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lllllloooollllllll |
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someones "in the mood" |
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America must be destroyed, the sooner the better |
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b0nk, Thought you were replying to me and didn't realise you were replying to Loggie. My mistake. :-) |
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Monoid, Not if American can get to you first loony. |
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dont worry about it hehe |
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america sucks be sure about that and maybe you have to be european to understand it perfectly... youcant be an american talking shit against your superstar country... but it sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OOOOHHHHHHHHHHH YESSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......... |
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i can easily talk shit about my country if necessary :) |
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The deaths of so many innocent people makes me upset, no matter what the intention was... |
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its terrible what happened but i dislike a lot how US is reacting after 9/11 |
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Killing people is wrong and even though Bin Laden had his reasons, he could organize and protest other ways... it DOES NOT justify killing innocent people, and there is no justiying killing. Killing is wrong, people should stop trying to justify it, the american goverment, iraq, and whoever else did/does it..... killing is wrong, simple as that. |
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I'm just replying to an earlier post....Yes, i believe we are hated by a great deal of people around this world. I can not blame them for this. Life on this planet is all about control. Eventually america may not exist anymore...and a new power will emerge or be held by a group of nations or individuals. Either way, the people that stood up to us will adopt a new way of life/existance. In time their way of life will be questioned the same way ours has been...thus starting this unending process again...and cause another form of revolution 9-11 is a big deal to me, more of a wake up call, but i think that its only the begining of many bad things to happen to us. Not to be pesimistic. but it is the truth. I remember when i was scared of nuclear war when i was little...and now again that same feeling fills my stomach for some reason. but i no longer worry...b/c it is out of any one persons control, just the elected fools that will in one way or another destroy a way of life that i have always lived...and loved at times |
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This pretty much sums up my feelings too. promo, no I don't condone the atrocities of 9/11, but at the same time america gets away with it's own atrocities, but has managed to cover them up or politically "justify" them. Korean War for example. Far more than 3000 innocent civilians were killed and it was put down to "collateral damage". But hey lets face it most countries have committed atrocities in their history, including UK. B0nk, yes I got that stat from an internet news page, but we're all the victims of propaganda from our governments |
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Loogie, So is there any modern war which does not risk civilian casualties? Of course the American's always aim to avoid civilian casualties especially with modern technology whereas Saddam Hussein tries to put civilians in front of or around military targets. |
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For fucks sake Saddam Hussein was supplied by the Americans with weapons of mass destruction. He was reelected by his own people who support him 100% and will keep supporting him as long as the US and UK continue trade sanctions against them and threatening them with war. After all the average Iraqi cannot get access to medicine such as aspirin because it just might used to make a chemical weapon. 500,000 Iraqis have died in this war which has been going since 1991 where they have repeatedly bombed by US and UK planes hitting their power and water supplies. where is the CIA trained OSama Bin Laden now? |
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As for North Korea. They were making diplomatic efforts to improve relations with South Korea and Japan. The US stalled food aid to North Korea last year to which the North Koreans have responded that if the US are to place sanctions on their country they are prepared to go to war. Why should they not defend themselves and feed their people. The US acquitted two of their miltary personnel who ran over 2 little South Korean school girls which is an outrage. |
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yeah, its bad, course it is, and I have no problems with the way the US has handled it... it is only *so* distressed because this has never happened to 'them' before.... we (rest of the world) have become de-sensitised to stories of such acts - perhaps we should be *more* annoyed, not America less.... Red: "He was reelected by his own people who support him 100%" only on pain of death... quick facts.... The US is setting up a nuclear base as we speak in eastern europe (IIRC).... no worries there? Clinton threatened Saddam not to use chemical weapons on gulf war soldiers or he'd nuke him..... Saddam did... Clinton didn't... where's the deterrent now???? US administration is shiting itself now... it knows it cannot win a war like this - there is no enemy.... where do you bomb if Risin wipes out all of Manhatten? even if you did, what good will it do??? not much methinks... :/ |
