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 Now online (2)big recycle ...and 652 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614121 Today 4 Topics 127542 |
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i remember someone telling me that drugs such as cannabis, mushrooms, etc are illegal because they encourage incompetence, and in a capitalist society, competence is very much needed in order to work. a harshly marxist/anti-capitalist view, but still a view none the less. |
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I think the argument was sales and useage was going up, and really, these things can be kind of dangerous if you take too many. Still i'd like the choice to choose myself so I dunno. If I was PM i'd probably want drugs "controlled" in some way, and the only option for that would be to tax and sell drugs legally with age restrictions etc, and that would be political suicide. |
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"then when those kids grow up and see their best friend do coke at a party and he doesn't die or go crazy he just has fun, and you've created a kid who will discard everything you told him about drugs." I don't do coke, but that's basically what happened with me and weed. |
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the most important thing to grapple when legalising drugs is teaching people when these drugs can become dangerous. |
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you can see from what country you are..we've a great understanding on how to handle drug and drug(ab)use. The world should listen to us. |
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if they banned people from having friends, then there wouldn't be any drug problems. it's always a friend that gets you involved! |
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but as we know from prohibition, banning it wouldn't actually stop people from having friends. It would sinply stimulate the creation of a mafia bent on controlling the supply of unregulated, homemade friends (called bathtub-friends) that are made in underground labs. |
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simply* |
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Shroom (or acid) flashbacks when you're in control of a motor vehicle = very dangerous. The fact that they can occur so long after taking them means that IMO, if you have driving licence, you shouldn't take them. |
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i would use mushrooms only in a forest of guatemala with the help of old shaman |
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mushrooms do not cause "flashbacks". i have serious doubts about lsd causing "flashbacks" also. i think they are likely a psychological manifestation akin to post traumatic stress disorder. in other words, the experience can trigger a stress reaction in some people severe enough to produce recurrent flashbacks. it's also worth pointing out that few people who do take lsd report experiencing "flashbacks." there is an unbelievable quantity of propaganda and disinformation that the united states government has fed to the public over the years. an article in life magazine appeared in the late sixties in which a story was recounted as fact to demonstrate the danger of lsd. according to the article, a young man had taken acid, came to believe that he was an orange, and had to be institutionalized because he was constantly gripped by the fear that he would be juiced. if you will believe that, what else will you believe? it's fair also to acknowledge that i've done a lot more research on this subject than the average person. |
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"it's fair also to acknowledge that i've done a lot more research on this subject than the average person." if you will believe that, what else will you believe? |
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lastly, knowing that most people use alcohol responsibly, i'm willing to accept that my freedom to partake in alcohol means accepting the risk that someone else will abuse it. given the choice between 1) putting all responsible users of mushrooms (or cannabis) in prison along with the irresponsible, or forcing them to pay steep fines and labeling them criminals, or 2) accepting the fact that the price of my freedom means that others may abuse their freedom, i'll gladly choose 2). |
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fortunately for you, littlesister, i have much less incentive to deceive you. or do i... |
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the problem is, people blame intoxicating substances for causing bad/anti-social behaviour, when really it is people that cause this behaviour. these substances simply aid the release of these behaviours, as if they were blocked the freud's theorised 'superego' (part of the mind that deals with morality). |
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if that is the case, then is it such a great idea to legalise substances that cause this perception of what is moral to disintegrate in the user's mind? |
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"it's fair also to acknowledge that i've done a lot more research on this subject than the average person. " Have you actually done any meaningful, independantly financed and peer-verified research on the subject? For example, written did you write your doctorate on it, which has since been published? Or, have you just spoken to a few people who have taken shrooms, had the odd experiment with it yourself, done a bit of googling on the matter, read a couple of counter-culture books and hence consider yourself 'better informed' on the subject than the typical 'man on the street'? If, as I suspect, it's the latter, your 'research' falls into the latter category, your claims are not much better than the (admittedly ludicrous) article from Life. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but your statement suggests you're some all-knowing medical expert who is one of the leading authorities on the matter. I have been lead to believe (and I think it's generally accepted amongst medical practitioners) that any powerful hallucinogen (shrooms, lsd, salvia, etc.) can cause flashbacks, even though comparatively few users will experience them. Please explain how your research somehow overrides this established viewpoint, other than the usual hippy/conspiracy theorist, "It's governments lying to us, man. They want to keep you as an obedient little slave, etc. etc." |
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we all just need bathtub-friends. |
