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First off, don't get me wrong I feel very sorry for the people who have suffered due to the hurrican. What pisses me off is that I turned on the radio this morning and they are auctioning off concert tickets in aid of the red cross to help those who are affected. If America can spend a kings randsome invading people in the Middle East they can afford to help their own people. Vancouver has 600 homeless and numerous other problems that the money would be better spent on. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones. But America should refuse all aid and pay for it themselves. |
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the problem with that is that most of the people affected are people on the poverty line and well below it |
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Because people are poor it is no reason to get aid from outside sources. |
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One thing... I'll never call that country *America*... for me, it's United States of America... I don't like to call it *America* or call them *American* since I ALSO LIVE IN THIS CONTINENT... On the other hand, USA may heve 51% of guilt, because they elected that fucking Bush asshole... That rather be spending money on war, he should be managing some other issues... But hey! maybe it's on his genes, his father did it too... But, i feel sorry for whoever lost someone. |
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how would that be a problem? I think what the binary type is saying is - here we have one of the richest nations in the world whos government sees no problem in spending huge amounts of money on its own warmachine besides many other things (I still remember the ridiculous cost of president Bushes inauguration, for example) and why can't this money be used in an emergency like this, why do the people of this nation even have to cough up money etc. |
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it isn't about the American people, it is (yet again) about the current American administration. |
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my point is, when has rich white usa, done a thing for them... |
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So everyone gets upset that the United States isn't providing "enough money" to help out the Tsunami issue .... then when a weather event like this happens to us, everyone looks at us and kinda goes "damn, that sucks" Brilliant... Thanks guys! Thanks 010101, that's right ... we don't need your help. We don't need your shelter or blankets ... nope. Let's refuse all aid. Tell that to the million people without power, and food, and shelter. You really understand the situation, don't you? Auctioning off concert tickets for charitiy/aid makes you sick? Why weren't you ranting about that Live 8 concert then??? Hippo CRIT |
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the national guard (which ordinarily would provide disaster assistance) has been significantly weakened by sending reserves to iraq. in addition, money that should have been used to prevent hurricane damage and flooding was instead diverted to iraq. yes, there is tremendous wealth in the united states, when i've encountered even the fringes of this wealth i've been staggered beyond comprehension. more importantly, however, this wealth is controlled by a very small number of people. we little people are not allowed to write checks from that account. |
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Quite Unfortunetely, this isn't a situation you can "just throw money at" the U.S. is wealthy? Ok, but just throwing $100 bills around isn't going to bring back millions of homes overnight. It's a bigger picture than you could imagine...and yet you stereotype "Americans" on having a narrow viewpoint ... when you yourself can't even grasp the magnitude of this event. Good day ... |
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"So everyone gets upset that the United States isn't providing "enough money" to help out the Tsunami issue .... then when a weather event like this happens to us, everyone looks at us and kinda goes "damn, that sucks" Brilliant..." yeah that was for pretty much the same reason though - the US has a SHITLOAD of money. why wouldn't they help the tsunami victims? same goes for the hurricane victims - why not spend some of (for example) the defensive budget on that? I'm not saying the US should refuse outside aid, I'm sure a lot of governments would like to help. |
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instead of saying "good day" and running off, why not try and enlighten us to the magnitude then? |
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thats a reasonable argument and yes the us does overspend on war, but nothing could count for this destruction. The previous hurricane to this one was more powerful but cause minimal damage (in relation) |
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What else is there for me to discuss? I'm not there, I'm not going to continue to speak for others who are dying by the minute (literally) because of lack of medical supplies, or oxygen, etc... You can't just throw money at this situation right now ... Supplies that are "already made" are what these people need ... not to mention cooperation from the people ... but of course things are going to fall apart ... you have people dying to survive. Obviously, any man is going to loot in order to provide food for his family. He has no other choice right now. It's sheer survival and I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone. The worst part is it's still going on right now and I can't even enjoy my lunch because of it. Adding insult to misery, this German guy is throwing it in our face saying it's our fault for the greenhouse gases and the sort? Sure it will have an effect but to blatently come out and say we directely caused this hurriance? Yeah way to go. Can't even hold your mouth shut until the dead are buried and the alive have been rescued. Awesome job. Point fingers and rub-in-face because a hurricane hit us. I still don't understand the whole point of "refusing aid" Quite frankely, if we did refuse aid, i would expect some of you to come here and say "Oh, see, the Americans are TOO GOOD for our aid ... they are too high on their fucking horses to accept aid from us, you fucking americans!!!" I hope you see this angle ^^ |
