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 (nobody)...and 237 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2613457 Today 3 Topics 127500 |
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This has to be the best way to go, if you know how to do it properly. You would hardly be limited. Too bad I don't know how to use it now. You could just program general instructions, then the computer will do all the work for you. I want to use code to make things THAT make things. I guess the music software that's out there is already better than anything I could really dream up but you could tweak it and stuff and do some generally insane things with code I think, but actually don't even know too much about how it works. |
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^ like the stuff rdj and booth/brown are said to utilise/make ? mmhh.. some laws about percussion etc. and melodies could result in some interesting results. change the laws for a different style, or with a random number generator, have the same style, but different song .. mmhhh.. |
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wait... you want to make a software that makes music for you? thats crap -Zeus |
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^ not necessarily .. only if it sounds crap! if you think about it .. it would probably take a lot more time and effort to figure out the laws that make something sound decent [not that this makes it any better] .. than actually compose something. I'm not saying composing music the 'conventional' way is crap .. but does it matter how it was produced? isn't using a computer cheating? then isn't using an instrument cheating if you didn't build it yourself? but then how do you record it? |
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surely its about the end product .. how that sounds! i would think so mos-def |
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if you make the software, write the code, it'd be a bit like designing a very comlex and personalized instrument. |
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a program that could create music from scratch would be a different approach and possibly even a challenge to our conventional musical/artistic thinking. makes you wonder what we like about music. the fact that it was made by a person with a heart? or the sound and nothing more? i think it would be highly interesting if not anything else. and if you could take something randomly generated and then chop it up and do things with it then youd be adding a human heart to it and that would be wonderful. i have means of making extremely random drum beats that dont follow a set rhythm or even tempo sometimes, which is interesting and sometimes i can listen for a long time, but in the end i have to chop it up and make it human and more musical. randomness plays a big part in alot of the more experimental electronic music. the concept behind experimenting is to see what happens when you do something and then put it to use. |
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mmm.. true .. but even people with a heart (ie. that don't use such programs) can create really cold music. I think it comes down to the intention of the artist. using such a program doesn't have to (imo) restrict one to cold digital bit crushed sounds? but yeah .. would be interesting to have a proggy like that .. man .. what i wouldn't give to get my hands on something like that :) |
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oh i didnt say it would be cold, it would just have to be looked at as a completely different approach to music. good or bad. but if you think about it the music would only be as good as the direction and "musical theory" you gave it. so in that sense it would be guided by you in some form. if you made it too smart youd end up getting computers making hit records and then they would take over the pop charts. |
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^ sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory .. i guess it would affect the perception of artists more than the perception of the music. the artists being viewed as programmers opposed to composers is bound to be a bit strange. i don't know if i'd listen to the music any differently tho .. might make live shows quite interesting tho .. mmhh.. :) |
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i honostly dont think it would be possible to make a program that could create good music from scratch. at some point you would be putting in your ideas and slightly telling it what to do and then its not just the computer anymore its you too. like telling it you like a sound or dont like a sound. making it make certain kinds of sounds. even deciding what parts should be louder and what not. i think when you start to do that you lose the original idea of a computer making music by itself. |
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what would be interesting is a program that could random loops off your computer and mix them. have one directory for drum loops, one for bass, one for synths, one for random whatevers. and then a 4 track random loop sequencer each one selecting a file in its designated directory. and every 8 or 16 measures it selects a new file so the song keeps changing. that would be spactacular actually. |
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Have you guys ever looked into Koan?...it's a bit of software that produces Generative Music i.e. music that generated as it goes along from parameters you enter... Eno released an album as a series of Koan tracks on a floppy disc a few years back...give me a few mins and I'll sort you out some links to check out... |
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I know atleast one program that generates random music, Koan. I tried it back in 95 or something. It just made these calm Eno-like pieces. I think Eno was involved in the designing or something. -P |
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check out this section of Google... ... & especially... ... |
