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I say YES! |
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I say no. |
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VIM |
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of course not |
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Why not you fascist pig? |
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It has never had a chance. |
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have you ever heard of the political term "divide and conquer"? left or right is a false paradigm to divide the people and play them against each other. don't be fooled! |
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monoid, you seem to be a rather unstable kind of guy in general, so i'm not surprised you're for communism. you should have lived in the soviet union during the cold war, that would probably have changed your mind... i'm sick and tired of these kids going around with Che t-shirts and red star t-shirts not knowing what the hell they are talking about. Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Castro, etc killed more people than any fascist/nazi leader did during the 20th century. i'm NOT defending the nazi creeps. please do your homework before uttering such idiotic statements! |
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I think it deserves another chance, but is gonna be difficult in chile comunism won in democrazy once, but USA managed to stop that and Allende was killed finally the problem is its hard for a country to be comunist alone... I think its needed a group of countries to make it work, cos if not, how cana comunist country grow its economy against all capitalist countries? on the other hand, democrazy is not really prepared for this: imagine england turns comunist now, because a comunist party wins the elections... so they have to change all the economic-social structures of the country... and what if they lose the elections after 4 years? england has to change all its structures again?? sounds difficult |
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I for one believe Che should not be in the same statement you put Mao, Lenin, Stalin... |
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It always descends into state sponsored capitalism and the common man is worse off than in a capitalistic democracy. The nearest we have to a true communistic society is cuba, where, as per usual, they actually run it more like a police state than the alleged 'fascistic/imperialistic/insert derogatory exaggeration here' western countries like Britain/America. We were having a debate about this down the pub a few weeks back and my mate made the (pretty much irrefutable)argument; "For communism to work and even begin to approach "fairness" (even if you turn a blind eye to the immoral nature of errosion of the worth of an individual) it needs to be policed so extensively and strictly that it is: a) Oppresive and b) Extremely beauracratic and expensive to administer. It only needs a few bad apples to cock it up. I'm a cunt, I don't care about other people; I won't work if I get an equivalent quality of life without working. Similarly, I won't work harder/longer if I'm not rewarded. There are enough people like me that large scale communism won't work." Anyone who disagrees should read some books on economics (try Freakanomics) and realise that human beings are, without being generally willing to do "wrong" according to their moral code, suprise suprise, fundamentally selfish. Even if only 25% were selfish (which they are), it wouldn't work. People who cite the kibbutz and other communes as working examples are missing a few key points. A) They exist within liberal, generally capitalistic, democracies and the people who join them all choose to, so they're likely to believe in the ideal/pull their weight. B) Small scale communes work because the people around them are directly hurt by/benefit from a person's indolence, or hard work. As such, it's self policing as people will rip into anyone lying around doing bugger all. When it's the state they're ripping off through doing nothing, the net result to the people around them is at most a 2/3p, they won't mention it. |
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funny how capitalism managed to make us all think that there is no other possible way... suspicious |
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Bang on. I'm matey with a chap who's a maths professor from the former USSR. He's now a British citizen. Unsuprisingly, he finds it amusing/offensive in equal measure when his students (usually upper middle class kids who've not even had a summer job) wear communistic clothing/images. As if they'd know. Oh and for the record he says living under a capitalistic society is better, even for those at the bottom, than a communistic one. If you really believe in communism, go and live in a commune (and be grateful that your capitalistic liberal democracy allows you to), or apply to be a citizen in Cuba. Lee Harvey Oswold thought he was a commie. He went to Russia for a bit, to be a "worker". Unsuprisingly 12 hour shifts of mind numbing, back breaking work in a factory, for a pittance, didn't appeal to him and after a while, came back to America because it offered him a better quality of life. |
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no, all my bets on another eon of sweet american capitalism please |
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then go and live in China for a year, stoopid kid. |
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thread over. |
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oh yeah "american" was not necessary i admit, was a reflex sorry |
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No, it will never work because of passive agressive WORKERS like you. |
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have you been to cuba? the problem with cuba is the same problem as with all the comunism till now, its handled by a dictator... I would like to see a comunist party win in a democratic country, as I said it happened inn chile, but america didnt seem to like that and changed it quickly anyway I have been to cuba and I was impressed byt the people, and many things of the system seemed quite good to me... the problem is they really live in poverty, but I guess the boycot has a lot to do with that too anyway I think castro is a dictator and should be changed... dont get me wrong |
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"the problem with cuba is the same problem as with all the comunism till now, its handled by a dictator... I would like to see a comunist party win in a democratic country" Woha thats nonsense to the extreme |
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oh boy,monoid reels you lot in like a king fisherman |
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well it's not just that it failed and produced some proto-fascist states but also it just doesn't work like that, but organise a world wide vote by all means if you want |
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in what way is it nonsense? |
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that will never happen because very few will volunteerily give up their country to communists! |
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I WOULD! |
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Most of the people who drop the term comunist are the same people that when asked to back it up always say "It looks good on paper, they have just done it with the wrong people" and "your just taught to think that way". Which are both true. But I would rather they not test it out again on the massive scale again. Its totally egotistical and misguided to think that your system might be the best one, thereby forcing it upon large groups of people. The thing that works about capitalism as opposed to communism, is it allows its population the choice what they want, and it will evolve baised upon demands. Communism is rigid, and will generally take a reactionary approach when challenged. And, like Ceri JC said, it requires whole support from every member of its community. If even a couple people choose to work as little as possible in a community where there are no real rewards, it will reduce the moral of the whole group, and lower productivity. You either need to be able to muster enough charisma to have everybody in the palm of your hand, or you have to eliminate the weaker members of that community. The human tenancy is to choose the easier route. |
