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 Now online (1)DADONCK ...and 185 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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When men are free to pursue their rational self-interest, when they are free to use their minds in the quest to profit and better their lives, they are magnificently productive. The political/economic freedom of capitalism liberates the best minds and the most ambitious men to build, to create, to innovate, to invent, to advance human well-being and happiness. |
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Are you only making left-hand remixes of old threads? |
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Bernstein vs Marx vs Jeebus FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT |
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the best minds prosper, and the lesser minds die in poverty. hurray for capitalism! |
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it beats the alternative. HAMMER SICKLE. |
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What about those people selling that fleshlight? |
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more monoid please |
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research of the current asian economic success vs. the lack of success in africa (both were on the same levels in the early 60s of the previous century) one of the factors which played a role was the strength of the governments. asian governments were far more authoritarian than african, closely monitoring the way wealth was divided in society, where in africa only a small part of society gained wealth. more and more research shows that liberalism (which is closely tied to capitalism) in practice has at least as many cons as communism. |
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jeez punctuation and language sucks huge balls in that one...like midget-suck |
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Because they are all corrupt down there! |
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Economic liberalism is a moderate form of socialism which is a moderate form of communism in itself. More government programs, etc. Anyway Africa has all kinds of fucked up problems. All the major countries can share a little of the blame for that. I hope they get something together within my lifetime. |
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capitalism leads to corruption! |
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Economic liberalism is a moderate form of socialism? How so? |
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Nah. Without moral, no capitalism either! |
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yes, and that fucked-upness is basically happening all over again in iraq. where the us/international community tries to implement a liberal government. liberal governments in multi-racial/religious countries like those are a NO-GO. |
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What major countries? Are you talking the whole world, or just Africa? And how little of the blame? Who are "they," and what are "they" supposed to get together? |
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and who's going to make sure the morals are respected. the non-existent rules of a liberal government? |
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Well I have to stress moderate, but basically when the ultra liberals like Billary Clinton get control of the country, they start applying additional taxes to things like gasoline and cigarettes, and then they take that money and use it to fund social programs and such that could be funded privately. It's just giving the goverment more control which is what Socialism is all about. |
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?? an ultra liberal raising taxes? what? are you being sarcastic? |
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... i think you may be confusing liberal with libertarian... two completely different things. Liberals ALWAYS raise taxes. |
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Are you maybe mixing up liberalism with anarchism? |
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Liberalists oppose taxes and government "interference." |
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O_o |
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In this case, it doesn't matter. They both oppose taxes and government interference. |
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regarding Africa my statement was a little sloppy. Basically what I'm saying is: If instead of an African country it was a European country that had the sort of civil unrest that Africa has... everyone would have banded together and helped fix the motherfucker. Sent the necessary aid, help to establish a government, etc. I'm just saying we could all do a little more to help out over there if we were gonna do it for "our own." And then theres things like selling them arms, and buying their blood diamonds. (I know the US has a hand in both, I couldnt give specifics on which other countries have done shit like that with Africa) I honestly don't know enough about WHY it's so bad over there. We'll never become a space faring explorer society with Africa in shambles. |
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Ok. Carry on. |
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The form of liberalism that is practiced within the United States, ie Democrats, might SAY they oppose taxes and government interference, but they always use them as "necessary evils." The libertarian most definitely would NOT put such things into practice beyond securing our borders, funding our police and firemen, roads and other vital necessities(I personally think there is room for socialized health care even within a completely stripped libertarian society... i mean if we have cops and firemen on the books, it stands to reason we should have hospitals too.). Everything else would be privatized. Everything. |
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DO YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK ABOUT AFRICA? ITS FUCKED UP BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY LAZY, DIRTY.... anyway i gotta go |
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actually capitalism did get us individualism wich is a good thing if you would combine it with socialism which let the human brain think about things in contradiction of capitalism where you just use your brains to get more money and thus new inventions but you the world could go faster if you had one big goverment and let all life be in one system like ancient tribes do with one medicineman. The president ofcourse choosable could be that medicineman and we could let science rule the world so that we have more inventions and a newer and better environment for all. And give money a lesser proportion then say culture and nature or what.. |
