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anyone seen this? it's quite an shocking documentary..shows how ignorant people are.. there's been lots to say how director manipulated the whole thing, but i don't buy that. sure, he could probably present it from a different point of view but there are some things so obvious from this film it's impossible to overlook how people from developed world don't give a fcuk about african people..and then tanzanians (officials) complain about things in this documentary that are completly irrelevant..even more frightening is that some westerns seem to belive this was directors little call for attention and probably think africa is all sweet and dandy. like they don't want to see the bigger picture.. they even started a web page to tell the truth about it; |
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Sounds interesting and it's on Torrentspy. Cool. Nothing like a grim documentary in the summer. |
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Earth's ecology is fucked as a mu'fucker. |
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I can't wait until humans are gone. All of our skyscrapers and cities will look great once reclaimed by nature. |
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I'll probably watch it. That site seems like it's made by some officials in Tanzania who are trying to debunk the claims against their country so that they can keep on being corrupt leaders... |
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I've heard a lot about it, but haven't had a chance to see it. Guess I have to dl it soon. |
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good film. that website sickens me...the truth about what? that the world is fucked up? I meet people from countrys like Tanzania everyday and why would they make up all these fucked up things they are telling me. This film explains a problem and the problem is a fact. |
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They play this on Doc channel all the time but I always miss it. |
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seeen it, its on point! I highly recommend it. |
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what one of the owners of fish factories had to say about it. really sickening..he's concerned europeans may stop buying his fish after they see this documentary because it seems they live in filthy conditions or something..and people that buy that fish probably are indeed that ignorant which is why tanzanian officials are concerned about this film i guess. it's really messed up. |
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That's what happens when economy dictates ethics: People become evil. |
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you don't need economy for people to become evil... |
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exactly..and this is a great documentary that points out just where civilization got with this policy. it's totally messed up and most people don't even care. |
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No, but it's a big help. |
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fucking americans... |
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And the people who do care are effectively kept from doing anything because someone figured out it would be a good idea if we demanded money for services rendered to humanitarian organisations. |
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this is really depressing! |
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I haven't seen the movie, so maybe my opinions are totally misplaced. But I can't help but express a little cynicism here. A few questions: Just how much are the resident Africans actually contributing to this industry? How responsible are they for the exports of fish? Are they really the backbone of the business, or do they just happen to live in an area where foreigners are making money? If the point of this movie is just to say, "look how much money is being made--and down the street, people are starving", then so what? You can find that here in the United States, or any major city. What exactly IS the point of the documentary? That people are starving? That because a lucrative business gets its product from an impoverished area of the world, it should donate a cut of its profits to the hungry? That humanity is in pain, and we should kiss its wounds? I don't get it. I say: so what? People are starving. People always will be starving. Are we to believe that the more fortunate are obligated to distribute their wealth to the needy in an effort to equalize the standard of living in the world? Fuck that. If I go to some shithole country and figure out a way to turn its resources into money, I'm not going to turn around and give my profits back to the residents of that shithole. I'm supposed to sacrifice the fruits of my industriousness so some guy can get a free ride? It's easy to sit here at your computer and say, "oh, how awful! What a tragedy!", and feel like a concerned citizen of some global community of care. But are you about to sell that computer of yours and donate the proceeds? Nope. You're going to forget about it and post some bullshit on xlt. And everyone else is doing the same thing. Everyone in that fishing company is doing the same thing. And you know what? That's perfectly fine, because I really don't give two fucks about the people in Africa, and I don't feel guilty about it. And neither should you. Disagree with me? Then go ahead and prove it: sell your belongings and sa |
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* and sacrifice yourself. |
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Just to be really clear, if you're whining about this problem and how awful it is, and don't do something serious about it, then you're just some fuckhead pretending to feel halfway guilty because you think you should. |
