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 Now online (2)steve mcqueen Roger Wilco ...and 386 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Fine, i have taken a pen and amended the following definitions in my dictionary, under the word Artist I have put "Anyone who decides to call themselves as such", Art I have defined as "Anything at all, it doesn't have to be special or unique, just as long as you like it". I erased Amateur and Professional as they are worthless terms with no meaning, from now on everyone is simply "Special". |
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ok, db, good luck with your program of all consuming self righteousness... |
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I do think it's the rather popular view (that enjoyed a recent revival in the 90s) that everyone is "special" and "unique" that is to blame for a lot of very mediocre painters, poets and musicians all taking themselves far too seriously. If you tell your kids they're great and special and everything they do is fantastic, of course they'll have an over-inflated sense of self worth and this will reflect in their opinions of anything they create. It's also probably the reason why some people get so shitty at criticism, even when it is worded politely (I'm sure you've seen the, "It's meant to be like that", "You just don't get it", "That's not a mistake, it's intentional" responses to quite reasonable criticism). |
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my "mp3 label" contains "musicians" who put out "releases". does my terminology meet the high standards of dog_belch? i sure hope it does. i made the site for him! |
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'Zebra, look i know i've gone on about this a bit too much... I agree with you on certain points, my only concern is things get devalued to a point where they become meaningless. I am probably wrong, but unless someone was working in a professional capacity as an artist, or devoted a very significant part of their time and energies in that field, regardless of ability, then they shouldn't call themselves an artist. The only exception is someone who is ball-numbingly talented, who is then, to my mind a natural artist. I don't wish to tell people what they can and can't call themselves, call yourself what you like. I am just telling you, without CAPS, what a detrimental effect that has on me, someone calling themself an artist. Probably because I am a failed one. |
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Well I make my music currently for fun and possibly in the future I will take a more professional approach. For now the only fun I get out of it is having others listen to my tracks. |
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Ceri JC said exactly all what I wanted to say in a far shorter post than my rambling, incoherent bollocks. |
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dog_belch, unfortunately basically all people are pretentious in a huge variety of ways. Notice that 90% of human dilemmas can be boiled down to people taking themselves too seriously (wars fit this ticket especially well). Conflict can be a good way to synthesize opposing views, but more judgement should usually be practiced beforehand determining whether there is a point. There are arrogant and humble people in all walks of life, stupid people in all, etc etc. |
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I can't tell if you're agreeing with me, or calling me a cunt in a very round about way. Either way it has taught me to lighten up and hey, people are people so, you know, go with the flow. And for that I salute you, a lesson to us all. |
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Actually I always like your posts, and I hate how everyone in the world thinks they're so great, so I definitely agree with you; sorry if it seemed I was being a cunt or lecturing you.. [continued in private email] |
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i believe meaning is something we make, not something that "is." so i can't be concerned about meaning losing "value." you seem to want everyone to agree on what is mediocre, and what is not. you seem to want quality to be an objective feature of reality, to be determined, apparently, by consensus, and you seem to want to believe that the only alternative to this perspective is to declare all works and ideas equally valid. i suppose western civilization will be wrestling with this for some time... i'm at work, however, and can't spend any more time on this discussion. it's been interesting and provocative, though. |
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They're both really respected labels, just in a slightly different scene - Got excellent advice and feedback from both though, especially Freerange.. Dance music will always be easier to break into than listening music! And it's easier to "produce" consistantly too - And as soon as you've got a name for yourself you can go and do whatever you want and people will listen. The only thing with more dance oriented scenes is that you need to have a very good understanding of the music, past and present - You really need to know every aspect of the scene intimately to stand a chance... It's probably much more important than your own musical or engineering ability. |
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"The only thing with more dance oriented scenes is that you need to have a very good understanding of the music, past and present - You really need to know every aspect of the scene intimately to stand a chance... It's probably much more important than your own musical or engineering ability." What kind of things do you mean? Things like how/why dance music became popular, common samples (just like dnb has the amen break), making tracks that are easily beat mixable etc? |
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I am glad you have gone, i can be rude to you behind your back. I think in some ways you're right, and in others NO NO NO YOU FUCKING HIPPY! Of course there's mediocre and good, what are you, a Communist? Since you like assuming what I think, i assume you think 9-11 is a valid work of art, Smojphace gets better the more you listen to it, and 12 year old DJ Dave's "wanking about with a 606" comitted to a 200th generation C-90 cassette is an "album". |
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Well it's much easier for people who come from a DJ'ing background on the whole, even though they may not be any more musically talented. The actual putting together of the tunes and getting the right sounds isn't much of an issue, because either you'll be in a studio with an engineer, or you'll just sample off other people! At least until you've gained some experience and gear and things. So it all comes down to how well you understand what direction the music's moving in - And the only way to do that well is to be an absolute geek about the whole thing! When I started out I was mainly mastering for dance music producers, and without a doubt, every singe one had such a vast knowledge of the whole electronic spectrum - You could talk Aphex Twin, early acid tracks, obscure jungle records, Detroit, everything! I think when you've been into the music for long enough you get a kind of sixth sense about where it's headed. If you imagine someone producing techno or drum & bass music who doesn't understand the scene well enough, either it'll sound instantly dated and cliched, or it'll just sound like whatever they were influenced by at the time, which, by the time the tune is released, will probably be over a year old anyway! But the big advantage is that every town and city on the planet has a few hundred thousand people going to clubs and raves and things, so all the music gets massive exposure compaired to the home listening market. |