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Do you honestly think saddam hussein is some great statesmen? i mean do you think theres economic sanctions for fun? He could easily go out of his way to please the americans and comply with them if only to protect his people which he cares for so much.. yea ok? why not just say hey my people are dieing i better negotiate with the US and find a way to feed my people. instead he uses the enormous amount of cash he gets from oil to strengthen is military- you mean to tell me he cant support his people?hes sure living in a palace- now his people support him? yea our of fear, if they talk out against them they dissappear- hes murdered his own citizens- who elect him because hes the only person on the ballot in an election which is filled with fraud. give me a brake |
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As for Afghanistan they justified killing 10,000 afghans and placed a puppet government headed by an oil company executive where previously had been providing funding to the Taliban government who had complied with their War on Drugs destroying opium fields. They were invited to to a Texas oil company party but were offended and threw the oil company out of their country. They planned to invade Afghanistan from July 2001 b4 Sept 11 They liberated the people alright and continue to do so by dropping cluster bombs with mines that are similar to the food parcels intended for aid. They provided aid to one afghan woman by dropping a container bearing food on her home and killed her. There are much human rights violations going on in Cuba where they taking innocent people from their homes in Afghan and forcing them to live in inhumane conditions. Wake up a whole race of people are being witch hunted... |
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I'll never forget it... it's the context really... a peaceful, urban center like New York all of a sudden is interupted by a plane flying into a skyscraper... that's strange, not something you see everyday... and it's definitely tragic... Columbine was the same with me... I was deeply affected by the columbine massacre thing... yes there are other school shootings, but with columbine it was almost live... and that was strange as well... I remember seeing the kid climbing out the window... CNN definitely covered that TOO much... but dammit I remember being so frightened that it would happen here... it's just that fact that we saw 9/11... we saw the planes actually flying into the buildings... when you see something, it sticks with you and leaves a great impression then when you just read a statistic in a magazine or news paper... |
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Then why did the US supply him with weapons in the first place so he could attack Iran and the people of his country voted for him not me. Are the US the god police or should they stay out of other peoples backyards and learn fair trade like the other countries such as Russia, Germany and others were doing at a World Trade fair held in Iraq early 2002. |
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thing with 911, its not about the ideals or our government or foreign policy, its that close to 3000 people died who had nothing to do with foreign policy. they were jsut hardworking people, yes they elected the president/govt etc but they were just hardworking people, murdered. bringing up past events that the US is responsible for or claiming we are the biggest terrorists may give reasons to why it happened but doesnot justify it. People died, they shouldnt have been punished and it doesnt justify osama bin laden or any terrorist. look at leaders such as gandhi who accomplished many great things without using force, and look how he was rewarded, its sickening. but nonethe less he shows what is possible. |
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If you havent seen it Funkmaster do go and see Mike Moores "Bowling for Columbine" which I thought was a really empowering experince for the victims of Columbine and drew interesting comparsions with the US and Canada and Europe. I think people are really led by the media into a 'climate of fear' therefore really believe they are potential victims. |
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if the Us stayed out of affairs we would then be blamed for what we as a superpower dont do, its a no win situation. ever occur to you why those countries are against the war in iraq? only becuase they stand to lose all the money they are investing in iraq, they can care less about the Iraqi people. |
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Exactly b0nk Brains rather than bron Non violence That is whats going change things for the better in the long run |
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It doesnt justify attacking another country where the population are already suffering from 27 years of war and impoverisation. Afghanistan was a country that had Kabul which was considered to be the Paris of the East. Osama Bin Laden is a by-product of the american CIA who yes probably are the worlds biggest terrorist organisation as they are the ones with the intell and the capacity to set up and train terrorists to attack their own county. If people are not paranoid then big business isnt making any money, no kickbacks for your government. Bush Senior was an advisor for the Bin Laden family so I would be pointing the finger right at him. |
