 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (2)belb big ...and 367 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614103 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
ehhh.. seeing only comments. too much to read - have to work and stuff. answering the question, i think ukraine is not a police state yet, though some people, i.e. Kiev mayor, are a bit sick, mean and so on and so on. Folks say Russia is already a police state. they may be exaggerating or not or talking only about situation in Moscow. a smiley -> :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
these kinds of videos are very emotionally charging for me, but there is nothing i can do about it. living in red-state texas, my votes don't count for shit -- and if i were to go jump a police officer right now and call him a fascist, charges would be brought up on me, my black ass thrown in jail without a possibility for parole america just does not care, it's complacent. it elects a DOUCHEBAG like george bush and then allows things like the patriot act to pass, etc. 250 million people and not enough of them care enough to do anything about it. myself notwithstanding-- i mean, i would get up and join an uprising, but, i know i would be labeled a 'terrorist', thrown in jail and executed. its that easy! MOST PEOPLE MY AGE who think like i do KNOW THIS. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i suppose we do. apparently we have the highest number of security cameras per head in the world. and there is certainly a police bias towards young people. "youths" and "hoodies" are the prime suspects in everything these days. i have seen a police vauxhall calibra go past me and a group of mates a few times, one time the cop driving it kept shouting "wohoo!" at us as he lapped round town, obviously trying to incite us into egging him or something. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
"If this were nazi germany, in the 1930s, would you want Adolf Hitler to have these pictures?" Haha, very subtle. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this comes as no surprise to me |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
hows the surveillance / political lynchings / corrupt cops over in ireland? probably a lot less of it, in the Republic at least |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Not yet, but we're heading there. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
there was a good documentary about this on dutch tv. with knowledgeble critics and even some scientists. and no whining woman |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that part where she says she doesn't want the government to have this kind of footage of her is kind of odd; why protest if you don't want anyone to know you were at the protest? Aren't protests about showing you are opposed to something? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you know what she means |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
if we get it the way people wants, it will become a police state. most people are fucking idiots and a lot of them votes for the right wing neo-nazis called frp. you know what i mean torbey. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
no, he knows what i mean get it? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah, but I find her reasoning silly. If I was at a protest, the first thing I'd want is for the government to know I was there. I couldn't really go to a protest to show anything but my own opposition, now, could I, so what would matter is that other people knew I was there. However, I don't go to protests because I find it to be a futile way of criticising mostly because you're limited to slogan-like "arguments." |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
haha, yeah, but I don't think frp would be able to implement more police control with their politics.. they're pretending to be all "you know what's better for yourself no matter what you're deciding on." I can only imagine them cutting the funding to education because "you don't need it." I was at that Carl I. debate in samfunnet here in Bergen, and he was all like "nah, we don't care about students" (maybe because education brings insight and insight makes you realise they're candy-coated anuses that haven't been washed; it tastes sweet when you start licking it, but when the coating wears off, you taste the shit). |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
not yet |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Nope. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
OK now I am. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Okay, me too. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No, no, wait...not anymore... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
LINK |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i live in a fireman's state. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Politics |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Agreed. Also, the police's line would be that it's to capture evidence of troublemakers (people who turn protests violent- not organisers) and also to aid recognising them at future riots. Whilst this may not be the only reason for filming, surely it's a justifiable one? I imagine protestors don't want the people who kick off against the police present at "peaceful demonstrations"? Perhaps a culture akin to that of policing football matches would be appropriate? Normal fans (in this case, normal protestors) would be allowed to protest as normal. Hooligans (in this case, protestors who have thrown rocks/smashed up shops/assaulted police etc.) would be recognised and banned from future protests and could be arrested simply for attending them in future? Effectively, by not protesting peacefully, you lose your right to protest at all. Naturally, you'd need to prove someone started violence (and video evidence would be good proof of this); you couldn't just ban people at the drop of a hat. As an aside: I don't agree with a lot of powers that the police have been granted in recent years. I wouldn't, however, describe it as a police state. I can slate the police (and I have done this in court) without fear of any real reprisal, I've also complained about the way officers have behaved to other police. I've not had my door kicked down at dawn and been dragged off to a concentration camp, never to be seen again. So, I'd say whilst our police have disproportiante powers and far too many are cynical with regard to the legal system, it's not a police state here. Yet. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
hmpffffff |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