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I don't think that you understand my point. If a country can afford to spend this on a war, why does it need aid. |
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Re-read my post. Please. |
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A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. Oscar Wilde |
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I think the point is that the red cross auction thing is generating money, something which the USA has lots of. People aren't bidding with bags of food or medical supplies. So the auction generates money, which then funds physical things to help. Alternatively the USA could just pay for them itself with is vast sums of money. The reason people helped in the tsunami was that the people and countries affected are not rich. The USA is rich and therefore shouldn't need handouts of money. I beleive this is the point being made. |
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What German pointed out the US' ruinous disregard for the environment may have come back and bitten it in the arse? I'd like to read that, linky? |
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Nail. Head. We have a winner. |
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Well, I guess that now it's time to show the USA you're better and at least offer help, right? |
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"So the auction generates money, which then funds physical things to help. Alternatively the USA could just pay for them itself with is vast sums of money. The reason people helped in the tsunami was that the people and countries affected are not rich. The USA is rich and therefore shouldn't need handouts of money. I beleive this is the point being made. " I seriously don't understand how some of you people just assume we are all wicked rich. Do you know how poor that area is ??? Vast sums of money??? Yeah, we (err, my current government) spends a lot of defense (more than anyone else) but to assume we have $ coming out of our ears ... wow that really disgusts me. Funny how the people saying we have wicked amounts of money and should pay for this no problem,,,, well no one saying that is from the U.S. (nor lives here) Hmm, gee that doesn't make sense. Are you assuming now? Have you been to the U.S. or are you falling acceptable to the same media reports that you mock! |
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I'm not better in any way, I didn't help the victims of tsunami in any way. |
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any way |
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Yes that area is poor, but the country, the USA, you know that big chunk of the north american continent is rather rich. You can't claim it it poor, you really can't. It's in the G8 FFS, the 8 richest and most powerful nations on earth. Maybe you can go on a tour of fort knox and report back just how poor old uncle sam is. I think there should be an auction to generate the money so someone from this poor country can get a plane ticket to holland and see how sea walls are really made! |
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We're not talking about that area: We're talking about the USA as a whole. I was under the impression that the 'seperate' states were meant to be united and so the real issue is whether or not the states as a whole are rich or not, which they are. QRDL: Your "Well, I guess that now it's time to show the USA you're better and at least offer help, right?" sentiment is admirable, but I don't feel it'd actually change their perception/future behaviour. I do feel we shouldn't make the people who are at the thin end of the wedge suffer any more than they already have by refusing aid, but it should be given on the understanding that the USA as a whole will pay the money back. |
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1) a tour of fort knox? then you don't understand the whole POINT of fort knox and the economy ... wholly shit did you really just say that?? sigh, 2) vasts sums of money ... a dollar $ figure doesn't solve this i don't understand how you don't comprehend this we need aid in the form of -large machinery -food -medical supplies -HUMANS (medical staff) -national guard type efforts and machinery/personell -people to restore order this isn't a DOLLAR FIGURE MOMENT that comes later this,,,today,,,this second,,, is an AID moment and to say we should deny any aid?? what the fuck is that about ... if you're family were stuck in their third floor home waiting to be rescued, and your mother or whomever needed medical supplies or she'll die in the next day or so ... would you deny her/them the aid and support to get them out of there? Digusting. |
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The bigger the help from the outside world is, the smaller will the one provided by the government seem. Is this gramatically correct? So, if you hate GW Bush, give your money to me and I promise to take part in an auction. |
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no one is saying that the people should pay for it, they are saying that the government should pay for it. |
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^^^ just like that, the money figure comes later on. Today, isn't a $$ moment ... That process STARTS today but it isn't the deying moment. The aid is what is important right now. Eventually the money will be needed (once everyone has been resecued) |
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mylittlesister, the government gets the money from the people you understand the word, tax, no? |
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NO ONE'S SAYING THAT! 010101's talking about monetary aid, not physical aid. |