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you say people are too quick to call themselves artists, but what you are saying is just as bad, you are at the opposite extreme. How you can sit there & decide whether people are artists or not is beyond me. Also how can you say peoples albums are of a sub standard quality & are no better than demos when (correct me if I'm wrong) SAW 85-92 by Aphex Twin ("a real artist") is an album consisting of RDJ's early work/demos etc. Would you say those tracks were well produced? I think not. It's the vibe that is so amazing on those tracks & I think the lo quality sound only adds to how amazing that album is, therefore a "professional" sounding track is not always best. |
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ha ha, now i'm glad i stopped back in after lunch. let me know when you've got your systematic quality detection machine set up, db, i've got some music about which i'm not really sure how i should feel. i just hope you have the good sense to know what is good when you see it... what if you wake up one morning to discover that for years you have embraced the mediocre? hippy? communist? so you believe that hippies and communists embody the indefensible, the unutterably wrong. you say i must agree with you, or disagree with you. i say, i neither agree nor disagree. i imagine that you determine the validity of an idea by shouting insults at it until it conforms to your expectations or leaves. no matter what anyone says, dog belch, i still value you as a unique and valid individual. *emoticon of a hippy with a handful of flowers and dog belch's favorite incense* |
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I am not saying, as you well know, that I decide who is an artist. I am saying I shouldn't call myself an artist, nor should anyone say they are "an artist" unless they fulfill my above stated, yes rather rigorous, criteria. I am sorry if that upsets you. The fact you moan about it means you are not one, not today. Maybe in the future, and I sincerely hope you will be. I see what you are saying about SAW but at the same time, we are talking about Aphex, a world recognised genius. Yes a collection of his demos are worthy of being an album, but not just any collection of demos. This is an exception.Those tracks, poorly produced, mastered of a Boots C-15 cassette whatever, sound complete, sound finished. They defined a musical legacy still echoing today. Releasing an "album" of unfinished demo track mp3s will not make you AFX, sorry. |
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I am not going to argue with you. I never said you had to agree with me, i was trying to tell you what my point was as you have got it wrong. By the way, i let me Systematic Quality Detection Machine loose on an open port of yours, and it was digitally sick in 36 million colours. |
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hmmm..... rightyo man. I'm not arsed really, we all think differently about stuff, you & I obviously see things slightly differently & I've never tried to tell you I am a genius or whatever it is that you keep ranting on about altho I do make music full time (when I'm not sleeping or chatting shit on the net that is) & have been doing for a few years (& will continue to as long as I am able) music is what I live for & what inspires me most in life (well.... lets not forget nature), music is the last thing I have to moan about. I see there is more to your issue with music than meets the eye & I think you should try to be a bit more relaxed instead of getting frustrated & negative about other peoples creativity. Peace, love & all that good stuff..................... oh, & when I said "nature" that included women obviously, women are the most beautifull things on earth.......... |
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Dude, you're right. And the thing is, i seemed to have hijacked your thread, so you should have the last say. I will just say i am not being negative on anyone's creativity, I love (some) people's music here, i just have issue with people calling themselves artists and saying they've released an album when in fact they've posted some MP3 tracks on a website. But they're just words after all, and who needs words when you have music, laughter and love? |
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Dog: you seem very obsessed with the VALUE of words.. how do you measure the value of a word? The connection between words and the thing they referr to are arbitrary at first. Then, when the words already HAVE their meaning, they aren't defined to more than what we use them for. If someone calls themselves an artist, it is a fact that they ARE an artist because the word artist doesn't really mean anything without referring to something. So.. if no-one could call themselves artist, the word artist would be obsolete, and not a word at all.. soon, all the people YOU woul call artists would be dead, and you wouldn't have any more use for the word. Where is the value in that? I think, if you are interested in semantics, you should read something by Ferdinand De Saussure. |
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Ok, so when your "album" is for sale for "five" pounds I will send you "two", ok? |
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yes. |
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interesting thread some peple here I consider them artists already I dream to be one someday (as an architect) |
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dog_: do you know electromuse? are you from chile really? |
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nac: Yes,you see it's fine for you to consider people as artists, my only (by now very boring point) was that I felt it unbecoming that some people referred to themselves as artists. But that doesn't matter anymore, just my absurd prejudice. I do know Electromuse. I am from Inglaterra but I do now live in Chile, unfortunately the other end of the country from Electromuse. |
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how about calling oneself a panda? |
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anyway... I said I consider as artists SOME but not all thanks to all for giving me this interesting reading in this boring working day |
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......i'll have to think about it. |
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how about Thad.. does he have boobs? |
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