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 Now online (3)big dariusgriffin earthleakage ...and 173 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614237 Today 6 Topics 127550 |
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fleetmouse: well maybe not so much "wooden bowl of Manioc #34"'s, but more like festivals, parties, food ... dunno. it's pretty hard to this without it being "consumed" as it were. even bowl #34 probably got sold to a museum for a sum. bees and grasshoppers? .. hehe ... boy do i envy earthworms if that's the case. |
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Tibbar I know you to be a peddlar of untruths! My uncle Jesus copyrighted those words you mentioned. You, sir, are an impostor! |
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ouch! wow. |
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oh ... i almost forgot - i copyrighted, "copyright" as well as "©". time to foot the bill. |
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So their economy is morally and aesthetically superior because it's less complex? |
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what economy? |
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no - because they are attuned to the very ground of nature :)! |
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simplicity is superior to complexity |
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only its more complex than that. fleetmouse: what beef do you have with simplicity? |
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How do you feel about this whole Internet thingy? |
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complexity is real complex in its simplicity of complex variables of simple simon met a economy major at simplex herpes toebot |
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behind the complex is the simple - therein is the truth. |
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I take it you're trying to trick me into saying something! Well just be open!!! If I'm wrong and appear paranoid, then I retract everything I said up to "!!!" |
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Ground of nature - if by nature you mean "that which is untouched by man" then nature is by definition unattainable and untouchable. |
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Truth is error. Unless truth = some social/pragmatic norm |
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praga kahn is n=madeline kahn' older mother child get busy child |
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That's why it's okay to destroy the universe. |
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nature HAS to include man, since we are part of it - imagine a Venn diagram with man's circle within Nature's larger circle. |
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if by nature you mean "that which is untouched by man" then nature is by definition unattainable and untouchable. mmm.. that's true (truism). but that is not the sense in which i am using the term "nature". it would be an empty/mystical concept if that were the case. i was just using "nature" - in light of your deconstruction of the myth of *cough* "nature". If anything it seems to reflect your preconception : "Let's deconstruct the myth of nature! Are bees less attuned to nature - because they construct their own environment - than, say, grasshoppers? " |
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marlowe - why not make "nature" the whole page? |
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nature is the construction of the Universe, and consequently, of the Earth. |
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"That's why it's okay to destroy the universe."? you can derive ethical norms from wherever you want ... i'm just not a fan/advocate of absolute/explicit ethical norms. |
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oh so by nature we're confining ourselves to "living stuff" ?? no rocks gasses etc. |
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Just a quick re-visit to consumerism. consumption can be pleasurable and meaningful, but it seems that consumerism of late has permeated everyday life. it hasn't always been this way (only need to look in the past) - this enveloping consumerism makes it difficult to enjoy and find meaning in things other than for the sake of consumption. does not working to buy things which you don't need seem to a large extent a trivial excercise. whilst it is more comfortable to remain ignorant to such questions - if one does find oneself looking at things this way, and sees the pervasiveness of consumerism and the doctrine of consumption, it can be a tad overwhelming is all. |
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Was that to me? If it was, then I never said anything of the kind! |
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i don't mean to evoke negative associations with consumerism by using "ignorance" and such ... but i'm just apprehensive of consumerism constricting the possibility of finding value and meaning in things other than just their consumer value. product quality and status, determined by the consumerist machine? it would be sweet to be an earthworm, although a bit slimey. |
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marlowe .. well sort of .. kind of came out wrong, i was just wondering what exactly your conception of nature (in relation to the universe) was? |
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I think the two are the same really. Earth's nature is the Local aspect of the Universe's Larger nature to me. |
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1. The whole mystery around who astrobotnia was- the taunting pictures on the joyrex site, the huge number of rumours related to who it was... people saying it was BoC in a dancier style, people saying it was a collaboration between all artists on rephlex. Fake press release re: who it was given to the BBC by rephlex, fueling the fire, some stores (HTFR for example) listing it as AFX under another guise &etc. &etc. 2. What do you think JC stands for? "Jesus Christ"? :) I'm intrigued... (it's the last two initals of my real name by the way) |
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ah .. ok sweet, we're in agreeance there then :) mmm.. i might head off - get some much needed shut eye. maybe i've been a bit pessimistic. slipping into consumerism in everyday life may not be such a bad thing, and consumerism needs to a certain extent people that slip out of this everyday life to add fuel to the mindless progression of invention and product evolvement? |