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it would probably be a good idea you see the film first, because you may change your mind..you'd probably feel embarrassed about what you're saying here. "You can find that here in the United States, or any major city" exactly..it's not just a proble, with africa or other 3rd world countries, but it's the most obvious there. am i going to do something about it? if im ever in a position to do something about it, yeah i would definitelly do it. but western companies that could make a difference don't give a fcuk about all this, they're just into it for the profit. it's often said every individual can make a difference, but that's pretty silly as long as the leaders and people with power don't see it as a problem. or for as long as western people stay ignorant..and trust me, there are people who help as much as they can, but they can only help so much. it's completly idiotic western countries spend most on weapons/wars, when they could spend that money helping poor people. we live in an age where money runs our lifes and that's just stupid. |
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Naturally, companies that are in a position to do something about the problem are concerned with profit. The fact that they continue to exist as companies, the fact that they are in a position to help in the first place, is due to their placing an all important emphasis on profit. If they adopted humanitarian priorities, they wouldn't be where they are. Also, I wonder why you say "western companies" instead of companies in general, as though European and Asian companies are incapable of helping in the same way. It's like you've got some kind of vendetta against the west and all of its greedy, evil corporations. "If I'm ever in a position to do something about it, yeah, I would". Well, I'm sure you can spare a few dollars, right? You DO have the internet. And given the enormous number of posts you've made on this message board, I probably wouldn't be wrong in assuming that you're paying for a premium account here. So let's get this straight -- you're paying money to xltronic.com so you can put pictures in your posts, but you won't send money to the starving children in Africa. Please. You're no different from me--I don't think you give a shit any more than I do. You just PRETEND to care. |
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that ruled, sir. |
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Sorry got to 1 minute of the trailer and got bored and turned it off. My best mate is a Zimbabwian and his old man still lives out there. We were talking about Africa's troubles last time his dad was over an he felt that it was Africa's responsibility to solve its problems and expecting the West to do anything about it was both unreasonable and unrealistic. |
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when i say western i mean european just as well..infact it's european market that0s in question in this documentary. ofcourse asian or any other companies should care as well. what you're saying is, there's no way i can find this whole thing wrong? it's either i don't give a fcuk or im on vendetta? odd point of view you've got there.. as for the last part of your post - you got it completly wrong. as i said before, there are a lot of people donating money to help people in africa, but it obviously isn't enough, so i don't see why would someone defend these big companies that could help but won't. why is profit so important? |
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the west could help solving those problems though, but instead we only exploit them..im sorry if i find that sick. |
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i don't want to feel guilty anymore. i'm not going to watch this. (i already saw pieces of this movie in other programs) in other news: the hole in the ozon layer is closing, acid rain is reducing and i don't need a guilt trip to be consious of my contribution to global warming |
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sirmailbox: I hereby relieve you of your knighthood and sentence you to go live in africa. What do you think we can accomplish more by? (1) Selling our computers and sending all our money to Africa (making us poorer as well, seeing as how normal people don't usually have too large "profits") or (2) by demanding that corporations that come from the outside of a country where no-one has the money to start a corporation doing the same thing (try being industrious when you don't have any sort of money or credibility at the bank) give some of their proceeds to the poor people whose land they are exploiting? Maybe they could hire them and pay decent wages instead of awfully low wages (so low that no-one can ever hope to save up enough to start their own company) that the workers have to accept because it's the only work around? Your entire argument falls on the fact that most of the people in that area are poor; you indirectly blame them for not having seen the opportunities and exploited them themselves, but when you think about how little education they get and how little money they have, it's not reasonable to demand that they should somehow intuitively know that this fish is worth money to foreigners. When you add to this that most of these poor people are poor because western society (which, yes, includes europe, even when you talk to americans) have been doing this forever; moving in, extracting all the resources, and then moved away again without leaving even a single cent. Ceri: Old African men who have the money and time to go to England aren't to be trusted in discussing politics; they're usually discussing economics instead of politics, but using the same words. |
