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 Now online (2)010101 belb ...and 586 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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"today, the release date for my album, it's unlikely that you will see it in most high street shops and after the initial run it's unlikely that you will be able to order a copy even from online stores. this is because in-spite of more people having access to and apparently listening to my music than ever before, the predicted sales of the record were so low that it didn't justify the manufacture or distribution to any significant level. strange? not when you consider how hard it might be to convince any retail outlet, physical or digital, that they should try and sell something everybody could already get for free months beforehand." |
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why does it always seem so 1999 when Artists come out complaining about shit like this? i always get flashbacks of James Ulrich of metallica |
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i can understand his frustration, but imagine how much harder it is for a non established artist to get distribution these days with Mp3 trading. He's acting like its impossible to make a decent amount of money off his album. Im sorry but thats just bullshit. Hes on ninjatune records, he got hired to do a soundtrack for a splintercell game and his songs are features in 100,000 million dollar budget car commercials. The ones i feel really sorry for are the little electronic musicians out there who have no money to live off of. |
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As an extremely amateur electronic musician I think it is ironic that mp3 transfer, which has indeed helped me out quite a bit, may work against me one day. |
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free music -> no more artists -> no more music -> free nothing Nothing is free, right ? |
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It sucks, his company likely saw all of the torrents availible for the leak and said, "Hey uhh... We dont want to lose money. Most people who want your album already have it. We'll just put out a few copies on a few shelves and see how that goes, Mr. Tobin. Cya!" Really sucks!!! |
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Why did it leak, btw? |
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The label pipe had a hole in it. The plumbers didn't come in time :( Damn you, Mario. |
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It's alright Amon, I didn't download your album, and it in no way affected my decision not to buy it either, on the off chance that I saw it on a shelf. Principally this is because I find what I've heard of your music dull. I don't like the name Amon Tobin. I think you should be grateful anyone's even bothered to listen to your work. I'm sure you get money from licensing tracks out to compilations, adverts, video games etc. However, if this isn't the case, that you have no corporate customers, and that even your fan base can't be bothered to buy your album, it may be time to stop blaming everyone else, think about why no one's all that bothered, and start practicising for doing some job interviews. |
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(about half way through the topic onwards) |
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That's probably a better thread than this one. Though I didn't get Jivver's Amon Ulrich joke until now, so it's not all lost. |
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does it strike anyone that online trading could lead to socialism? assuming that other entertainment industries might fol low suit after music became absolutely free. i dont see movies or sports becom ing free any time soon but i can imagine that the overall quality of media would become better and more representative if it were provided free of charge in a society devaluing overproduction and the greed that inspires it. |
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I needs me some good old fashioned overproduction once in a while, it can be fun to indulge and listen to/watch the indulgences of others. |
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my opinion about the whole thing, there will never be "no more artists" even if music is essentially free - if you really want to do something you do it without regard to money - hence there will always be people that create art - if you are creating the art solely for the money, then yes, say goodbye to your meal ticket. On the otherside - if you like the music that you hear, you should purchase it - its just how things are - you are taking something that another person created, and also taking something that the record company releases and distributes - there is the kicker you shouldnt take something just because you can get it for free. even though amon sounds a bit whiney and sore, he does have a good point just at the end - if you like it you should support it. |
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How come some releases only leak in the week before the actual release and others months ahead? |
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The trouble is, it's hard to actually get people to listen to stuff if you're a new artist with only free music to download. People in general don't seem interested in discovering new artists, which is fair enough (we'll stick to what we know will probably be decent) but it means that with millions of new bands with a myspace pages popping up all the time, music won't be given the time it (sometimes) deserves. I couldn't get into Autechre initially, for example, but I can't deny that what encouraged me to give them time was the fact they had a few records out, were on Warp, and lots of other people seemed to like them. As record sales plunge lower and lower, I'm not sure people will bother giving new music much attention with millions of mp3s floating around cyberspace and everybody requesting listens in a virtual environment. It cheapens the music. |
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*apologies for the dreadful writing above, but I stand by the basic point..thing... |
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does anyone knew when boomkat is getting in the re-printed version of nothing? which is for free? |
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No one will buy it because it is crap. I listened to his new album and its rubbish, therefore I didn't buy it. I did buy the EP, but I'm not entirely sure why now. The point is the predicted sales are so low because the album is a load of old poo. Face it Amon, people bought supermodified because it was good. People are not going to buy the new one because it is bad... so erm yeah boo hoo torrents winge winge. make some decent music |
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i bought it (bleep/flac) and think it's great! |
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I think the overall quality will drop because somebody that has to make a living from something like music is gonna put that extra bit of effort in. 99.99999% of music is crap anyway, you need some sort of commercial system to sort out the good stuff. The average release on a label like Skam or Warp or whatever is always going to be better than the average amateur mp3. (Even though there is shit signed stuff and good amateur stuff.) But overall this is a bad thing, it may well be why innovation and general quality in music has fallen since the 90s. |