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QRDL: Your "Well, I guess that now it's time to show the USA you're better and at least offer help, right?" sentiment is admirable, but I don't feel it'd actually change their perception/future behaviour. I think it's even adorable And I don't believe you don't get elusive's point. Can't block that breach with bills, can you? As for gathering money by selling concert tickets, this isn't very logical, but it doesn't make me sick. |
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OK, everybody understands his point, I rest my case. Treat my posts as non-existent. |
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when i said "people" i meant the people affected by the hurricane. |
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G W Bush: "It is so devastating that it is hard to describe it. 9/11 was a man made attack. This was a natural disaster" 9/11... um, ... terrible floods... but um, remember, 9/11, America... 9/11. .... awful business... um... but 9/11. Everything can be directly attributable to, or comparable with.... 9/11. |
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yeah I realised as soon as I posted that the whole Fort Knox thing was rubbish, but hey who cares, I can't be bothered to continue in this because I will only end up saying how I really don't care....at all. If the USA can't cope with this, then its screwed. I could quite easily hijack IRAQ/global warming/anything, but I'm not going to mention these. All I'm gunna say is that I couldn't care less about what has happened to the USA, surely for such a powerful country this should be a piece of piss to sort out. Just wait till Cumbre Vieja falls into the sea, then you will be in REAL trouble. |
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"I seriously don't understand how some of you people just assume we are all wicked rich. Do you know how poor that area is ??? Vast sums of money??? " Talking about the government's vast sums of money that it's squandered. Jesus Christ. And let me say one thing; you're digging a hole for yourself if you compare this to the catastrophe that happened with the Asian tsunamis. You obviously have no idea of the scale of the latter, and the numbers of dead, compared to the numbers of dead in your states... 4 States wrecked? Consider about the number of islands literally flattened when the tsunami hit. |
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hahahaha yes... "WE SHALL NEVER FORGET". it rings true. your government isn't going to let you forget, or ease the fear, you fucking sheep. |
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as easy as that... MONEY PAYS FOR IT ALL.. aid people (medical staff) etc... YES you need money (eventhough it seems you have it)... but come on... economy doesn't work like that, it's not like a country has its money under their matress... this world works with loans, exchanges, and (hopefully) charity... |
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Also, elusive, what started this rant was the fact that some canadian radio show was .. blah blah blah. basically they're going to be donating cash. not aid. you're right that aid (in the forms you've described), is what's needed now. but that's not what's going to be donated. so 010101 is perfectly untouched by all your commentary and scathing remarks. when he said america doesn't deserve aid from Canada, he meant monetary aid. |
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I don't mean to be condescending, but by, "And I don't believe you don't get elusive's point. Can't block that breach with bills, can you?" do you mean you recongise that I can see his point? It's just that I notice you're from Poland and in some languages other than English (I don't know if Polish is one) a double negative doesn't mean a positive. |
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Ceri JC, you understood well. And yes, Polish is the one of these languages. You can say "nie mam nic" which directly translates into "I don't have nothing", but in fact means "I have nothing". |
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Don't blame Americans, it's the French's fault as usual. They built the first dyke 300 years ago when the city was founded- not only sealing off the mississippi, but also sealing their doom because without silt from a flooding river New Orleans was an accident waiting to happen. |
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I've missed you |
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me? Stop- people will talk. |
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You guys need to understand that you hate our government. The people being affected get screwed by that same government daily. The normal folk that you meet are low/middle class. Were not all flossing around in bentlys. The rich dont count nor do they care i am sure. Those people that are dying are the people that have struggled day in and day out. Its not all one big party there for all your foreigners who like to stereotype based on the news coverage they here or their favorite talk radio discussion program. This was a stupid fucking thread and you guys are going to continue to debate this? Its fucking sickening. Hats off to elusive for the "cant we wait until the dead are buried" comment. I hate how non americans view this shit! the public cant ever have control anymore. Too many people dont care and lack knowledge about those in office. This irritates me. I am disappointed. |
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I think the point trying to be made here is; If america can pull an extremely large wad of immaterial money out of its collective ass to fund a war, it can probably do the same to save its own people. I'm not saying that people outside the states shouldn't donate, it's just that they probably shouldn't need to. |
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sorry brian, but i think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. |
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well said, my point exactly |
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