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i posted 'heliosphan' on some domestic mb and asked for opinions. it's a music mb but people are into different sorts of music so for now no one recognized the song..i doubt they know afx. anyway, why i did is, because i was interested in ppls opinion merley from the music point of you. without them knowing what they listened to or to know what/whos was it..here are the first replies: 1. not being a fan of electronic music, this sounds pretty good. but im not sure how long could i listen to it for. (then i asked in what years she'd put it) it's how electronic sounded in 80's but it could be a new song going back to roots. 2. boring, a thing any other musically inspired man can come up with on a home computer. 3. alright...bit too easy and boring. are we heavily biased because we know the background? or is it really all about the music preference? also, i'd love to do some tests like that with artists i don't know but were also infuental! |
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2. boring, a thing any other musically inspired man can come up with on a home computer. tell him from me: "fuck off" |
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i get that no.2 response from loads of people when i play any electronic music. some people don't like music that appears 'easy' or simple, or doesnt require any performance skill. i think that view is narrow-minded, but then again it is their view. |
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she's not too fond of electronic music. anway, a new reply: 4. nice piece. something british..i used to listen to similar stuff some years ago. |
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hmm, music preference + time... the original "heliosphan" sounds quite simple, "easy" and boring once you´ve heard the "Roskilde 97´live version"...getting into and learning about music production also changes how I hear/listen to music nowadays. |
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I didn't care for half of selected ambient works. moby's ambient collection released around the same time was much better imo. guess this can account for listening to music without knowledge of the artist as tolstoyed put it. |
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A lot of people that claim to be "into music" don't like music at all. How many times have you heard "How can you like Band X if you like Band Y?" Maybe never, but I have. That said, Heliosphan is a tricky one to play to people. When I heard that back, back, baaaaaaaaaaack in 1992 I thought it sounded a bit dated even then, like a late 80s thing, but in a good way. I don't know what I am talking about. |
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i don't know..heliosphan sounds awesome to me! |
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yes, but i find it extremly emotinal..i was thinking it would hit some people the same it hits me and some other ppl around here. but no..they just find it nice but a bit bland.. |
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One needs to develop a taste for everything. There are not too many things that "hit" us right away. |
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bit come on..it hardly gets any more emotinal :) |
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it's never been one of my favorite aphex twin tracks, and i can easily see why people who not particularly interested in electronic music or are unfamiliar with the context of electronic music would hear an unengaging, colorless track. it's pretty simple, straightforward and lofi. it sounds dated to me. it probably takes a special affection for the genre to truly appreciate. you are biased, and it's really about music preference. the "music" itself, like the color green for example, has no independent existence outside of your mind. in other words, you are the primary architect of your experience of "heliosphan", and not richard d james. these are some of my thoughts... |
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well, interesting thoughts..i suppose i should have performed that test first here, so i'd pick a more appropraite song :) |
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reading other responses now, i definitely have no emotional reaction to "heliosphan." "xtal" and "hedphelym" are a different story though...the former a sweet kiss on christmas morning with fat snowflakes flying in the air, the latter a descent into a menacing abyss saturated with black metallic powder... |
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my housemate always says to me that the music he likes always has to have 'soul' in it. i've noticed that much of his music collection is of black origin [e.g. jazz, hiphop, etc...] but i still can't put my finger on what this 'soul' actually means. if i hear it i know, but i can't put it into words. first word that comes to mind is 'sincere', but that seems to be a far too innocent a word. *rambles on a bit more* |
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my favorite music has a quality that i describe as "inevitable." which is, i suppose, what i consider spiritual in a personal way. i guess if we had the words to explain or describe actually and precisely what it is we love in a piece of music we wouldn't need the music anymore, we could just read the words over and over... |
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I'm constantly asking myself what i love about the music i listen to, especially when the music i like is criticised. this is a very annoying tendency! |
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"inevitable", that's interesting. is that as in predictable? or something different? |
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mylittlesister, no not as in predictable. i mean the undeniable, ineffable, shaking hands with the holy spirit sort of inevitable. i suppose it's a personal reference for which there is no precise translation. |