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right, it's not as if africa can offer same opportunities as western countries. they're not in such troubles because they're lazy or stupid, it's just that instead of thinking how to start their own business they think how to put something together for their next meal. it's easy to think how people there are plain stupid or lazy from a western point of view where you have number of posibilities, but put yourself in their shoes. |
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sirmailbox, you sound like my friend Calvin when tries to defend the war in Iraq. He's actually used the words "who cares about Iraqis" when talking about the civilian death toll in Iraq. You're probably one of that 20% still idiotic enough to think Bush is doing a fantastic job in Iraq like he is. |
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How many times in a row is he allowed to veto the same proposal? |
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I feel the word evil isn't applied often enough. Take care not to over-use it (which makes it harmless again), but it's like you can't call anyone evil these days because it may hurt their feelings. |
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evil runs this world brotha |
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Tolstoyed said: "when i say western i mean european just as well..infact it's european market that0s in question in this documentary. ofcourse asian or any other companies should care as well." Granted -- Western can refer to European countries, you're right on that. But you say that Asian companies or any others should care as well. And I agree that, if Western companies ought to care, then other companies ought to care as well. Which is precisely why I wonder why you used the western distinction in your previous post. I couldn't figure out a logical reason for it, so I figured you were just used to bashing the west and did it out of habit or something. In any case, it's a small point and really not the important part of the argument. Tolstoyed said: "what you're saying is, there's no way i can find this whole thing wrong? it's either i don't give a fcuk or im on vendetta?" You can absolutely find the situation wrong. I agree that it's very unfortunate. I don't object to you finding the situation in Africa unfair. I just object to you running your mouth about how the west isn't fixing the problem and blaming some corporations when you yourself aren't doing a god damn thing to fix the problem, when you are in all probability affluent enough to spare at least a few dollars (or euros). It's hypocritical. You're basically whining about a problem without the willingness to help fix it. (more in a second) |
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Tolstoyed said: "i don't see why would someone defend these big companies that could help but won't." Now look -- if these companies are somehow depriving the Africans of something (and they may be -- I haven't seen the movie), then they absolutely ought to compensate the Africans. But that's as far as their obligation extends. I myself don't donate any money to Africa because I didn't create it's problems. It's not my responsibility, hence I don't care. If you think that companies should donate money just because they HAVE money, regardless of whether they've contributed to the problem, then you're as obligated as they are to contribute. "why is profit so important?" Generally, companies exist to make money. As I said before, if these companies didn't consider profit the ultimate priority, then they wouldn't be in a position to help in the FIRST place. Companies (at least the vast majority of them) get big and powerful by placing profit first. They get big by putting profit higher on the priority list than generous, humanitarian gestures. So of COURSE it's going to be the case that the companies that are in a position to help just don't give a fuck. Because they got INTO the position of being able to help BY not giving a fuck. |
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Drunken Mastah said: "What do you think we can accomplish more by?(1) Selling our computers and sending all our money to Africa (making us poorer as well, seeing as how normal people don't usually have too large "profits") or (2) by demanding that corporations that come from the outside of a country where no-one has the money to start a corporation doing the same thing (try being industrious when you don't have any sort of money or credibility at the bank) give some of their proceeds to the poor people whose land they are exploiting?" That depends. If you're talking about millions of people doing the demanding, then number (2) is probably a better idea. If you're talking about some scattered, loosely organized folks, then number (1) is probably more effective. But in either case it's a moot point because, as far as I can tell, no one here is doing EITHER of those things. You're not demanding shit. You're just arguing on an electronic music message board. You're guilty of the same hypocritical apathy-disguised-as-outrage that Tolstoyed is. Now as I said, if the residents of Africa are actually being HARMED by the activities of the companies, then yes, the companies ought to compensate. Otherwise, the companies don't owe the Africans shit--at least no more than you or I. Drunken Mastah said: "Your entire argument falls on the fact that most of the people in that area are poor; you indirectly blame them for not having seen the opportunities and exploited them themselves" -- Where did I blame the residents of Africa? Did you just imagine this because it would be easier for you to attack? I only said that if I turned resources into profit, I wouldn't be obligated to distribute the profit to the people that lived in the vicinity of the resources. If I STOLE the resources, then yes, I'd be doing something entirely unethical, and definitely would be obligated to "pay them back". But if I just saw an opportunity others hadn't, then no obligation exists. That's what I'm getting at. |