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social democracy, innit |
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from my point of view, the us would be better of with an ultra liberal like billary. way better. |
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But then again, in America, you switched the colours around: Left is blue and right is red, so you just don't have a say, do you? |
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is that a quote of that nobel-prize winner? what's his name...watson? |
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well that's what we've had for years... with a balance of ecomonic conservatives that help lower the taxes and keep it all in check. But picture this as an example: instead of just the FDA passing/denying a new medicine on the market, you have 5 stamps from different drug testing privately funded agencies. You can still sell your drug all you like but if your missing those 5 stamps no ones gonna buy that shit. The private market CAN solve many problems when used effectively. |
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you'd probably say Sicko was a load of crap, right? |
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Milton Friedman ! |
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nope, not at all.... as I said earlier I think theres plenty of room for socialized health care as long as we're funding police and fireman as well... it's in the same category. I think the private market COULD take care of it though, and it does more or less. There's goverment interference (Nixon pulled some shit) with the current system so it's messed up as it is. |
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I'm not a full out anarchist at all... just a minimalist when it comes to the government. |
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lets experiment with privatized governments and find out whether or not it'll work! muhahahaha |
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When the US was founded in 1776 it was essentially a Libertarian, minimalist government. It was a huge success. Slowly over time it has morphed into what it is now, and our tax dollars are no being siphoned into occupying Iraq, while our candidates become more and more polarized and ignorant. |
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It might be ok if being insured meant you were actually insured but it doesn't. |
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You can't judge something like a political entity based on immediate success. What we know about the US now tells us it hasn't been a particularly huge success. |
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from nothing into the worlds leading superpower in less than two hundred years? helping to usher in a new era of social liberty among much of the world? not to mention our role in ww2... I don't see how you can possibly argue the United States has not been a success. I gotta go to bed. |
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welcome to capitalist propaganda 101 |
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Power is not a measure of success. |
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The fact that the us is (or was) a superpower doesn't imply that its in- or external policies, or as you put it, its libertarian minimalist government could be totally accounted for that success. I'd say it's a minor detail in the greater scheme of things. Communist russia was a superpower once too, but with an opposed way of governing things. Somehow both these policies were succesful. I'm tempted to think that in both cases it didn't matter that much what types of governments were implemented. ... Although I must admit I'm contradicting my previous post regarding Asia vs. Africa. |
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what then WOULD you consider a success? I would make the argument that in regards to politics, power is the only quantifiable measurment of success. I mean there are other measurements, but those only chalk up to opinion. goDel: the consitution of the US (our minimalist, libertarian document that guarantees us specific rights) is fundementally responsible for the social liberties and freedom that we have here today. I personally consider that a success (relating to what i just said- that can only be chalked up to my opinion though). Besides, eventually our sun will go nova, the Earth and our solar system will be completely destroyed and then later the universe will collapse on itself in the form of a swimming, dark black hole. Whats any success then? It's always fleeting. |
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Blah blah blah, it's not fair, the rich are getting richer the poor are getting poorer, blah blah winge winge. What I think is going to happen is the rich will get better looking the poor uglier until there are two distict subspecies which for now I will call the pretties and the uglies. The uglies will all live miserable lives and be banished, allowing the pretties to govern the world as they see fit. Whats more, because democracies are not working anywhere people will have IQ tests and only the top 20% will be able to vote. |
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sounds almost hitleresque |
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The measure of political success is the collective well-being of all human beings (and, arguably, other beings as well) affected by the political system. The definition of well-being will differ as much as the definition of power (Is physical or mental power the superior (most "powerful") power? Is it the power to strike in anger, or the power to control yourself you long for?). If the measure of the success of a political system was what "power" it brought itself, then power would have to be the goal of the political system. That is not the case. If it was, there wouldn't be such things as welfare and the notion of a just judicial system, etc, etc: The role of politics is to care for its subjects, not to mindlessly flail its warmongering "instruments" around whenever it can. That some political systems are occasionally corrupted does not change this basal feature of all systems that can properly be referred to as political systems. |
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