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Pauline Christianity (the Western version which "St" Paul started) is totally pagan in concept & execution; its rituals (those which aren't skewed Jewish rituals), are taken from pagan nature worshippers (as distinguished from the esoteric Hebrews who had a more Astronomical system of devotion), and explicitly from Canaanite peasant resurrection theology. To think that Yeshua (AKA Jesus El Christ) was an esoteric Jew who used the agéd Venusian cycle (which features heavily in the Old & New Testaments alike, check the dates), who had Messianic pretensions, and fucked them up so badly that it ended in the worst period of war and death for the Jews until the NAZIs cooked up a giant ashy mess of them in the 1940s. It is fitting that it is that which it claims to be against, for that is the epitaph of its entire existence. It is also fitting that it worships a totally incompetent man who led his followers to their messy deaths at the hands of the Romans (cleaned up with spin in the New Testement Gospels). ** SPOILERS AHEAD ** Jesus was born on 25th December 7 B.C.E. We know this because of the famous Star of Bethlehem, which was just the maximum phasing of the planets Mercury & Venus which occurred on the morning of that day, and very visible in the Middle East. The movements of Venus were of great importance to our earlier civilisations. John The Baptist was originally destined for the Kingship before his execution, and so Jesus reluctantly stepped in, during 36 A.D. He himself was executed later that year. He was only proclaimed as Divine in the 4th century by a minority of Roman bishops, and this led to an even more close-minded and tyrannical reign of intolerance and execution which has lasted more or less to this very day. Now when any Christian accosts you, you may rightfully say "Fuck off, Peasant", cock a snoot, and flounce with the knowledge of a job well done! |
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so i shall |
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my landlord is all christian up in this mo fo. I wonder if the pillbugs are christian. I think I'll collect my ball sweat in a vial, sell it on ebay for a million dollars as Jesus's ball sweat, then use the money to establish my own religion with myself as the next coming of christ using the ebay transaction as proof. |
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Have you read the Thomas evangelium? It might interest you. |
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Islam is very pagan aswell |
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What is "Canaanite peasant resurrection theology" exactly? Nothing turned up in a google search |
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basically i have no problem w/ Pegans or Christians. |
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By the title I though this was a Monoid thread. Was he actually born on December 25th? I thought they established that as his birth date to coincide with an existing holiday. I read somewhere that the Virgin Mary worship in the Catholic church could be the remaints of an earlier pagan virgin / goddess cult. Pretty interesting theories. |
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christianity has a trinity for a god, plus the virgin mary and countless other patrons, all the angels and saints and all that shit too. and the devil too. how the fuck can people call it monotheistic? |
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you can say that again. |
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For someone so anti-religion, you seem to allow it to play a large part in your life. |
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i agree. i don't like the fact that most everyone is who they are merely based on being reactionary to what they despise. doesn't that mean that what they so despise in reality actually controls them? but i do think the best way to defeat your enemies is to know your enemies. afterall, the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies even closer but keep your family far far away... |
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I'm not anti Religion, I'm anti Christian. It plays a large part in my life because our society's psyche is moulded by it, by its close-mindedness, its intolerance towards others. Our society is the way it is because we live in a "Christian Country", and it affects who I am and how I function within this society. Obviously, I would like to see it destroyed. |
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I think capitalism plays a larger part in modern societies psyche. You just like ranting on about Christianity :P |
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People who believe in religion have mental problems and should consult a psychiatrist. |
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There is a theory that capitalism as we know it today arose with the protestant church in which piety became more of an ideal, and in which "idle hands are the devils playground." Before this time, merchants had a hard time defending what they were doing, but after these new things, they could claim they were keeping theirs and their employees hands busy, and that their diligence in collecting what they were owed were because of a religious, pious, attitude towards their work. Surely enough, though, it isn't all as one-sided as that, but neither is it so that capitalism has somehow single-handedly affected our society; religion plays a large role as well. As for the closed-mindedness marlowe talks about, that's more or less something you find everywhere. When people face that which they cannot make sense of, they take up a defensive position. |
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christianity laid down the our core social norms and values though. |
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I'm not denying that Christianity played a large part in the foundations of modern western civilisation, I just don't believe it carries as much relevance as it used to. And to accept the masterful Mr Savage's use of speculation and supposition, delivered as fact, is as bad as blind faith following. :P Since I became a member of "The Nation Of Gods and Earths" my eyes are truly open to the world. |