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i dunno if its piracys fault, but movie tickets cost double the amount they did in the mid 90s, that shits crazy. cd's however have somehow become cheaper, i remember they used to cost 179 nok, now you can get most of them for 129 nok. the truth is 80% of people who download everything for free are dumb as hell. just check out any torrent message board, any irc channel with warez discussion etc, most of them do not care and do not know about the consequences, they just want free stuff. another thing that pisses me off to no end is pro-piracy activism.. they don't seem to realize that a lot of money has to go into productions. especially pc game production. there are small companies that make kickass games, and then the game is pirated and SALES GO DOWN. imagine if the internet didnt exist, and you heard from your friends about the cool new game they are playing, wouldnt you buy it, if it seemed interesting? a lot more people would buy stuff if it wasnt available for free online, and nobody can or should deny that. and like someone else said, just downloading an mp3 cheapens the music. if you buy an album, go to a concert or otherwise, then the circumstances are much more unique. however, as an amateur musician i do put most of my music online for free, but thats my CHOICE, and nobody is breaking the law by downloading them. if the capitalism system is to work, then nothing should be available for free, and there should be a proper tasting system where customers can listen in advance then purchase if they like it. |
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Good stuff here. I think a result of all this will be a decline in quality in things like games, films, and music; even a few big games companies, for example, are struggling to make enough money while spewing out one shitty chart topping wrestling/football/generic-film-tie-in games. How on earth is a smaller company producing something a bit different make ends meet? So many wonderful game studios have been wiped off the map recently (mind you, I suppose that always happened...) |
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just downloading an mp3 cheapens the music so your own music put online must be very cheap too |
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*your |
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Well, what I meant was the "collector" attitude that is prevalent in many mp3 downloaders, coupled with the "easyness" of downloading music. I dunno about you but it's kind of anticlimatic to just put the torrent on dl, then put it on later, as opposed to walking down on a cold frosty morning to the record store to pick up the new autechre (for example). I also feel that I get a better sense of what the artist wanted to convey when I have an actual cover to look at, and it sets the mood more than just seeing a title an artist on oink. |
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*and |
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It's true, or at least it appears to me, that certain people hoard mp3 and gigs worth of material which they'll never listen to, and that doesn't harm the market as they wouldn't have bought a fraction of it anyway, I suppose what's wrong with that though is that these people redistributing it make it that much easier for people that might have bought something, the more discerning listener, to find it for free. The market for, let's say, IDM, is young males. As time goes on and IDM is now established as a genre like "Goth" or "Death Metal" it's another alternative "lifestyle" for teens to identify with. It's dance music AND intelligent, that long-sought after cocktail of being appearing cool and being a nerd. In general those young lads don't earn a fraction of the money required to splash out on every record they either do actually want to own, or to check out and hear or take a risk buying something unheard (god knows I wasted a lot of money on Rephlex releases that were shit and ended up in a skip when I left the country, and funny enough I've never bought one since apart from Analord and Astobotnia, I'd get the Black Devil but then again, I can't really give a fuck). To be able to legitimatly purchase a fraction of the avalanch of music that's "potentially" interesitng to this market, you'd have to be a CEO of a large financal company. The type of person who thinks Norah Jones is pushing the envelope. I SAY THIS TO ELECTRONIC MUSIC LABELS: Issue a licence, a one month, or one year licence that allows the user to download whatver they like from whatever labels are included in the scheme, like a radio license. That way, everyone gets at least a little something, and people aren't reduced to criminals just because they like to hear music. OK? And that little idea will cost you $100,000 as I could do with a fucking holiday. |
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you'd have to be a CEO of a large financal company. The type of person who thinks Norah Jones is pushing the envelope. O god, a colleague had a daughter last month and named her Norah. And yes, she's named after the artist. And whattaya know, that colleague is a hotshot business controller. It's no CEO, but he sure is financial allright. I call "lucky guess", although the world is far more predictable than i'd ever like to admit. |
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This is why I've pretty much given up trying to keep up on the "scene". I just get the certain artists I like and stick with that. Anything else is downloaded as I just can't afford to do it. RDJ MB TJ SB&RB Everyone else will have to increase their game to get on the list of people I definitely buy. |
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what the fuck is he on about though? 'Foley Room' is available online everywhere.. I picked mine up online. If record stores don't store the CD, isn't that more fault of the record store than the record company? What retarded record company would fund an artist and release, but not put it in shops? Doesn't add up.. Tobe is being a whinge is all I can gather. |
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dog_belch have you ever looked into eMusic.com..... that's their exact music retail model. You pay a certain price per month and download a bunch of tunes... it doesn't exactly add up to .99 cents a song. it's more about paying a service fee and downloading what you want.... like a music buffet. Regarding how some songs end up online just before they launch... If a record company sends out pre-releases of albums for reviewers to write about, some of these end up being encoded and shared for free. Amon is whining about something I think is irrelevant. Regardless if ppl pay for his music or not... the fact that he has listeners is something that has ALOT of value. As a brand, when he lends his name to projects that has WAY more value then whatever he thinks his music is valued at. Look at all the projects he's involved with..... he thinks they picked him cause he's good? or that he's best? THEY PICKED HIM CAUSE HE HAS A BIG AUDIENCE.... that's his real value... regardless on if they bootlegged his music or not. He's got a huge fanbase and that is worth money to someone. He's gotta refocus his value and his priorities... infact any artist with any smarts would do whatever they can to grow and sustain a fairly large audience. Cause regardless on how much they get from that audience.... the value is the access which alot of ppl will be willing to pay top dollar for in the near future. |