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IIC said: "sirmailbox, you sound like my friend Calvin when tries to defend the war in Iraq. He's actually used the words 'who cares about Iraqis' when talking about the civilian death toll in Iraq." That isn't an argument in any way, shape or form. I have no idea why you said it. "You're probably one of that 20% still idiotic enough to think Bush is doing a fantastic job in Iraq like he is. " Why would you think that? I haven't said a single thing about Iraq, or George Bush. Maybe you imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is a right wing neocon. Go ahead and keep doing that; it's much easier to lump everyone who disagrees with you into some stereotype than to actually analyze the arguments being presented. And in fact, I was against the war in Iraq before it even began, and think George Bush is a terrible president. Nice try, though. |
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sirmailbox pwn3d this thread. |
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yes, yes he did. |
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"You're not demanding shit. You're just arguing on an electronic music message board. You're guilty of the same hypocritical apathy-disguised-as-outrage that Tolstoyed is." Yeah, 'cause when you read posts on this mb, you're reading all I've ever done... Also, do you think the point of making such a movie is just to document? Most documentaries have an agenda, and here it is to make people aware of the situation so that they can join together in the millions and demand justice! You also missed the profit point up there: I specifically mention profits and proceeds because, as I say, normal people will usually loose something while corporations can still make money while giving parts of their proceeds to the poor africans. And, yes, they are being harmed in the sense that they're not treated fairly. " Where did I blame the residents of Africa? Did you just imagine this because it would be easier for you to attack?" Yeah, I said indirectly: It's easier to do stuff like that indirectly because then you can say you didn't say it. Either way your entire post smacks of disdain for those who haven't seen the opportunities "right under their noses." And the obligation.. it isn't only stealing that's unethical: In this case, I'm betting some country or union of countries has demanded that tanzania open their borders and allow corporations from other countries to come in and pillage if they want to be part of something.. like a trade union. There's also the issue of where you see the opportunity: If you see it in someone's backyard there are many tricks you can play to get them to move out so that you can take over. Or you can tell them you found it in their backyard f they're poor, for instance, and offer to help starting a company. |
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what the H? < /sarcasm>* |
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ah fuck it, my entire original post has become so convoluted by my fuck up that I hope you all just ignore them. |
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the board pwn3d Zephyr Twin *keep it coming people. |
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hahaha, yes, yes it did. < / not sarcasm> |
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guys guys i have pole lice |
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"..then they absolutely ought to compensate the Africans. But that's as far as their obligation extends." they are not obliged to do anything. it's common sense that should tell them they ought to help in any way they can. but i don't expect you to get that as you're just plain ignorant. "I myself don't donate any money to Africa because I didn't create it's problems. It's not my responsibility, hence I don't care." what are you 11? you didn't create their problems? did they create them? they've always lived that way and don't have the knowledge or posibilty to turn things around. surely not without help from developed countries. it's exactly why documentaries like this are important. to show ignorant people like you (those who actually do care) how this world is being run. why not help less fortunate if you can? because you didn't create their problems? as for constantly going on about my hypocrisy - this thread isn't about me. i saw the documentary and it made me mad..since there are people on this message board that do care about people i thought i'd mention it and as you see you're pretty much the only one with a different opinion. maybe one day one of us will be in a position to help in some way and it's one of those films that help people from developed countries to understand african problems better. so they don't stay ignorant like governaments want them to be. like you. |
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threadtitle seemed "Darkwing's Nightmare" and i went "aaah yeh, that cartoon rocked ass!" and saying that i descided to look up and watch all the episodes again just to caress my nostalgic grey childhood brainblob. Then, a week later, i'm quite dissapointed it said "darwin" :( |
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Actually, what he's saying is that if he didn't create anyone's problems, they're not his responsibility and thus he doesn't care. So if his mother becomes ill, and it's not something because of something he did to her, he doesn't care. Or wait: Will it feel different to him if it's closer to home? |
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if he's anything like in this thread i doubt he'd care. |
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