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you mean there are no psyhical reactions going on in your head or body when you listen to something? i doubt i'd get that out of reading.. |
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i think i must not have made myself clear. i was trying to acknowledge the limitations of linguistic descriptions, by pointing out that if we could capture in words what we hear in the music we would not need the music... but i think it's a healthy exercise to examine why you like the music that you like. sometimes you might uncover secrets that you were keeping from yourself, secrets that you would ultimately rather know... |
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one of my main reasons for liking music is if it furthers my self-observation. this may be by the lyrics, emotions created or whatever. that's why i particularly john lennon, jim o'rourke and other singer/songwriters. that's about the most specific generalisation i can make [that makes sense, honest!]. electronic music is different, i like that for the way sound is crafted to express or the reaction it has on my body/mind. |
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it is very difficult for me to know whether you intend your misspellings and what are the ramifications thereof. anyway you can all cup my balls. |
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would one need one hand or two sir |
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i am biased because when i listen to "heliosphan" i remember hangable auto bulb and realise that aphex twin auteur study is one of the finest ones i just like his ever-regenerative wonder, optimism, generosity, he is really a good gentleman. |
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One needs to develop a taste for everything. no. there are things that are immediately likeable! |
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You`re right. By "everything" I somehow meant music that we don`t listen to usually. (See: those peole in tolstoyed`s post). |
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Electronic music isn't very popular right now... so you will find a lot of trend savy music-people finding excuses to dislike anything without a guitar. We can thank moby, the chemical bros and saint germain for that. |
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well, it's a music message board so i doubt ppl are concerned with what's popular and what isn't..could be you're right too..dunno. anyway, thank you moby, chemical brothers & saint germain! |
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i was disappointed to find myself using the 'i could make that!' argument when explaining why a lot of Faithless music isn't that good. Because I could pretty much make a lot of SAW1, and many other good stuffs. |
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You would be suprised. Its not about popular... most of the more cutting edge trend savy people avoid popular things. So its not so much popularity, but trends. The problem with electronic music, is it got marketed as techno and big beat and drum n bass, so everyone thinks of the extremely shallow club music when they see electronic music, not realizing their is a possibility for great beauty and emotion in electronics. Its a basic paradigm. Its similar to the way a lot of intelectuals see action movies. They will avoid them like the plague, but there is a possibility for some extremely high quality situational humor and drama if its done right. |
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I know and it sucks. just about every conversation I have about music with someone (outside teh internets) goes like this. "what do you listen to?" "I like electronic music" "uhh, I h8 techno, its so repetative and gay" |
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Anyway... It's pretty easy to know people who really love music, I mean music as a form of art. They will listen to artists and their specific albums, not single songs. Random guy : "Hey you heard that X song?" Me : "Uh what album is that on?" Random guy : "Dunnu man it's on the radio" Me : "Oh well" |
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My friends usually say electronic music is repetitive. Thats what I like about electronic music though. Locking my brain to the groove. |
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Tolstoyed: If you posted a link to traditional Japanese Gagaku music they would probably give a similar response. |
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and chorus, verse chorus verse isn't repetitive? |
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I mean that like, you know when a person really "loves" music, that he/she digs it, when they are able to understand that there is a linearity in the history of music. So if the person say to you "LOL!" when you put on a Kraftwerk album, well they just don't understand. But if they go "man yeah without them who knows what it would be now?" well they at least have a grasp of the history of music. Now it's more interesting "Oh yeah man it's incredible how we went from Computer World --> heliosphan --> Coopers World --> Lentic Catachresis" |
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got a link to the mb? |
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albums are great but just songs can be awesome too ! think about songs on EPs that aren't available on albums ! when you listen to windowlicker, you don't need an album background on the other hand, confield is better listened all the way through |