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Yes, December 25th was chosen to coincide with a pagan holiday, the festival to celebreate the winter solstice, to aid the christians in recruitment. |
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I think the main problem is the sort of individualism advocated in hard capitalism: the self-made man is the single most progress-hindering idea in the world! |
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Most of what I said can be cross-checked to strengthen the validity of it, using statistical and astronomical data alongside analysis of religious texts. For instance, the importance of the planet Venus in the night sky has been in place for thousands of years; the reason being because it is the third brightest object in the night sky, and its rising and setting are closely linked to the sun's. It shines so bright that it can be seen in the daytime, and casts a shadow at night. If you look at the datings within the Old Testament (and subsequently the New Testement), you will find the following numbers occurring relatively frequently, and linked with major events. 40 days, 40 years, 480 years, and 1,440 years - these numbers are linked to the phasing of the planet Venus. The Shekinah, which is a non-periodical super-brightness of the planet Venus in conjunction with another astral body (when both are near maximum brightness in the sky), was seen as an especially potent portent for the Hebrews, and one occurred on the morning of the 25th December, 7 B.C.E., making that date very likely the birth-date of Jesus. I'm not sure what other things you see as speculative, but tell me so I can either support them or admit their speculative nature. |
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yes, most of this I know, I have been studying religion since I was about 16. I have read most of the gnostic bibles as well as the hermetic and various other books. Some regarding mysticism and other a more "realistic" approach (according to writers). I have read books concerning mary magdalene (and no not the da vinci code). Hell even the knights templar and the cathars. I have come to find that throughout history much of the story has been damaged like a horrible game of telephone. However despite all of this I cant accept the belief in nothing. I could go on about why that is but I dont think anyone would be interested and I dont wish to offend anyone. I do wish to point out however that to hate christians because of there close minded attitude or their unacceptance of other people, sounds like your getting mad at them for what you are doing yourself (meaning hating a group for hating). I understand how you could disagree with christian thought but to say that you wish it destroyed is a bit hypocritical? Of course Mr Marlowe I have always respected your opinion (except for when Im drinking apparently) but hate is never a good thing. |
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So...what can we expect 5 years from now? |
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Most religions are fucked up in there own way. Mostly by Humans using it to bolster their own hate. |
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Yes humans create religion, but I think the core values of the major relgions are pretty honorable. I have no idea what is involved in Mormonisim or the Sacred Church for the God of Ralph, though. |
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I don't hate Christians for being Christian; hell my Grandmother is a Catholic & I was raised a Catholic (I was an Altar Boy). Intolerance isn't hatred, it's ignorance: and I hate ignorance (even though almost all of us are guilty of it to some extent). But intolerance/ignorance combined with force is definitely something to despise. I'm not accusing all Christians of being terribly intolerant, but there are those who use violence, intimidation, and their power to ensure the continuance of their intolerance: that's where I get mad. Obviously, being Buddhistically inclined, I am always trying to quell my negative feelings towards things, but it ain't easy! We all need crutches and something to believe in. But Christians are (to me) barking up the wrong tree, and their influence on society over the centuries has been mostly negative, mostly destructive. After all, they do worship a minor Hebrew storm god, a god who enjoys a nice slice of destruction, sacrifice, and war. So, George W Bush is certainly the perfect worshipper of the Christian Godhead. |
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The date of 25th was chosen by in the 4th century from a list of proposed dates, it was most likely chosen so that persecuted Christians (it was largely an outlawed practice) at the time would be able to celebrate without it being too obvious as the winter solstice celebrations were openly practiced. Let's not forget the gospels were written long after Jesus' life and it does appear bits were 'filled in' by referencing out of the old testament. I mean you seem to have completely ignored other indications. Matthew states he was born under the reign of Herod the Great who died in 4BC. Luke states he died shortly after the 15th year of of Tiberius Caesar who became emperor in 14AD. Also given the information given about the birth of John it is much more likely that Jesus' birth took place in the mid to latter part of September in approximately 4BC. |