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hahahaha true |
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Wacht auf, Verdammte dieser Erde, die stets man noch zum Hungern zwingt! Das Recht wie Glut im Kraterherde nun mit Macht zum Durchbruch dringt. Reinen Tisch macht mit den Bedrängern! Heer der Sklaven, wache auf! Ein Nichts zu sein, tragt es nicht länger Alles zu werden, strömt zuhauf! Völker, hört die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale erkämpft das Menschenrecht. Es rettet uns kein höh'res Wesen, kein Gott, kein Kaiser, noch Tribun Uns aus dem Elend zu erlösen können wir nur selber tun! Leeres Wort: des Armen Rechte, Leeres Wort: des Reichen Pflicht! Unmündig nennt man uns und Knechte, duldet die Schmach nun länger nicht! Völker, hört die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale erkämpft das Menschenrecht. Gewölbe, stark und fest bewehret die bergen, was man dir entzog. Dort liegt das Gut, das dir gehöret und um das man dich betrog. Ausgebeutet bist du worden! ausgesogen bis aufs Mark! Auf Erden rings, in Süd und Norden, das Recht ist schwach, die Willkür stark! Völker, hört die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale erkämpft das Menschenrecht. Abscheulich blähn sich diese Götzen, die Herrn von Schacht und Eisenbahn. Sie machten unser Blut zu Schätzen, sie haben unser Gut vertan. In Stahltresoren liegt's vergraben. Wann machen wir die Rechnung glatt? Das Volk will ja nur wiederhaben, was man dem Volk gestohlen hat. Völker, hört die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale erkämpft das Menschenrecht. Die Herrscher machten uns betrunken. Der Zauber muss zu Ende sein. Drum werft ins Heer der Freiheit Funken! Dann schlägt es mit dem Kolben drein. Wenn sie uns zwingen, die Barbaren, Soldat zu spielen noch einmal, wir werden unsre Kugeln sparen für unsren eignen General. Völker, hört die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale erkämpft das Menschenrecht. In Stadt und Land, ihr Arbeitsleute, wir sind die stärks |
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shit, i always forget ! sorry Monoid, i don't really think you're stupid. |
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the problem is its hard for a country to be comunist alone... I think its needed a group of countries to make it work, cos if not, how cana comunist country grow its economy against all capitalist countries? Wasn't that what the USSR was? |
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it's not like football, communism mainly killed itself and not the west, starting out with a great team of democratically elected communists will deteriorate into shit anyway you can't make the conditions perfect to have a communist experiment country succeed the truth is in the middle, vote for the labour party if you want to move your country to the left a bit. communism required a revolution apparantly and that always brings brings crap which you'd only want if things were way worse before |
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"The thing that works about capitalism as opposed to communism, is it allows its population the choice what they want" LOL |
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there's bound to be some useless african country laying around where we can have this experiment |
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I know that sounds funny, but if people don't want something, it doesn't sell, and it will eventually fall out of production. The misconception of people who have unique tastes, is that they seem to think that everybody wants what they want. |
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So Freedom means Freedom to buy what you want...? |
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"The thing that works about capitalism as opposed to communism, is it allows its population the choice what they want" LOL is completely true and why communism fails and we'll have to do with however imperfect, democratic regimes |
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Additionally, if everything is state sponsored, it reduces competition. When companies compete, they are (theoretically) going to make an effort to produce higher quality products, with increasingly efficient techniques. What occures here is two fold. 1-quality of life improves 2-technological advances occur |
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No. Were not talking freedom here. We are talking economics. As long as there is any kind of economics, capitolist or communist, there is not going to be freedom. But look at what generally happens in communism. Everybody lives in a state of poverty, including scientists, laborors, doctors, store clerks and teachers (minus the politicians who live in a state of wealth). In capitalism, at least there is a free market, where people are given the choice to compete for higher paying jobs. |
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Better living through competition? My way is "better living through collaboration". |
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Yes. Well, we do have the choice to set up small communities that sustain themselves on their own. In canada, you can buy a 'lot' of land for two dollars, given that you use only the wood from the land to build your house (you can use metal machinery and electronics from off site, but the wood must be from your land). That land is tax free, and as long as you abide by the laws, you are free to do whatever you want with that land. You do not need to be a canadian resident to do this. |
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And who says anybody is free in communism. They are usually told what job they are supposed to do, and are punished if they don't do it. If everybody got to do what they wanted, then there wouldn't be very many ditch diggers and sewage workers. How would you feel if at the age of 12 your were told that the state determined that you would best be suited cleaning sewage pipes for the rest of your life, and were then trained to do that and only that. |
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comunism is one huge vodka drinking party. |
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I 'm not comunist. Not capitalist. I'm the unabomber. |
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Yeah. I like a nice middle ground too. Canada is a capitolist country with socialist tenancies. The taxes are higher, but everybody gets medical coverage (free if you make under $26k anually) and there is welfare if you become unemployed. It seems to work. But this thread is likely to start more arguments. I feel like a douchebag for going on that little 'rant'. 10-8 communist thread. |
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communism rox. shame it doesnt work. the soviet union was so cool |
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let's turn this thread onto more important issues |
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In 1972 a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court, for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team. |
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du-du-dudu... du-du-duuuuu dududu-du-dudu.. dudu-du-du--duuuu |
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we missed the ra-ta-ta-ta-ta in between!!! |
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can somebody tell me what is "futurama". is it any funny? something like simpsons? |
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