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we need to find other ways of producing energy and move away from oil.. that would solve probably 85% of the worlds problems really.. |
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The problem is that now the administration of Russia collapsed there is really one only superpower which has access to all the intell of scientists, miltary planners, propogandarists, every kind of little nasty thing you could ever imagine. I mean that whole campaign for a One World goverment has never really gone away. I disagree that the countries dont care about the people of Iraq and yes they have money invested but what does that have to do with the US who also will attack Iran when the opportunity presents itself as they have a state owned oil company and that's not good for big business. |
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Yes that's true, however a little conspiracy theory here is that the oil companies tend to buy out the patents and shelve them or kill off the inventors :) A local chappie here invented a fuel that cars could run on manure. I hate to think what that would have done to the atmosphere, but water would be cool. |
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there has to be some sort of standard of living that these countries are brought up to where there would be no need for some super powers to rule the world, everyone would be equal, however long that would take if even possible is not even thinkable in todays times |
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I have been in countless discussions at school and online about 9/11 and about America wielding around its power like an ax. America has problems, definatly loads. But I would be hard pressed to believe that other countries dont, look at the world. And what b0nk said, America is the superpower as of now, if american foriegn policy tries to help people, and when it ocasionally suceeds and does good things, it never gets talked about, hardly ever, media ALL around the world usually just looks at the negative side of America. I wish the global media would look at achievements as well as the fumbles. Did you know that the Regan administration made most south american countries convert from a dictator ship sociaty, to a market structured goverment? Yet no one ever talks about THAT, that we gave aid to afgan refugee's and supplied food. It IS a no win situation, if we help or just provide no aid at all, no one is ever going to be happy. There is corrutption in loads of goverments, not just the U.S's Economists should design or amend a new market structure, that would be interesting If your going to point fingers, point it at all of the economic structures (mainly just 4) which have been developed and look how the world is run and what drives it, because there lies the problem. I dont think any of them really work. Some better then others, but all have problems which usually deal with the middle and lower class of sociaty |
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yea even here a lot of people are against Bush opening our oil reserves in Alaska which would make us less dependent on opec, and help our own economy yet they oppose the war in Iraq as well, everything is just FUCKED no matter which way u look at it, theres never a solution which wil make everyone happy |
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I find it sad though that there is a significant amount of evidence that Osama Bin Laden has organized and carried out millions of horrible attacks on the world, but when it happened to America, Americans pointed the finger at Osama, and people point it back at America, denouncing the fact that 3000 innocent people died, saying oooo you had it coming, you devised it, you deserve it. No one deserves it. Not one of the people killed in New York had anything to do with the goverments foriegn policy. And people say, ooo well you voted and put the war munger in office. But fact is, the PUBLIC VOTE was for Al Gore, the ELECTORAL COLLEGE chose Bush. In any case there is no justifying the killing of 3000 people And then people say, oooo america the EVIL capitalist sociaty, that evil no good market driven sociaty....... fact is, if you didnt live in a market driven sociaty, you wouldnt have the luxuries of such things as: being able to start your own company, being able to hear music from independant record labels, to be able to have a variety of products and goods to choose from everyday, to be able to spend your money on things you REALLY want and not just what is availible or what the goverment provides. I think that is very funny and hypocritical to see people on here who live in a market driven sociaty complain about it. Try living in China or Korea for a while, then you might think differently about complaining |
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Well actually China has a socialist styled structure now, but buinesses and corperations alike are still owned by the goverment... So I guess I should say, try living in Iraq, Cuba or Korea (north or south... doesnt matter) before you complain about a market based economy. I have a good laugh though when people complain about free market economy, ala thread, its all so hypocritical seeing the kiddies use products that free market created (IBM, Apple, Dell, Gateway... and so on) and having the luxuries that the market sociaty (music that we purchase and apprieciate everyday) produces. I get a good laugh at that |
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9-11 was inevitable cuz some people made sure it was inevitable. go to hell bush!!!!!! |