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boy, you really make a guy want to have a civilized conversation with you. i should've known that simply pointing out that i've actually studied the issue formally would result in some asshole getting his panties in a bunch because he thinks someone out there on the internet thinks he knows more than him. fucking lighten up, and if you want a civilized answer to your questions, post civilized questions. kee ryst! |
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can't we all just get a-bong? |
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The question was both serious and civil. Having re-read your posts in this thread, there was nothing to suggest you had studied this formally, or had any good reason behind your claims, hence my post. The reason I 'got my panties in a bunch', as you put it, was precisely because you didn't point this out. Saying something as vauge as , "it's fair also to acknowledge that i've done a lot more research on this subject than the average person. " rather than, "I've studied this formally and my own opinion of the matter, based on what I've covered is..." is inviting rebuttal, if you want civilised debate. If you're going to 'correct' someone's point of view, at least give some rationale to back it up, not something that amounts to, 'I know better than you'. Your response to my fairly innocuous post (in which I even apologised for the fact that on reading it, it came across as more aggressive/confrontational than I had intended) is also rather hypocrital: Why not be the better man and show me up by posting a civilised answer to my uncivilised one. I'd say you were the one at fault here... |
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Anyway, verbal riposte aside, I'd be interested to know the (presumably sound) reasons/literature that suggest that they are a lot loss harmful than perceived. I tend to keep an open mind on these sort of things and if there's compelling evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly change my point of view. Again, please don't see this as an attack, I'm genuinely interested in why you feel this way about shrooms. Ta. |
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i'm not sure that people have a clear enough perception of what is moral in the first place. |
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i think that should read: "i'm not sure that a significant minority of people...." |
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your post was not civil. i hardly think my exasperation makes me a hypocrite. you have changed your tune and have adopted a less confronational/insult-oriented approach, yet cannot resist projecting a label of "fault" on to me. for the record, i don't have any interest in finding fault. i only intended to acknowledge that i had taken a personal interest in the subject. while i have studied the subject formally, i have no intention of playing "authority" in regard to the subject. i would just as soon leave it at that. if you take a personal interest in the subject, there is an enormous body of literature, and maybe reading it will reinforce your current position, and maybe reading it will cause you to question whether the risks associated with mushroom experiences are significant enough to warrant the threat of prison to discourage their use. i don't think you'll find a definitive "save vs unsafe" answer. i don't think you'll be satisfied with any "evidence" that i might present. i'm not a "hippy," or "conspiracy theorist," or an indiscriminate consumer of illicit drugs. i'm interested in promoting freedom of mind, freedom of consciousness, and the open acceptance of all the associated risks and benefits and consequences. i believe a price of our freedom is bearing the abuse of freedom. ta |
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regardless of how bad a substance is, why should any government have the right to try to protect me from myself? |
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because you elected them to do so. |
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it's all your fault for electing them shope |
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not only hurt yo'self, yessir, a massa |
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oh, no, wait.. you're american.. can't remember how it was over there... something with your employer paying insurance or something? |
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i voted libertarian. :) |
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i didn't vote :) |
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yes, but that's a failure of socialism that the illegalization of drugs only further complicates. :) |
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more the fool... |
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hahahhah! I would hardly call the welfare state a failure |
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but the election was between a giant douche and a turd sandwich! |
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hmm, that sounded a bit harsh, but still... |
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no, i wouldn't say that either. but, i also wouldn't say it's perfect. |
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can a country call a vote of no confidence? |
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well, it was a combination of me not liking either candidate (I hate bush with a passion but lets face it, kerry didnt have a clue), as well as there being an error in my voter registration and it not being completed on time. I blame the system. :D |
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i'm still confused as to why plaidzebra has a problem with ceri's posts, however i feel his own words give away his feelings: "he thinks someone out there on the internet thinks he knows more than him." |
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fwiw, i didn't see ceri's post as aggressive either. ::shrugles:: |
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you know, you can address me directly, littlesister. if it means anything to you, your characterization of my "feelings" is not accurate. there was one post by ceri that i had a problem with. ceri took "done a lot more research than the average person" and twisted it into "you think you're an all knowing medical expert." he suggested my research consisted of reading a few internet articles, interviewing some stoner pals and taking drugs. he was an inflammatory jerk about it, i thought. that's how i felt about it. |
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i am apparently, however, not above misreading intent and overreacting... |
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