characters" (especially if this movie would take place inside Alex's mind), they might just represent something. The connection between the scenes were just that while raping Alex, he was yelling some stuff about him being her "daddy" (but it's a common term [like "I'm your daddy!"], so it might be totally unrelated ;) The connection between the charactes are that bouth represents rapists. The old man speaks of that he raped his daugher, and we know NOTHING about Alex's parents (or her past). So, the difference is that one of the rapists didn't regret raping her [and he was punished physically (revenge)] and the other one did regret it [but we don't knwo for what reasons, perhaps they are selfish reasons] and was punished mentally (loosing his daughter). In this movie characters does not consider prison to be a punishment - and that revenge is a human right (but prison is not revenge). This is also a theme in the movie - about the physically and mentally - even the two male main characters represents this; one is intelligent (Pierre) and thinks, perhaps too much about what he's doing (but he changes during the movie), and the other one (Marcus) is described as a monkey - a man who acts rather than thinks before he acts. |
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doesn't pierre kill the wrong guy...? |
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yes, i didn't think that guy was her father...since the rapist wanted her to call him daddy, perhaps the old guy in the 1st scene was refering to her as his daughter...to many options all the way :) and another thing that made me think it could be the same guy was that he was actually living above "rectum" - favourite rapist's club i imagine...but again could be just a coincidence :) here's another great (imo) comment on time destroys everything: "Those who stay to the end will note that Irreversible concludes in a false paradise. Noe's approach to the closing moments is almost conventionally romantic. Unfortunately, our appreciation of this happy ending is clouded by the realization of what is to come next. We know that, within a short time, the characters' joy and zest for life will be forever, irreversibly shattered. As we are told at the outset: "Time destroys everything." This includes fairy-tale endings. Noe's backwards chronology reminds us that there is no such thing as a true conclusion; there's always something yet to come." |
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this has been used many times ""time heals all wounds"...perhaps noe (as pessimistic as he is) was trying to prove this wrong ...there's no way alex could ever heal those wounds, no way for marcus and piere (not sure of names - i mean her boyfriends in the film) could bring to life that guy (the wrong one obviously) who they killed in rectum. maybe :) yeah. I agree. It just came to my mind now that Taenia hurt Alex in the rectum and smashed her face, and Pierre hurt Taniea in "rectum" and smashed his face. It's like Pierre does the same thing to him as they did to her. |
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thanks for the tip, getting it now |
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yeah. that was a very good comment! So "time destroys everything" means that nothing lasts forever? it finally makes sense to me now! YES! It makes sense! I know I said it earlier, but what I quoted didn't make sense - this does! Thanks! |
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So "time destroys everything" means that nothing lasts forever? damn... It just makes soo much sense! |
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hello?!?...i could swear that the real rapist was not killed..pierre smashed someone else' head in... |
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yeah so I've heard... |
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:) i'd still like to read noe's version/view on this... it does make sense tho. |
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Yeah. That's not how I experienced it when watching the movie... but I have also heard that somewhere. |
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there are just to many different opinions ... " Alex talks about the book she's been reading, and its theory about time. Everything is predetermined and unavoidable; all we can do is catch glimpses of the future in our dreams. What might otherwise seem a banal piece of whimsy is rendered horribly sinister by our knowledge of what is about to happen. But this, and other traces of the rape - Alex standing in a red-lit corridor, Marcus wrestling her and proposing anal sex - are not really sinister at all. The rape hasn't happened, and in the moment they are the stuff of life, of happiness." |
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I mean it is never clear that the guy he kills is kalled Taenia... but I just experienced it that way, and they looked the same, and the room was dark. |
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yeah I already wrote that in a post, I think ;) but it's interesting when someone else expresses the same idea in different words. It's also interesting that this movie can be interpreted in so many different ways. This is one quality film. |
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yes, definitely...perhaps that was noe's idea, just to get everyone thinking. it really can go in many directions... here's a brief review, a very good one: " Irreversible. Because time destroys everything. Because certain acts are irreparable. Because man is an animal. Because the will to get revenge is a natural impulse. Because most crimes go unpunished. Because the loss of a loved one destroys like lightening. Because love is the source of life. Because premonitions don't change the course of things. Because time reveals everything. The worst and the best." |
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off topic : tolstoyed you were looking for artists similar to hellfish... I don't want to spam but I can give you some of my work under the AIA-alias. It's similar in the way that it is industrial hardcore with a lot of variation and beats. It's different from hellfish, defineatly, but you might like what I do. |
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Actually that review is the same text that is on the DVD-case (on the swedish DVD atleast). Luckily, I didn't read that before I watched the movie. I didn't even get it until now, that I understood what the "time destroys everything"-meant. |
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sure i'll check it out...thanks |
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that is actually noe's synopsis :) |
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I will try and finnish something today. I have had big problems with my motivation/creativity. But I've lately felt it's gotten better. so perhaps I will finnish something today... I will be sure to let you know then. |
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ah... didn't know :) |
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the rapist has some kind of thing on his nose...and after pierre smashes the head of the dude in the club and moves away...the camera moves up and you can see the rapist smiling...i watched it twice..and im pretty sure that's the way it goes...whihc makes the film more tragic, when the rapist goes unpunished. |
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in words of noe (the director) "Because most crimes go unpunished" |
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yeah that might be true. Also there is this guy who makes some weird comments during that scene - which could be Taenia... tragic... indeed |
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So then two "innocent" people get hurt in (")rectum(") and get their heads smashed? this is one tragic story |
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well, i wouldn't exactlly call that guy innocent, since he's going to a club like rectum :) |
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yeah he's just "innocent"... by the way, do you know any similar artists to hellfish? |
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hmm, some knifehandchop maybe... the reason i was asking this is cuz i gave a friend some hellfish and she loved it, well i love his stuff too, but i've been in bit different music lately. tho i always love to hear good gabba. |
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Hello ! I strongly hated irreversible for these reasons : -Don't like Vincent Cassel and Monica Belluci, never liked them (although I loved doberman for its artistic quality and for the scenario) -don't like the way it's filmed (seriously it's just saturated and nauseous-not in the good way) -dont like the scenario at all and the way it's inverted has absolutely no interest since nothing is happening, inverted or not :) it's about two violent scenes, one sexual, the other just physical violence... and just the fact we learn after the rape, that she was pregnent, that's the only pick of the story... I can add the friend of the couple is stupid and useless too, meaning so little, or we have to search deep to understand what is so symbolically marvelous about it... Total lost of time, totally reversible, washable and recyclable tho. Sad chaos |
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where were you all this time when me and key_secret were trying to figure out the meaning of it?? :) |
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I was already crying on another one I guess :) |
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but Pierre gets the wrong one in the Rectum, the one (with that bandaid on his nose) you see smiling after Pierre's fire-extinguisher action is Alex's rapist right? |
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woops aparently i had some setting wrong, i didn't see most posts when i posted this ignore my post :) |
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-"so what do you think of that irreversible then?" -"load of ol' bollocks!" |
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no problem. :) yeah I know he smashes the wrong guy. Since discussing the movie with tolstoyed I've watched it several times and I really like it... There's a lot of stuff in it, eventhough it's more about several themes/concepts than a clear idea. |
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