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 Now online (1)big ...and 474 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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hmm I was just wondering idly what your views are on the English reformation during the reign of Henry VIII and mainly whether the common folk of England realised that they were living during a cultural and religious revolution...? ok, the truth. CS2x and I have to write a massive essay on this for Tuesday and have exams tomorrow so we dont have much time. Help... |
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the saying "grave mistake" dates back to tudor times when anne boleyn was heard to have said "i have a headache, henry" to which the reply was "don't worry dear, i'll cure it for you" |
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thanks.....although what we really need to know is info regarding whether normal people realised what was going on... I cant find any links and am having a mini breakdown -_- |
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Please don't mention me again in one of your threads to do with essays, exams, or work. I don't like looking at my username in such contexts. |
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yeah but its true mate...we're gonna need all the help we can get now from whoever. I've lost all my notes @_@ |
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You're like pinky and the brain. |
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wikipedia |
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which ones which? thanks redrum :) |
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you can be pretty damned sure that the people living during (just about any) revolution of this type have no idea that they are living during it, as the revolution isn't given its name before after it is over... it often happens so slowly that no-one knows it has happened before it is over. |
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You're clearly Pinky - the Brain wouldn't have to ask. |
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Heh, it's more that I have a music A level tomorrow which I'm worried about. History can wait. :) |
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*narf* what are we gonna do tonight Brain? |
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thank you very much! Thats a good point to start me off *thumbs up* |
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are you actually from jordon? |
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it's Jordan. Nope sorry to disappoint you, I am from merry Londinium (as the romans liked to call it). Are you really from 'a place on'? |
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this thread convinces me more and more that weasle and cs2x are one and the same. fucking hell. |
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I happen to be in his bloody history class, and he decided to make a thread about the set work. I considered not replying because of the possibility of claims like yours, but realised that mods can check IP adresses. |
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why are you the only person who thinks we're the same person on a dupe account? We're just in the same history class and are both having problems with a piece of work, I don't think your contribution to the thread really helped >:( |
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Yo Delerious, I think I might be late wid this pile o crap. But I hope it helps, mate. The so called “ignorant commoners” of this period would probably have had their daily lives altered considerably by the upheaval such as the anglicised prayers and split-loyalties over faith, perhaps causing different “camps” within the towns etc. Especially as during this time religion still held greater sway over the general populace and was something that people felt strongly enough to dissent over, as accusations of heresy and damnation were still strong enough to get people in fear of their souls, choosing between papacy and Protestantism was quite an important one requiring a choice of allegiance: with pope or state: In this period, when religion played such an integral part in both the lives of individuals and the daily life of the whole society, the Pope's authority over the Church throughout Christendom was still a very real and effective power. Nor was it ever really clear just where the Pope's authority ended and the King's began. Furthermore, churchmen who owed allegiance to the Pope recognized that as Englishmen, Frenchmen, Portuguese, etc., they also owed some allegiance to their King or prince. Matters were made more difficult because the clergy were the only large body of educated and literate men in Europe. The Emperors, Kings and princes relied on them to handle many important jobs in their governments. Monarchs, always being short of money, found that an easy way of paying a loyal clerical servant was to persuade the Pope to appoint him to a wealthy position in the Church. The cleric would then continue to work for the King while collecting the money, though neglecting to do the work, attached to the Church position. Thus the cleric's duties to the Pope and the Church would clash with his ambitions for advancement by the King, and usually in such cases ( the King being nearer ) the Church was left to suffer and decay. (cont...) |
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Because of the conflicts of interests which are described above, it quite often happened that the Pope's idea of what was good for the Church in a particular kingdom conflicted with what the King wanted for reasons of state. Such conflicts were regular features of the political life of the Middle Ages, and were usually solved by hard bargaining. If a King was determined not to give way in the struggle, as was Henry II against Thomas a Becket and the Papacy, and King John against Stephen Langton and Pope Innocent III, the clash became a full scale trial of strength, and the Pope usually won. The Papacy's power to excommunicate whole countries, which were made up of multitudes of devout Christians, inevitably put the Kings in a weak position. Princes, Kings and even Emperors reluctantly seeking forgiveness from a victorious Papacy were unusual, but not unknown, sights during the Middle Ages. The Reformation that took place so swiftly in England during the reign of Henry VIII looked at first as though it might have been just another of these clashes; with Henry wanting a divorce from his wife, Catherine of Aragon, who had not given birth to a son and heir for the throne, and the Pope refusing to allow the divorce. But a number of factors combined to make this clash with the Papacy very different from any of the others which had occurred earlier in English history. Ideas such as those of Martin luther, however, had been around for a while so the change was perhaps not wholly unexpected, but the upheaval was intensified as people decided it was time to wage their own private religious wars against the increasingly corrupt catholic church. The new “protesting” church was in fact formed without henry VIII’s support, as he still believed in Catholic doctrine, just simply not recognizing the Pope’s authority. (cont...) |