What are you disagreeing with? Are you saying people have a right to violent protest that the state should tolerate? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well, the cops have all those guns, grenades, tear gas, shields, tanks, helicopters... to defend the state. And I can't tolerate the state. That's why most revolutions are violent. Should revolution not be tolerated? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
They seem really friendly and willing to engange in intellectual debate! BTW: They shoot first. We just replied. With faces covered. Because we're HOOLIGANS! |
||||||||
| Attached picture | |||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
If you engage in violent protest, it seems a bit churlish to complain when the police use force themselves. Yes, the police sometimes shoot first. There are also situations where protestors throw the first stone and to suggest otherwise is to be in denial. IMO If you believe in violent protest, fine, but I think by doing so, you lose your right to complain when the police billy-club you unconcious. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Concerning nonviolence: It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. Malcolm X Long ago I made a song with that quote. They stole my idea for the song in the ending of "V for vendetta". |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Oh don't get me wrong. I certainly believe violence has its place, if only as a last resort. I'm not one of these pansies that would tolerate someone commiting acts of violence towards me and retaliate with only words. I just think it's a 2 way thing: You hate the state, you admit to using violence towards it. Hence you can't reasonably object when it then hates you and uses violence towards you. If your point is that the state "started it", when exactly did the state commit violence towards you and what were the circumstances? I'm not saying it didn't, I'm just interested. BTW I mean violence as in the police gave you a beating for no reason- not some pseudo-intellectual argument such as "restricting my freedom is in itself violent." :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
And well, I don't complain too much. I know what I do and what I face. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
One exaple: Those fuckers in the pic followed our "demonstration" for three hours, at one point (and no violence appeared before that point) they gone in formation, blocked us, and started shooting amazing amounts of tear gas and conclussion grenades at us. One blew ma mate face. I had to take out from there several old hippie ladys that looked terrified and were petrified. Then, well, I started the blowback. With stones. Funny thing, the water turret was used against those who get real close to the cops line, but after breathing tones of tear gas, and with your skin all fucked up, it was quite nice to be showered. They noticed and started shooting the grenades at point blank. I have one as a souvenir. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Oh, and I just remember that during those actions, in some other place around, a dude hanged himself from a bridge with a huge flag or soething (that's not very violent) and a cop went there and cuted the "cable" making him fall from enough meters to send him to the hospital with several damage. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Oh, and I also have been beaten in student protests just because the people in the back pushed us over the cops. And in protests against recent wars, it was very close to explode, but we managed to make a deal with the hippies and stayed calm (calm = eggs and paint balloons). |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
this thread needs Robocop! |
||||||||
| Attached picture | |||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Out of interest, had they, prior to to throwing the grenades etc. offered any warning? For example, something along the lines of, "Disperse now. Anyone remaining here in 2 minutes will be gassed." If not, I agree that's out of order. With the student protest, I can sort of see how that happened. Imagine the police at the back had been pushing the front police forwards and the ones at the front had been barging into your line and knocking into people. I imagine the protestors would have tried to push the police back and then the police would have retaliated. Also, please answer me this honestly; Is there any part of you that enjoys protests? Even if it's an issue you feel strongly about, do you enjoy the protest at all (even a little bit), or do you hate them and grudgingly go due to feelings that it is your civic/moral obligation to go. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
1- No warning offered. That's why some old people and lots of hippies got caught in between... 2- I don't fancy violence. It's more of an anger that moves me. I keep all time in mind why and for whom I fight. And that fuels me enough. I'm a really kind person. Never get enganged in fights with random people. Never beat nobody. In fact, I'm one of those idiots that try to stop fights when arround and end beaten. And even then I stay calm and peacefull. Fight with a hig-on-coke-chav is not for me. Better throw myself in the floor and act like they really hurted me (learnt that in a Batman comic). Violence never takes place in my "usual" life. Never. I'm a shy and introverted dude! BUT, I know what you mean. There's people that fights because they think it makes them cool. People that don't give a fuck what they fight for, but enjoy throwing stones. People whom you could ask why they do it and would have no proper answer. Even people who does it to get girls! I tell you, if you wanna get laid in an anti g8 meeting, easyest way is show them you are a frontliner. But what can I do? There's idiots everywhere. Honestly. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Good answer. I respect the motives you have for doing it. I know not all protestors are like it, but the ones who are in for the buzz as you describe do my head in. They're worse than football hooligans, at least you know with them it's lads having a bit of a laugh at a weekend. The people who choose to wreck peaceful protests by kicking off for fun are worse as they tar all protestors with the same brush and make the general populace anti-protest. When I was a student I was invited to go on a protest. I asked what it was against- was it tuition fees or something not to do with university life. The answer still winds me up, even to this day, "I dunno what it's about mate. Just a trip down to London and maybe mash up some police." It's as if someone turned that Ali G video where he goes to an anti-hunting protest into reality. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
LOL, those dumbass students! They're always the chosen ones to appear on the TV and make everyone seem stupid. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