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Hehe spooky! |
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I was thinking of it more as an extended very useful tool. The computer wouldn't just make stuff all by itself, you'd have to instruct it, the ideas would still come from you, you're still the artist, but now your tool is very elastic. You'd be able to realize ideas that would be illogical or time consuming to do in someone else's program. (we pretty much all use code already, .. the software we use... we just didn't make it) For an example of what code can do visually at least check out www.geocities.com/autocatalysis the "code" section. It would probably be really hard to make complex insane stuff work properly in a way the retarded computer understands though, so you'd still be limited unless you were a wizard at it. I don't know how to use it, but think I'll learn how someday. Doesn't richard devine use it for his songs or something? I remember reading he was some computer student or something. or something. |
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... .... |
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I never heard of koan, I'll check it out. There were some randomish/"fractal" music releases by forest fang and robert rich but they weren't that great probably because the artists didn't use it in interesting ways... I bet autechre has to use some sort of weird coded stuff. The "human element" doesn't really ever get subtracted, like there's no heart in it or something. We made the computers themselves, these weird artificial sounds would never have the possibility of being created without human thought/invention. |
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Great minds think alike, my friend :)... Just about to have a smoke and a read of ......ahhh, the pleasures of Sat morning without a hangover :).. |
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^ cheers jand ... checking now . |
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no problem...it's an area that's always fashinated me; I'm a programmer at heart and Code & Music have always been pretty closely intertwined in my head...I can def find similar aestetic pleasure in a good bit of code & a good piece of music so this thread immediately caught my eye... I had so much fun as a kid writing assmebler on the Spectrum trying to get some decent sound of it, pretty tricky as it only had a piezo speaker that could only be on or off (imagine a 1-bit sampler...)...I sooo wish I still had some of that shit... oh yeah.. as always, is your friend if you wanna try Koan out BTW... |
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ENO mentions Conways Game of Life it that essay... I wrote a Flash version a while back if you wanna give it a try...check out ...it's the first green square on the left (and yeah, I like minimal interfaces...;)... |
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Oooh oh oh. I LOVE these kind of topics!!!!!!! Jand always got the top notch info for us (cant forget the videos too), Thanx for the info, every link u posted was very nice reading. I really liked Enos speak. The most intresting post in ages. Music N Math. |
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g3rm.org is great! i love langston's ant...i wish it would move at a slower pace so that i could look deeper into which way the ants turn... |
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Thanks, mate...I really need to add some more stuff to it; got as load of pieces but they all need finishing off & I'm always too lazy to do that...it's been almost a year since I last updated it... but things are brewing so stay tuned...;).. I'll see if I can dig out a remixed ver of Langtons Ant for ya... Arch: Did you read ENO's mention of Kevin Kellys book OUT of CONTROL?...you'd fucking love that book, I know....see if you can get your hands on a copy... I think there's a "liberated" version over at .... |
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i think the answer is 24. |
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so far no luck with those programs i downloaded, one seems to crash my computer everytime i install it and the other just didnt do anything. but ill keep trying. but this was a great topic. |
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as far as the original post of this topic. i took programming classes for a short while when i got inspired about doing the same thing youre talking about but then i slept through my midterms and quit :) so then i just started downloading anything and everything off the web to make music and i can now do anything i would want to do. so i gave up on programming cause i dont feel restrained by what i have. |
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i've just skim-read this thread, and it sounds a bit formulaic to get the codes to do it for u.... i supose it depends how much u let the codes do for u. I use randomize on FL sometimes, but that's just to try and get some bizarre sounds by using LOTS of octaves! you need to make sure ur using the codes to make music, rather than the codes using u to make music... if u see wot i mean |
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isn't pop formulaic? |
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I mean .. what music isn't formulaic .. ? |
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yeah that speach by eno was quite good... i wonder if thats where squarepusher got the title for his 'bubble and squeak' ep? |
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oh yeah, i went to that musinum page b4 by lars. Some of the sample tracks are better than the released albums by various people that used that software like forrest fang and some guy that made this crappy album "organized chaos" who were featured together at www.discover.com in an article although autechre deserve much much much more credit for making groundbreaking music than they do. They use a symmetrical structure but don't use symmetrical sounds often, well robert rich does, some of his stuff is pretty good, the best of the 5 or so albums I shouldn't have bought with fractalish compositionish ishish. I believe he's on mp3.com. |