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The choice between damnation of soul after leaving the established religion that had been in place since they could remember, or to show allegiance to their king and try to avoid a charge of treason? An important decision, but probably the role of the ordinary man would be to try and keep his head down and try not assert himself as having too strong a view as those that did felt the consequences. An example of the uncertainty of the situation and conflicting messages from the state would be the Pilgrimage of Grace in 1536, a peaceful PROTESTANT march. Henry had over 200 of the leaders executed. Many were dissatisfied with the church as it was: Another crucial difference between this sixteenth century Church/State clash and earlier ones was the fact that, while in earlier times the majority of the population had been more loyal to the Church than to the King, this time the situation was reversed. Whereas in the twelfth century the allegiance of the. people had forced the second Henry to do penance at the tomb of Becket, the eighth Henry found his subjects ready and willing to accept an attack on the Church. The reason for this willingness among ordinary people to see the Churth attacked and reformed Lay in the condition of the Church itself, and reflected the general dissatisfaction felt about it. The clergy were more unpopular in the early part of the sixteenth century than ever before in England. Over the centuries the Church had received money and land as gifts from rich and pious patrons, usually left in wills. By the sixteenth century the Church's wealth was enormous, and generally felt to be far in excess of any services they did for the community in return Clerics seemed increasingly to be living a life of ease and luxury compared to those for whom they were supposed to be providing an example of sanctity and poverty. (cont...) |
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The ease and luxury were bad enough by themselves, but when they were combined with vices of sloth, sensuality and ignorance as well, as indeed they so often were, people became doubly angry. One of the clerical privileges which deeply annoyed lay people was the clergy's advantage before the law. Anyone who could prove he was a cleric could claim to be tried in a Church Court, where the punishments were invariably much lighter than those of lay courts. Thus if a cleric committed a crime against a layman, even murder, it seemed as though he was getting off almost scot-free, whereas a layman might well be executed f or a similar crime. Kings and princes also resented the fact that profits from Church Courts went to the Church rather than to the royal exchequer. The main complaint against the lower clergy was their ignorance and inability to do their job properly. The sacraments would be administered to the poor with a chanted rigmarole that must have increased ideas about the Mass being magic and so heightened the superstition of the uneducated; the prayers would be mumbled by a man who had forgotten a Latin he never understood, and the poor might never have received any coherent or intelligent instruction in their faith. The lower clergy's inadequate education and general unsuitability were ridiculed by leading laymen like Thomas More and Erasmus, while the privileges they could nevertheless claim earned the resentment and hatred of an increasing number of the population. (cont... yawn) |
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The extensive propaganda campaign employed as described below indicates the general levels of social upheaval and threat: In the early days of the Reformation as his patron Thomas Cromwell strove to popularize Henry VIII's position against Rome, Richard Morison, wrote a discourse for the King focusing on the law as "the piller that . . . holdeth up euery commen welthe" and arguing that other rulers who had committed their laws to writing and codification had caused their "power to waxe great myghty and strong." In attempting to persuade Henry to do the same he linked a monarch's power with his subject's knowledge of the law and spoke of "the euyll that cometh of ignoraunce, and of the goode that cometh of knowlage." He observed that in order to establish and maintain its power, the rituals and beliefs of the Catholic church were "inculked & dryuen into the peoples heddes, tought in scoles to children, plaied in plaies before the ignoraunt people, songe in mynstrelles songes, and bokes in englisshe purposely to be deuysed to declare the same at large." Rather than simple suppression and prohibition to counteract these methods, Morison argued that "a sick commen wealthe wolde be ordred euen as men ordre ther bodye whan it is diseased. He that hathe an ache in his arme myndyng to put it awaie dothe not cut of tharme, but labourith to expell the ache preseruyng the arme for many good and necessary vses." He advocated the adoption of similar strategies including triumphs, processions, bonfires and the noise of "all kyndes of instrumentes" to honour the successes of the King and his predecessors. With reference to the plays of Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham, he argued, "Howmoche better is it that those plaies shulde be forboddenn and deleted and others deuysed to setforth and declare lyuely before the peoples eies, the abhomynation and wickednes of the bisshop of Rome, . . . and to declare and open to them thobedience that your subiectes by goddes and mans lawes owe vnto your maiestie. (co |