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imo each musical genre has its own aim, that's why people usually don't listen to every genre for instance people who only listen to electronica are probably interested in sounds or beautiful melodies, whereas hip-hop addicts want to hear good rhymes and to bounce to the beat house lovers want to dance to nice rhythms with nice hooks, whereas people who listen to pop music want some awesome lyrics and melodies to whistle classical music lovers need great structures and good melodies etc... |
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erh... that just sounds really really really pretentious. It is possible to hate kraftwerk and still like modern music. To set as a requirement of being a true music lover that one must know the history of music is comparable to asking a person to learn all about DNA by reading history of biology or having to know everything about art history to appreciate a painting. you're talking crap. same goes for that "I only listen to artists and albums" thing... like aphex twin.. I hate analords.. acid is boring.. would you say that I don't know anything about music since I don't listen to everything the artist has done? Actually, doing so would make me a hypocrite (and fairly stupid), wouldn't it? "Oh, I listen to aphex.. I hate analords, but I bought them all and am listening to them" |
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i'm not sure, i think you may have taken it the wrong way. not sure he was saying that you have to listen to everything by an artist, and the thing about 'kraftwerk' is putting it in context - think when it was made. |
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krafwerk is crap no matter when it was made. I can't look at stuff other than from my own point of view, and I believe that music is highly asynchronous (sp?); if you listen to and enjoy it today, it doesn't matter if it was "good" or "bad" when it was made... |
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yes it's context, or history... somehow. So saying that "Man Kraftwerk sucks that sounds SO dated", well it just means that you don't really like music as art, as a soul-searching thing for pure pleasure in our life. Sames goes for Heliosphan. I never considered things "dated", they are just put there in context of the history of music. Sure I might not be interested in listening to a typical dry drumkit from the 80's, but that doesn't mean I ignore it (or think it sucks), or don't understand its context. Anyway, yes if somebody would say to me "My main ressource in music is to listen to albums I buy", well that pretty much for me puts him on a different layer than somebody who listen to pop radio only, cause the second person has no ressource to find out about the history of music or context. Put Dylan's Blonde on Blonde to each of these person in the above paragraph, and we know who has the better chance of understanding it. |
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well, if you actually hate kraftwerk that's a bit odd yes, if they're just not your thing that's something else :) |
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oh, i do enjoy most kraftwerk music today, but putting it in context makes me realise how good it must've been back then. |
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i must admit that if i listen to kraftwerk, it's more from an historical point of view than for real pleasure ; i like some of their stuff but i prefer a lot of electro of nowadays nevertheless there's no real relationship between this taste and the topic of this thread |
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So saying that "Man Kraftwerk sucks that sounds SO dated", well it just means that you don't really like music as art, well, I'd never say that, and I know kraftwerk is old. I just think it's boring even if it was "new" in the 80s, and I definately love music nontheless. Put Dylan's Blonde on Blonde to each of these person in the above paragraph, and we know who has the better chance of understanding it. do you understand music? I like/dislike it. I also dislike bob dylan. Anyway, yes if somebody would say to me "My main ressource in music is to listen to albums I buy", well that pretty much for me puts him on a different layer than somebody who listen to pop radio only, cause the second person has no ressource to find out about the history of music or context. I mostly only listen to albums, but I do have eps and 12" singles too.. some of them are of songs I already have on albums and some are single-standing songs. People who listen to pop radio only have a much less defined taste in music, yes, but you're still talking about history for some reason... I wouldn't really have to know kraftwerk to appreciate later electronic music. I wouldn't have to like them to appreciate the music. as I said: for me music is asynchronous and it doesn't matter if people liked it a long time ago, it is NOW that counts. |
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oh, convenient comparison: I just bought charlie chaplins the gold rush. I don't really care if the film is a classic or if it's black&white or what, I just find it to be really funny. I know people who just go "oh, that's B&W, I can't be bothered!" and I reply that it's their loss. The "it sounds so dated" is like that "B&W" argument, and I agree with you on people going on about how kraftwerk sound dated should check when it was released, but just knowing that it was made a long time ago doesn't make it better now. If they'd watched the movie first and then gone "ah, that sucked! Boring" while thinking it was made in 2004 (heh...), it wouldn't be more interesting or funny if they found out it was a classic and made way back in nineteenfiftysomething (or something). I hope you get what I'm saying... |
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radio is good for discovering artists and ace single songs ; the only problem is that radio play crap |
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