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Cool eno thing so far (still reading) It's cool that I've found out about moire patterns and out of phase cycles independently already. I feels smarted n stuff, snarkle. I'd like to hear crunch or autechre or aphex just recite random ideas of theirs. There's a cool link at www.mp3.com/jbohn called "huh?" It's pretty interesting I printed it out. I like his song "walking on eggshells" but not a lot of others. |
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great read. I've never even heard eno's music. |
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it's all about just being imaginative, what difference does it make how the record was made as long as it's fucking tough or whatever you are going for ... end result without a doubt : ) computers can't hear ! even if it does it all for you only you can choose the bits you like ... end result ... definately all about taste really i guess ps. droolstring !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! drool_string_ukelele_v1.5 perfect example of random bliss |
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yeah, that speach is a reminder of how people like eno really are on a different level than most musicians... i wonder what his new stuff sounds like... what was his last release anyways? he pretty much defined the genre of ambient like 25 years ago... |
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def'nitely end product! |
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man i just typed in a load of rubbish read it back and deleted it . . . something about randomness not really being provable cos nobodys listend out for an eternity to see if it's really just a BIG loop, he he. plug ins on mass can come up with some pretty mad shit i tell you sometimes my computer does all the hardwork and i just sit back an smile making sure the levels okay on the bounce and keeping a note of the good bits. at the end of the day the virus is what it's really all about |
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That's a mad theory, hehheh. I'd have enjoyed you make a fool ...or, er, genius of yourself. It'll get really weird when we program computers TO hear and interpret sounds in an aesthetic manner, I think otto von schirach built this machine actually, he included a picture of his organicmechapet in 8000 bc in fact. |
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I'm well into the idea of Genetic Algothytms....basically things that grow & evolve...is is like cutting edge Computer science but it looks like breeding code & let's it go thru the same evoltuionaly system biological lifeforms from, produces some very interesting results....they trick of it is to us aethetic jundgement to act in place of natural selection... I'll see what links I can dig up... |
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otto is fucking cool man i love his stuff !!! dave has just been in the US representing and has done some gigs with him recently for schematic. sounds like a funny guy dresses up as a clown and stuff for jokes : ) really suits his music good sense of humour ! |
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this is getting wicked. I've thought alot about using evolution in "art". Evolution played a part in creating just about everything that is interesting.... you just need a large group that mutates, some mutations will happen to be aesthetically pleasing, only select these, re-mutate, re-select X 1,243,764 |
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If you love otto, check out www.mp3.com/dannn (forget if there's 2 or 3 n's there) according to phluidbox, another great underground musician (check out the "even cube" tracks on soulseek maybe by him) this guy is gonna be on schematic fairly soon (otto's buddy or something). Some of the tracks on dannn are better than others. THe review and description of otto's life/etc at www.forcedexposure.com is quite funny, he apparently sells magic beans for a living with the hell raiser pinhead and some smurfs. |
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i'll have a look . . . i left a message for you before about sending a cd in that other topic, anytime : ) thanks |
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i could see using the programs on sounds you already produced. it'd be cool. but so damn complex. |
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i like just playing with my virus for hours not recording or anything just listening to it and interacting it's better than any record when youre buzzin . . . music has it's place as does listening to anything else it's all stimulating in some way even just the sound of typing and the hum of my laptop and the wierd clicking that sounds as though it's got the rythm of a dripping tap if you know what i mean i just love sound in all it's forms. all music even electronic sound are art but at the same time instinct i rekon, even when you walk it just starts in the back of your head everything starting to become a part of it and then something happens and your focus changes and you don't even remember you were doing it, it's all subconcious. |
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not that thats relevant or anything, he he. |
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I don't have enough computer knowledge to create viruses! That'd be a cool tool... I like normal sounds from reality too since they're so detailed and intricate... I'd use these types of sounds in musical creations if I had a microphone. Like autechre's very excellent track 4 off chichlisuite sounds like it used some weird gizmo they found in their garage or something. |
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