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 Now online (1)belb ...and 138 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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No, my personal standpoint is - you do what you have to. You need to survive so make it happen. Even if it means turning to a life of crime - as long as you know for sure you can get away with it. Just try to avoid hurting people ya know. But eventually the current system will fail, I'd just be nice to make it happen in our lifetimes. sirmailbox - Yes we know work is necessary and there are alternatives (that don't include hunting & gathering). There are enough resources on this planet to clothe and feed every person but people need power over others to make themselves feel better... its a major human flaw. No? |
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There's a documentary I watched this year about a tribe in India, the "ladaki" or something like that. It's about how a horizontally (versus hierarchical) society functions, but also a big part of it was showing what a no "work" society really is, dismissing the immediate assumption that a lot of people make; that it's a life of pain and work and misery. And I think tolstoyed has the right idea about how we should talk about this. We should whine about it, it's not going to change any time soon, so the only thing we can to is whine about it and argue our points until eventually someone might understand and whine about it too. |
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you know, some people envy me slightly i don't have to work at the moment..i wonder why that is. i suppose most people are lazy. and there's nothing wrong with being lazy really..or is there? ecept that it isn't socialy acceptable.. and im no philosopher, just a realist :D also i thought you were a little different kind of person..now im not so sure anymore :) |
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Laziness is the source of all virtue. |
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eat your heart out, people. resistance is by the way, not trying to add fuel to the fire, but i just think everybody should have the opportunity to read this. lots of good points being made. not by me, but that was never my intention. oh dear i'm leaning heavily towards escapism it seems. <3 my head feels like a frisbee. |
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"you know what most illenesses in the western society are connected to nowdays?" I guess you're talking about stress..? that would say more about how our western society approaches work, not so much work itself. there are also a lot of psychologists who will say that people actually become happier because they regularly work - it's not the only ingredient for some form of happiness, but an important one anyway. |
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"that would say more about how our western society approaches work, not so much work itself. " exactly, yeah. "there are also a lot of psychologists who will say that people actually become happier because they regularly work" im sure there are people like that. i like to do something creative here and there as well, i just don't want my life to revolve around it. |
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oh COME ON MAN. 'a lot of psychologists say..' so because some people SAY 'people can get happy from having structure and regularity' you take this as a given fact? 'everyone go to work! it will make you HAPPY (or at least contribute to it) if you go regularly!' well if psychologists say it, it's probably true.. have you ever noticed what happens when you go out of this structure? dont you feel the guilt? the nagging question 'shouldnt i be going back to work?' This is bad. Christ.. even I let myself be almost convinced by a colleague who claims that once you're in the rhythm, a flow of energy will come from within you. 'work is wonderful' she says. Sure. It's wonderful to do your job well and get the recognition for it, but it's still completely and utterly USELESS because we did not come to this planet to sell books, work in a car factory, sell insurance to people, defending someone else's 'rights' as a lawyer etc. I personally believe that we're here to evolve and be part of a natural process; the expansion of consciousness which should be a free and natural thing. This is not compatible with going to work everyday where you will be doing the same thing over and over again, for a cause that is unknown to you. It isnt about money, or freedom, or respect or whatever. it is about being prepared for death without clinging on to material desire and 'work' prevents you from letting go of desire completely. i'm in way over my head. i do realize this. click. |
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perhaps you should read: Csikszentmihalyi, Mihaly (1990). Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience. seriously |
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perhaps. millions of books to read. wish i could read them all. if i should read that book, i will find it when it is time. |
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I personally believe that we're here to evolve and be part of a natural process; the expansion of consciousness which should be a free and natural thing. This is not compatible with going to work everyday where you will be doing the same thing over and over again, for a cause that is unknown to you. i'm just curious, but what would you do if you didn't "have" to work? what would you consider as "being part of a natural proces" and expanding your consciousness? those are rather abstract concepts. i'm wondering what those things would mean in practice. |
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Of course people CAN get happy from having structure and regularity. Not all people will, of course. Tolstoyed: not as different as you, obviously. And happy with it ;P |