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Yeah, I know that the 25th December seems to have been an arbitrary decision: yet it seems, that whatever they based it on (commonly thought to be connected to a pagan midwinter celebration, festival of Mithras), it seems that they obviously had a seemingly quite accurate source. The determination for the other dates are mostly non-Canonical Gospel. As you said, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John were written well after his death, and shouldn't be taken "as gospel". But even within these are strong indicators of the conditions surrounding his birth & death, and there are all the other Qumran/Old Testament texts which add further depth. In the Gospel of John, it says "Thou are not yet fifty years old." (8:57). If Jesus was barely thirty years of age, why would this be said? It would make sense if Jesus was nearer the fifty mark, and the Hebrew tradition of a King beginning his reign aged 40 (and often ruling for 40 years) would suggest that Jesus, conscious of the prophecies and traditions, would adhere closely to them to make a greater claim of his Kingship. Both Josephus (who was in the Jewish War AD66) and the early church Father Irenaeus, believed Jesus to have been in his early 40s when crucified. Plus, Pilate was in power from AD26 to AD 36, and Jesus was executed near the end of his reign. Also, Josephus, who provides one of the more complete accounts, puts John the Baptist's death at between 35 and 36 AD. So, even if you believe Jesus was born in 4 BCE, he would still have been 40 at death. I don't buy the Autumn 4 BCE theory, because there was no "Light shining in the East", and that shining light is extremely important to the birth of Jesus and his subsequent claim to the Kingship. December 25th, 7 BCE, however, provides it perfectly. The winter solstice of 7 BCE also fits in nicely with Hebrew prophecies concerning Moses, the Great Flood, and Solomon (their dating of events: not claiming they actually happened myself). The Hebrews priests would have been looking for the sign at th |
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* that solstice. |
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where did you get the minor hebrew storm god reference, I never heard of this unless of course you are talking about the aztec thunder god Quezacotl who came to earth in the form of a human and was sacrificed for the aztec people, though he was around since the mayan culture under the name kukulcan. |
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I'm not saying definitely 4BC but BC seems to make more sense to me. There is research that has taken place that suggests there were a number of planetary conjunctions that took place between 7BC and 2BC. Venus and Jupiter in August, 3BCwould have appeared as a bright light in the eastern sky. Also the 7AD theory doesn't hold for the so called journey made by Joseph and his bird. |
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perry > religion |
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I thought it was common knowledge. Yahweh (the God worshipped by Jews, Christians, Muslims) started off as a somewhat minor Storm God. The Hebrews weren't always monotheists. |
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The only problem with your equals sign is that it seems that the very definition of ism is a sort of negation of christianity; a pagan is one who isn't a christian. |
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i read his thread assuming he knew that.. silly me! |
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Do you enjoy feet? |
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no. do you mean am i hobbes? |
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Drunken I have a question that should occupy you for a while. "Are you really as clever as you think you are?" |
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Good one, I have one back Simpsons cartoon sex: wholesome famiuly fun? |
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I may. |
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Yes. That wasn't hard (until the sex was shown) |
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i'm not |
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Well, you're using an online dictionary for your definition... the modern university dictionary gives the following definitions: a heathen; one who worships false gods; an idolator. Seems your online dictionary has been shaped by Christianity (its rank influence mentioned above), and defines Christianity as the One True Religion with the One True God. |
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This shit is all a bit boring init? Can't we talk about reppin' ya endz instead? |
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nah, this is fuckin' fascinatin' stuff. |
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haha, I wasn't really serious, I just wanted the semantics argument that inevitably ensues, but that for some mysterious reason seemed to be missing from this thread. I shoul've written it in caps. |
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I've never understood this focus on Christianity. I know a few believing Christians, and they're really quite nice. I've known one or two of "ex-Hindus" with some scary stories to tell, however... (I'm too drunk to type them.) |
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no I havent heard that story of yahweh, can you site some kind of reference im quite interested. I guess my impression of yahweh is the one from genesis and later discussed in psalms about this stone by the temple of soloman, its actually tied to masonic thought as well something along the lines of "the stone which the builder refused shall become the headcorner stone" or the keystone, which is required to build an arch. to go with your statement of polytheism the temple of soloman actually paid tribute to multiple gods just incase they were wrong, and the temple was built by pagans...side note, I believe the literial term pagan means, "one of the land" those who lived outside the city walls, like farmers and such, who were not tied down to church as much. crowley avatar, heard some strange stories about his house |
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excellent electronic music |
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It shouldn't take much research to dig up some facts about old Yahweh. About the Crowley house: I live less than a hundred miles from Loch Ness, upon whose shores Boleskine rests. Apparently, Crowley went there from Egypt to perform an important set of rituals (based upon Abremalin the Mage if I recall correctly), but was called away on urgent business, thus leaving the rituals unfinished - this is said to be the cause of the rumours of nasty things haunting Boleskine (now owned by Robert Plant or Pete Townsend or someone like that). I even read that the Loch Ness Monster is attributable to this! |
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