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Into the commen people thynges sooner enter by the eies, then by the eares: remembryng moche better that they see, then that they heare." Morison clearly entertained no doubts that the response of the "ignoraunt people" would correspond with the intentions behind the propaganda, and numerous scholarly studies have argued that Henry, subsequent Tudor and Stuart monarchs, and members of their court did employ the mechanisms of spectacle and theatrical patronage as advocated by Morison--not only to promote the political and religious beliefs associated with the Reformation but also to establish a public image and demonstrate their power and authority. The work of Paul Whitfield White, for instance, reveals the extent to which theatre was employed as Protestant and political propaganda under Henry VIII and Edward VI. Yet despite the demonstrable contribution of such propaganda to the new hegemony of the Reformation, circumstances leading up to July of 1553 conspired to usher in correction and reversal in what historians have identified as "the only successful sixteenth-century rebellion," a high point of tension in a century generally characterized by crises on a number of fronts. (cont... shit) |
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So basically to sum them up the good old commoners were: William Melton, Chancellor of York Minster, Sermon to Ordinands (1510): "For it is from this stupidity and from this darkness of ignorance that there arises that great and deplorable evil throughout the whole Church of God, that everywhere throughout town and countryside there exists a crop of oafish and boorish priests, some of whom are engaged on ignoble and servile tasks, while others abandon themselves to tavern-haunting, swilling and drunkenness. Some cannot get along without their wenches; others pursue their amusement in dice and gambling and other such trifling all day long. There are some who waste their time in hunting and hawking, and so spend a life which is utterly and wholly slothful and irreligious even to advanced old age. This is inevitable, for since they are all completely ignorant of good literature, how can they obtain improvement or enjoyment in reading and study?" William Melton, Chancellor of York Minster, Sermon to Ordinands (1510): "For it is from this stupidity and from this darkness of ignorance that there arises that great and deplorable evil throughout the whole Church of God, that everywhere throughout town and countryside there exists a crop of oafish and boorish priests, some of whom are engaged on ignoble and servile tasks, while others abandon themselves to tavern-haunting, swilling and drunkenness. Some cannot get along without their wenches; others pursue their amusement in dice and gambling and other such trifling all day long. There are some who waste their time in hunting and hawking, and so spend a life which is utterly and wholly slothful and irreligious even to advanced old age. This is inevitable, for since they are all completely ignorant of good literature, how can they obtain improvement or enjoyment in reading and study?" THE END. AND ALL USELESS. |
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BTW, I ain't a complete spaz. I had to do something similar so just C&P ed da file. I deleted all of my more refined stuff I'm afraid, but that was 1 set of notes that narrowly escaped da recycle bin. |
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what, something weird is going on here..... |
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lol |
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B7's all around. We'll sort this out next week. Consider this time that can be used to study. |
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thank you! |
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I love you walnut! You've really saved my bacon! wow! :) |
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well.... it's pretty damn obvious who this 'Walnut' character is, isn't it! welcome Richard. okay, first question: what does xmd5a mean and why? |
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How did you make the sounds in that one shit trk? |
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I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific. WAY more specific. |
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Right, that's that sorted then. I guess I can't be so angry about this thread after all. I find nothing more dull then writing about tudor history. |
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Richard? *looks baffled but with a big grin on his face as Walnut has saved him and drenched his wasted body from the depths of despair.* |
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he has drenched your body? what the..? |
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perhaps I meant 'wrentched' sorry I was having a poetic moment because when I say all that chunk of text it was as if I had a vision into Heaven. It was good. |
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are you sure you don't mean dragged? |
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WELCOME ..TO JURASSIC PARK! |
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maybe you mean dredged? either dragged or dredged would be better than 'wrentched', which isn't even a real word, I think and it kind of scares me. |
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this thread is much like a strap on cock |
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you're the expert. |
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This, coming from the guy who says "noone". |
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yeah, I too often find that real words are better to use in conversations... |
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In the past, strap-on dildos were typically flimsy all-in-one dildo/harness contraptions, usually made of elastic, which proved uncomfortable for the wearer (imagine the toy snapping back onto your body when your partner unclenches it!). Today’s harnesses come in a much greater variety of styles, including sexy leather or sporty webbing. They’re fully adjustable, so you can get a secure fit, regardless of your body type. |
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A thread about tudor history morphs into information about strap-on dildos. One reason why I love xltronic. |
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This coming from the guy who puts a comma after "This". |
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