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a poor excuse it is but i have to inform you that i've tested the limit of my 'thought processing' pretty extensively and excessively last night and i now fully realize i'm not able to communicate in a clear, logical way. let see what i can squeeze out. i know they are abstract concepts but when i'm in a certain mindset, and i wish i could get to this mindset by meditation and/or yoga, but i can't (yet),there is only truth in 'just being'. last night on a pretty powerful dose of psilocybin i came to certain insights as always, which are absolute truth at that moment when the ego is dissolving. my self destructive behavior is something that comes from the inability to let go of my ego (this is a struggle for all of humanity). all of these concepts are just thoughts i'm projecting and typing on a messageoard because i'm stuck again, looking for an answer which isn't there. while your question regarding 'what would you do' is very interesting, it's simply impossible for me to answer. I know i'm part of this culture/system/society and i can not think outside the box because i AM this culture/system/society like everyone else who is born in it, yet i want to escape from it. You have to understand 'work' is just an invention. It didn't come from nature, not from space, not from anywhere but the trapped mind of people who are desperately trying to find a reason for existence. i'm not saying i think i can change the system but 'something' is telling me to do it anyway. it's cool. i have to think like this. |
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interesting. but to continue my question. try to ignore the system for a minute. let's say you're completely independent from the rest of the society. imagine you have no obligations whatsoever. what would you do if you were in that situation? would you live life like a zen-budhist would? would you spend your life making music? what would life look like? and try to be as specific as possible, as in avoid abstract concepts as being one with nature. if you can answer that question, i think you have much more sense of what your goals in this life would be. or atleast, from your posts i get the impression that this is lacking in your current situation. the psilocybin being a temporary medicine for that lack. creating images and feelings of having a goal and being one with nature. those images can be a great source of creativity, and perhaps you can find answers in them, but realise they're nothing more than images. temporary images. and with or without a society, there'll always be a thing called reality to deal with. again, this is just my impression |
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all i know is that i greatly admire zen-budhists. why? i dont know. you've given me food for thought. i think your impressions are very true. i'll get back to you on this. thanks |
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no thanks. be sure to get back when you do have the answers. |
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same technique used in religions of all size, sects and dictatorships. replacing ideas with slogans. proves how the guy has no point. you don't need that kind of tools to convince when you're actually right. |
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can you give a simple reason why you think you are right? why working is the right thing to do? |
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don't be stupid |
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it's not stupid at all..if we have to explain why work is unneccessary in a way we know it, you could at least tell why you think different. the only reason i see here is that it's a common thing to do and we just do it for some reason. any when you were talking it would all come down to masters and servants..is it any different in the capitalist system we've got now? social comfort is just little something masters provide so they keep people like you happy. anyway, how old are you? |
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But surely there are lots of things that are nessacary that people wouldn't do without being paid? |
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there are also a lot of psychologists who will say that people actually become happier because they regularly work - it's not the only ingredient for some form of happiness, but an important one anyway. There have been studies to prove that repetitive tasks - such as driving the same route everyday, to go into the same building and sit at the same desk and make meaningless conversation with the same people everyday - actually contributes to an unhealthy brain. Your brain needs new stimuli once in a while to stay healthy. I can vouch for this first hand after doing the same thing for 3 years. Not only was I becomming depressed but even co-workers who I thought were my friends all eventually decided to leave me because everyday I was too negative about everything. Once I quit - it was the same experience that tolstoyed seemed to describe - utter bliss. I was so much happier and I felt like a great wieght being lifted off my shoulders. Everything looked brighter and life itself was a pleasureable thing rather than a chore to deal with. |
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I'd also like to take time out to say that big businesses would actually be very very awesome and cool if they were run properly. But in this world they only run for one reason - profit. And not for the workers who keep them running. Just profit for those at the top and it's really fucking sad. |
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You need to grow up, get your hair cut and stop talking like a wet hippy. |
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harsh |
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It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it that gets results. |
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8 ) |
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tolstoyed knows. weatheredstoner knows. |
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lol |
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boycot work as a concept? who´s going to suffer the consequences of that protest? since we're born into a certain system i have decided to work with something i'm really interested in, instead of not working at all. to spare myself from the ordeal of not having a job, money, turning into a couch potato etc. plus i get to do what i want to do all the time. |
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we surely all seek truth....is it not, therefore, that we work to find meaning? no matter how mundane in the beginning stages....we do whatever we need to do to get at the truth to then reveal it. |
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You should say that in a deep echoey voice, maybe down a used toilet roll tube. |
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haha ha ha ha ha ha, I'm glad I came back to this thread |
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