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I can't remember the site but it had an awesome business model. Basically, anyone can sell a track on there. However at first it sells for free. The more people buy it the more the price goes up until it reaches the max of 99cents. I think that's a great way of pricing songs. I bet it wasn't an actual site and I've just given away a fucking pimp idea. |
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That site is I was considering putting a release on there... they definitely have an odd way of retailing tunes. It'll be interesting to see how things work out for that site and if that formula will take off or not. |
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I'm so happy that art becomes free. |
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Well at least I haven't given out an idea for free :D |
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I just read an interview with Michael Capps of Epic Games where he said piracy is killing PC gaming so they're shifting their focus to console games. It's harder to pirate Blu-Ray than it is to pirate a typical PC game (for now, anyway). If you have the 600 dollar video card required to get the most out of the Unreal 3 engine, you know how Bit Torrent works. |
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i can't be arsed to fully follow this up, but i think what he means is that the record label will end up pressing less copies of his cd and putting less money toward promoting it. maybe it will be sent to less distributors too, who knows... sometimes these things can feedback into one another; where, for example, if a record store or a distributor see that there isn't going to be a decent amount of promotion, they might not order as many. and rightfully so, because, as is painfully obvious, lots of kids don't buy their music. some good points are being brought up here about the overall ambivalence of the present circumstances of music distribution. one thing i would say though, is that if you want to claim that size of audience is what matters, for example, well then please don't ever complain again about an artists "selling out" to a corporation, because in a lot of ways you are pushing artists to seek out that kind of funding... and i think that sort of rationale gives ample grounds for resentment on the part of the artist. |
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out of all fairness, writing electronic music doesnt really cut it as a job. it think its more understandable for pop artists to make a living out of music. thats because they provide the full package; performance, a face for the product and an image, all of that. the industry doesnt function on the song alone, that is unfortunately the path of the one-hit-wonder. |
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well the thing is that there is no stopping piracy, so any moral debate has no point, we're entering a new age, and if people in the music business want to remain in it, they'll have to accept it and find new ways to get rich and stop whining because there's no way they can win this battle. |
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id Software recently said the same in a Quake Wars interview. Piracy isn't ok. If it is, give out your account numbers, passwords and social security number... Leave labeled copies of your keys nailed to walls in public places... When you get stuff stolen from you, it'll be ok too. Liking music doesn't make you a criminal, braking the law does. The RIAA mafia's racket is as misleadingly "fair" as the "legality" of piracy via its anonimity and lack of penalties. |
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whether or not people pirate music, i think they should consider the ethics of supporting or not supporting artists. anyone can talk about a swing towards the socialistic in terms of free music, but if you are still spending significant dollars elsewhere (on essentials that are produced irresponsibly and other frivolous stuff) then i think it sort of rings hollow. |
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Bloody musicians, turning kids to computer crime just to feed their IDM fix. Give the kids a chance to do the right thing, MAKE NO MORE MUSIC. Just count browse your investment portfolio or sell your mum's house to property developers. |
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The issue you bring up about "IDM"'s audience is something I've thought a lot about. I think the genre has the least customer buying power of just about any genre. Well, unless you're talking about AFX releases, which will entice even the most moth ridden wallet to magically conjure up* the amount required for the next faux calfskin record holster. *ask parents |
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The open market works on supply and demand like everything else. If artists and recording studios see that there is no demand for physical CD's, they will have to either move on to the internet, or at worst stop releasing music / paying artists altogether. If you think big record labels or even small labels will invest in something that doesn't bring an income, you're wrong. :P This can be said about everything.. What if synth / sampler / music software programmers go out of jobs because nobody buys their software? What if movie studios see no valid reason to invest millions upon millions into big movies anymore? It has happened to some degree in the PC Game arena, the music and movie industry is big enough atm to keep going for a good while, but if piracy increases then it doesn't take many decades or even years for it to all fall apart. |
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yes I understand, what's your point? that mass production will die? maybe that's a good thing. as I said there's no stopping this and it is a consequence of the very same market laws. anyway as you said it if there's no demand blablabla no demand means no one wants it, so either they come up with something that makes people want to buy stuff or they come up with another way to make money. |
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or they come up with another way to make money A compulsory IDM Tax, much like the BBC TV License in Britain. |
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free mp3 dowloads would work against you more than most any other kind of artist out there.. |
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maybe it's absurd of me to say so, but i'm not so convinced that people really *know* what they want. people seldom consider the results of their consumer activities beyond themselves. |
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either way... he and every other artist out there is going to have to come up with a new way of getting ppl to be interested in what they're doing musically.... since CD sales aren't making him happy, maybe he should go into launching a brand of salad dressing... |
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