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and war is inevitable? |
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It doesnt have to lead to war, it never should because being non violent is always an option I think the killing of 3000 people could have been avoided. |
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3000 people = collateral damage Cant you see that those were directly the victims of US govt foreign policy and why is that 10,000 afghan lives weigh far less on the consience than 3000 americans. Or 500,000 iraqis whilst most of you stuck close to your tvs. At work a tv was set up in a central area where the gulf war was shown in its full sickeining gory glory much to my disgust as we had had a new computer operator starting who came to NZ from Iraq. In the 1980's all of Regan administrations work in the South Americas amounted to no more than dethroning democratically elected left leaning leaderships and replacing them with dicators bought with CIA's cocaine slush funds and then those governments were indebted with impossible to repay loans and terms from the World Bank. A common story in many countries the US has offered aid to i.e. Indonesia was the first model and most successful test case that they keep seekiing to repeat the world over. |
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New Zealand has a socialist left wing party in power as does France and Germany. Socialism is not quite the boggeyman that the Republicans keep making it out to be. |
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"In the 1980's all of Regan administrations work in the South Americas amounted to no more than dethroning democratically elected left leaning leaderships and replacing them with dicators bought with CIA's cocaine slush funds and then those governments were indebted with impossible to repay loans and terms from the World Bank" If you think they were elected "democratically" then somethings wrong with you..... Conspiracy theorists are fun to talk to Your a cute lil monkey... yes you are.. such a cute little monkey *pets cute monkey* :*) Killing is killing and its wrong monkey Now come here so I can pet you some more |
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"New Zealand has a socialist left wing party in power as does France and Germany. Socialism is not quite the boggeyman that the Republicans keep making it out to be." Yup |
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Cant you see that killing is killing monkey, and that its all wrong? Its sick that you refer to it as collateral damage. Are you that desensitized to just think of people like that? America, Iraq, whoever... killing is wrong. No killing monkey, no no *shakes finger at monkey* no killing monkey, no |
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A list of a few of the american supported south american dicators now safely residing in America: El Salavador's general Jose Guillermo Garica who was responsible for the deaths of thousands by death squads. Resided safely under US protection in Florida in the 90's. The successor General Carols Vides Casanova is also safely tucked away in Florida. The Haitian dictator General Prosper Avril was flown safely to Florida by the US government once he was overthrown his death squad leader Emanuel Constant now lives in NY. Chilean Armando Fernedez Larios responsible for much torture and execution following the overthrow of Salvador Alende also lives in Miami Argentine Admiral Jorge Enrico lives in Hawaii infamous for the 'dirty war' in the 70's. School of Americas was responsible for 40% of cabinet ministers who serve in the genocidal regimes of Lucas Garica Riosmontt and Majia Victores in Guetamala *killing is killing and its wrong monkey I guess that 10,000 afghans dont weigh as heavily on your conscience as only 3000 americans |
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re collateral damage I was being ironic as those 3000 dead have given more mileage and "moral" right to wrek genocide to the Bush Administration. As Dick Cheney said it was the opportunity of the ages, as war was declared on 50 other countries in the name of those innocent victims. |
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"I guess that 10,000 afghans dont weigh as heavily on your conscience as only 3000 americans" As I said monkey: killing is killing its ALL wrong, you dont seem to grasp the concept well And have you by chance taken a look at what El Savador and Hati history before the US interviened. As they have always been supressed ... to put it lightly. |
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Early History to Independence of Haiti The island of Hispaniola was inhabited by the Arawaks prior to the arrival of Columbus in 1492. Disease, ill treatment, and execution by the Spaniards decimated the Arawaks, who gave Haiti ( “land of mountains” ) its name. While establishing plantations in E Hispaniola (now the Dominican Republic), however, the Spanish largely ignored the western part of the island, which by the 17th cent. became a base for French and English buccaneers. Gradually French colonists, importing African slaves, developed sugar plantations on the northern coast. Unable to support its claim to the region, Spain ceded Haiti (then called Saint-Dominque) to France in 1697. Haiti became France's most prosperous colony in the Americas and one of the world's chief coffee and sugar producers. The pattern of settlement took the French south in the 18th cent. and society became stratified into Frenchmen, Creoles, freed blacks, and black