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ceri jesus christ! |
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yes, constant consumerism is a depressing thing :| |
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ceri J charlton :P |
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hehe ... nite. fleetmoose: enjoy your sony headphones :) |
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Precisely, marlowe - that's why it's bollocks to talk about people being more or less in touch with nature. We ARE nature. Korben - you gotta try these cans! MDR 7506, there's nothing like them. They mop the floor with my Grados. |
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What could the J. be I wonder? "Jack" as in "Jack Charlton"? ;) |
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Nature in its original sense = reality. To use it to describe something that primitive peoples are more in touch with is mystical and empty. It's the way Greenpeace yokels think, like when they say "chemicals" are "bad". |
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Yes, that's a very good point. |
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Yep, true - but then people use the word Nature to represent the Earth's...spirit I guess. |
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Spirit? Not really - scientists and other non-superstitious types use the word "nature", so it doesn't necessarily have that implication. I think it's generally used to describe matter that entered a particular state without human intervention. The thing is, why do we see modern Western civilization as less in touch with nature than other cultures (like the Yanomami) that seem to know far less about it? If we know more than them about Nature by virtue of centuries of culturally transmitted observation and reason, are we not more in touch with nature than they are? I think this attitude stems from a Rousseauist romanticization of primitivism more than from a thoughtful consideration of the facts. |
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rousseauist romanticism? fleetmouse: scrap the whole nature thing (which i might add you sprinkled into the conversation :) ... all it seems is that we in general, more and more only see things as consumable goods - for the sake of consuming them. and for a large part new products are entirely useless, or impractical gadgets (in and of themselves), and only serve this social function of being able to talk about the new cellphone that takes pictures, and use it etc. etc. this to me seems a sad price to pay to remain embedded in society. of course this is exaggerating a bit, but this whole pragmatic/scientific/technological machine to a large part seems to value its pragmatic concern in light of such mindless consumerism. all i was saying was that whilst i enjoy being in this narcotic slumber most of the time, it would be nice and refreshing to step outside this, and be able to look at things (nature)? differently - but this seems more and more difficult, and that is a bit disturbing. i'm not trying to put down social activity, but there's more and more product dribble that dictates social interaction. people work more so they can buy more useless stuff, have less time to talk about more products - mm... i am aware of making it seem rather bleak - but there you go. |
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There is a certain fashonable leftist hysteria that is addicted to viewing-with-alarm and sees any economic activity or technological progress as evidence of socio-psychological dysfunction. Fuck that shit. I like my palm pilot! For years I've wanted something that does exactly what it does - keep me organized. The problem is, all these modern conveniences save us so much time that we take it for granted that gratification is instantaneous, and though we may have more leisure time and socializing time than any generation before us, it feels like less due to our sense of entitlement. |
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leftist hysteria ... nice. i don't mean to point out that its disfunction, ab-normal, un-natural or anything like that ... and maybe i am being a bit hysterical. entitlement seems like a good point. but just like the more news you watch, the more topical the war or whatever becomes - it seems the more media and advertising envelops oneself, the more topical products become. that's pretty self-evident, but with an ever more pervasive media, products start dominating in a similar fashion discussion about the war is (although fading now) influenced by media coverage. thus inviting the paranoid thought that a large amount of products are chosen due to such influences ... fuck i sound like a leftist twat. retail therapy will cure all ! |
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I think the only fulfillment can come from creation - making songs, making babies, making furniture, making pies. |
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there we go :) there's a bit of marxist scum in all of us, hehe. aside: seems that a growing number of jobs have a non-creative aspect to them (data entry, sales)? it is a bit of an overused cliche ... but yeah ... |
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Pfffft. People who create things of value tend to be free-market libertarians, not commies. The commies are the ones who can't produce anything anyone would ever want, so they get stuck in data entry or salesclerk jobs and spend their time fantasizing about turning the tables on their betters. Unfortunately there are so many of these oafs that occasionally they elect a "liberal" who raises tax rates in the misguided belief (or cynical posturing) that wealth can ever be redistributed, rather than simply created. |
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dude man, i'm no commy, nor a free-market liberterian ... just using the metaphorical qualities of the marxist labour and alienation concept is all. |
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I am glad you are not a commie korben dallas. |
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so a free-market liberterian pie is more valuable than a communist pie? your notion of value is already market-driven notion .. i empathise with the "commies" wanting to turn the tables - although it wouldn't achieve anything, but perpetuate this table toppling exercise. this desire of fantasy makes as much sense as the people on top of the table getting all defensive and ruling out the bottom table as useless talentless social misfits. |
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desire or fantasy ... |
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