slaves. Between the blacks and the French and Creoles were the mulattoes, whose social status was indeterminate. When French-descended Creole planters sought to prevent mulatto representation in the French National Assembly and in local assemblies in Saint-Dominque, the mulattoes revolted under the leadership of Vincent Ogé . This rebellion destroyed the rigid structure of Haitian society. The blacks formed guerrilla bands led by Toussaint L'Ouverture , a former slave who had been made an officer of the French forces on Hispaniola. When the English invaded Haiti in 1793 during the Napoleonic Wars, Toussaint maintained an uneasy alliance with the mulatto André Rigaud and cooperated with the remnant of French governmental authority. In 1795, Spain ceded its part of the island to France, and in 1801 Toussaint conquered it, abolished slavery, and proclaimed himself governor-general of an autonomous government over all Hispaniola. Napoleon sent his brother-in-law, Gen. Charles Leclerc , with a huge punitive force to restore order in 1802, but he wa |
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but he was unable to conquer the interior. A peace was negotiated, and Toussaint, taken by trickery, died in a French prison; but the revolt continued and forced the French troops, already ravaged by yellow fever, to withdraw. The rebels received unexpected aid from U.S. President Thomas Jefferson, who feared that Napoleon would use Saint-Dominque as a base to invade Louisiana. In 1804, Haiti became the second nation in the Western Hemisphere, after the United States, to win complete independence. The Struggles of Nationhood After independence the remaining French and Creoles were expelled, and Jean-Jacques Dessalines , an ex-slave, proclaimed himself emperor. His assassination (1806) led to the division of Haiti into a black-controlled north under Emperor Henri Christophe and a mulatto-ruled south under President Alexandre Pétion . After their deaths Haiti was unified by Jean Pierre Boyer , who also brought (1822-44) Santo Domingo under Haitian control. Seeking to indemnify French planters, Boyer brought financial ruin to Haiti; he was exiled in 1843. Haiti's last emperor (1847-59) was Faustin Soulouque . Since the end of his reign, the country has been a republic. Political and social conflict persisted, intensified by the mulatto-black hostility, and Haiti's economy, which had never recovered from the violent struggle for independence, declined further. After the dictator Guillaume Sam was killed in a popular uprising in 1915, the United States, troubled over its property and investments in the country and fearing Germany might seize Haiti, took the opportunity to invade Port-au-Prince. The Haitian congress was forced to accept an agreement permitting U.S. control over customs receipts; two years later the resident American naval commander dissolved the congress and dictated a new constitution. Although financial and general material progress advanced under American military occupation, Haiti protested against U.S. violation of its sovereignty, and a U.S. Senate investigation in 192 |
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in 1921 found that the avowed purpose of preparing Haiti for responsible self-government had been ignored. In 1930 a U.S. presidential commission recommended that Haiti be allowed to elect a legislature that would, in turn, name a president. Sténio Vincent, a vocal opponent of U.S. military occupation, was chosen by the legislators. The marines were finally withdrawn in 1934, although U.S. fiscal control was maintained until 1947. |
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copy and paste = fun yay busting out the whole history eh? haha Fact is there are problems within any nation. America is getting the most attention as it is a superpower. And there is no justifying killing, no matter who does it, america, iraq, whatever. And when you try and diminish the value of peoples lives with politics its wrong wiether its the US or iraq or who ever. Most people in this world are just trying to survive and make a living, its sad to see innocent people suffer. But you cant justify killing people red, no matter which way you slice it (whoever it may be from whatever country) |
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with a little help from a friend :0 Of course I dont justify killing anyone without due cause, I mean from Chris Rock "Instead of gun control you need bullet control. 5000 dollars a bullet. Then you can say I am going to kill ya mutherfucka, I am gonng geta job, in fact 2 jobs, and I am going save up $5000 dollars and a put a cap in your arse" I mean that I am really tired of this Sept 11 shit as our government is being approached on the pretext of free trade and is being asked to support a war on Iraq, something which really we have no reason to get involved in. The media tried the nuclear issue as we dont allow US nuclear ships into our harbours with support from the Employers/Manufacturers Federation. I think that the 'climate of fear' that is widely promoted in the US and around the world through agencies such as Voice of America stinks and I welcome the world becoming a less stressed place. As far as govt-owned enterpises are concerned much of my early working life has turned upsidedown with Rogernomics (similar to Reganomics and Thatchernomics) where I worked for government departments and had to rely on trade unions to assert my job security and basic workers rights. I hated the selloff of state-owned enterpises and the mass redundancies that would follow. |
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